Can you really live by Sola Scriptura?

[LoveGodsWord]

Who's talking about "no Word"? And where did you get the right or notion to limit God's word solely to that which was written?

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Anything that is not scripture is not always Gods' Word and therefore not profitable. Even if God speaks to you directly then direct revelation must always be tested by the scriptures to see if it is from God or not from God. Therefore the scriptures are the only test and rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true *John 17:17.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Anything that is not scripture is not always Gods' Word and therefore not profitable. Even if God speaks to you directly then direct revelation must always be tested by the scriptures to see if it is from God or not from God. Therefore the scriptures are the only test and rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true *John 17:17.

Ok, do you have any views on the mother of God, the blessed Virgin Mary?

Support them with scripture please and be specific

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Ok, do you have any views on the mother of God, the blessed Virgin Mary?

Support them with scripture please and be specific

No not really. She was blessed above all woman Luke 1:42 for being the mother of Jesus. That is about it. Not much more to add here.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I would say the Bible gives us various things to hold to as traditions. And what can happen is ones can argue back and forth and make their claims to go by God's word; yet, they do not practice possibly some of the most valuable traditions which they could be doing. For just one example >

"Do all things without complaining and disputing, that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world," (in Philippians 2:13-16)

According to this > by not complaining or arguing, we can "become blameless and harmless" and "without fault", right "in the midst of" this evil world's "crooked and perverse generation". So, I would think any group who knows how God is able and knows how He has us love with one another would have this tradition of not arguing and complaining. God commands this; so He expects this; and this is a basic of how He has us relating.

But there are ones who call attention away from such basic and good things which are possible with God in His love; and instead ones spend much time and attention on comparing themselves with other groups . . . including more attention to traditions which are not guaranteed to make us "blameless and harmless" and "without fault" right in this evil world's "crooked and perverse generation".

But in God's love we succeed in not abusing each other with our arguing and complaining, and its bad example which can ruin children from knowing how to love. Yet, this is not a well-known tradition and a priority of the attention of a number of groups . . . while they claim to be sola scriptura or not sola scriptura.

I see what you did there.

 

[fhansen]

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Anything that is not scripture is not always Gods' Word and therefore not profitable. Even if God speaks to you directly then direct revelation must always be tested by the scriptures to see if it is from God or not from God. Therefore the scriptures are the only test and rule of faith as to what is true and what is not true *John 17:17.

That verse only tells us that Old Testament writings are profitable; it’s not some definitive statement about Scripture trumping anything else. And most of that Scripture was orally transmitted for centuries, incidentally. And even then Scripture must be interpreted in light of the church’s historical understanding and guidance-to avoid all the confusion and disagreement that reigns today among those going by Scripture alone. This, again, is where Christ’s disciples could explain scripture to those who couldn’t fully discern its truths on their own, such as Ellen White, for example.

 

[chevyontheriver]

According to the scriptures there can only be unity for those in the faith who believe and follow what Gods Word says (see John 10:26-27; Romans 10:17). To be "in the faith" means to believe and follow what Gods' Word says.

Well of course.

There is not unity though for those who say they believe and follow what God's Word says. So are they 'out of the faith' rather than 'in the faith'? They follow Sola Scriptura, or they say they do.

My point is claiming to follow Sola Scriptura is different than following God's Word. Which is to say claiming to follow Sola Scriptura is rather meaningless because the adherents are neither united, nor do they agree on what God's Word says. So how does it work that Sola Scriptura is a thing? A thing that works? And how does anybody get to judge who it is working for and who it is failing?

 

[chevyontheriver]

That verse only tells us that Old Testament writings are profitable; it’s not some definitive statement about Scripture trumping anything else. And most of that Scripture was orally transmitted for centuries, incidentally. And even then Scripture must be interpreted in light of the church’s historical understanding and guidance-to avoid all the confusion and disagreement that reigns today among those going by Scripture alone. This, again, is where Christ’s disciples could explain scripture to those who couldn’t fully discern its truths on their own, such as Ellen White, for example.

AND … the Scriptures Paul was referring Timothy to were the OT. IF this verse of Paul’s says ‘Scripture Alone’ it actually says ‘Old Testament Alone’. And that the New Testament and the teaching of the Apostles would need to be excluded. Hardly what we want. The solution to this absurd result is to say that the verse does not demand any ‘alone’ result.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

No not really. She was blessed above all woman Luke 1:42 for being the mother of Jesus. That is about it. Not much more to add here.

So, nothing to add? You don't contend that she had other children, you don't contend that she sinned.
You agree that she is God's greatest creation in that she is daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Spirit. That's very generous of you

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That verse only tells us that Old Testament writings are profitable

Correct but think your argument through. Your not seriously going to try and argue that 2 Timothy 3:15 does not apply to the new testament are you and to the very Words of God (Jesus) and the Apostles and say these words are not profitable and God breathed and inspired by God and scripture now are you?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ According to the scriptures there can only be unity for those in the faith who believe and follow what Gods Word says (see John 10:26-27; Romans 10:17). To be "in the faith" means to believe and follow what Gods' Word says.

Your response here...

Well of course. There is not unity though for those who say they believe and follow what God's Word says. So are they 'out of the faith' rather than 'in the faith'? They follow Sola Scriptura, or they say they do. My point is claiming to follow Sola Scriptura is different than following God's Word. Which is to say claiming to follow Sola Scriptura is rather meaningless because the adherents are neither united, nor do they agree on what God's Word says. So how does it work that Sola Scriptura is a thing? A thing that works? And how does anybody get to judge who it is working for and who it is failing?

Following scripture alone (Sola Scriptura) is following Gods' Word alone, because all scripture is inspired by God and is God breathed and is Gods' Word.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

AND … the Scriptures Paul was referring Timothy to were the OT. IF this verse of Paul’s says ‘Scripture Alone’ it actually says ‘Old Testament Alone’. And that the New Testament and the teaching of the Apostles would need to be excluded. Hardly what we want. The solution to this absurd result is to say that the verse does not demand any ‘alone’ result.

See post # 70 linked.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You agree that she is God's greatest creation in that she is daughter of the Father, mother of the Son, and spouse of the Holy Spirit. That's very generous of you

She is not Gods' greatest creation more than anyone else. She is blessed above all women for being the mother of Jesus. She was not the spouse of the holy Spirit. None of that is biblical. There is no scripture that says Mary was sinless. So I am not sure what your trying to talk about here or what your post here has to do with the OP to be honest.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Your not seriously going to try and argue that the very Words of God (Jesus) and the Apostles in the new testament are not scripture and not profitable and God breathed and inspired by God and scripture now are you? Please think your argument through.

That is not what he means, but to the people to which that letter was written did not have a copy of the New Testament at that time, as the New Testament was not yet written.
The other thing you neglect to note was that many people were illiterate throughout the time of Christianity. Literacy is a modern convenience brought about by the printing press and now computers. Bibles were rare in those days as they were so valuable due to the length of time they took to copy and write. Yes some were chained in the Church to prevent theft, not to hide them from the people
People heard the Gospel from the teaching of the Apostles in the churches, not from a book. Books were for scholars at that time and everyday folks did not use them. As you correctly note, Faith comes by hearing. The word does not say reading. People knew the true faith by Apostolic authority, not by the book they were reading

 

[LoveGodsWord]

That is not what he means, but to the people to which that letter was written did not have a copy of the New Testament at that time, as the New Testament was not yet written.
The other thing you neglect to note was that many people were illiterate throughout the time of Christianity. Literacy is a modern convenience brought about by the printing press and now computers. Bibles were rare in those days as they were so valuable due to the length of time they took to copy and write. Yes some were chained in the Church to prevent theft, not to hide them from the people
People heard the Gospel from the teaching of the Apostles in the churches, not from a book. Books were for scholars at that time and everyday folks did not use them. As you correctly note, Faith comes by hearing. The word does not say reading. People knew the true faith by Apostolic authority, not by the book they were reading

Then the post was a distraction. All scripture in the old and new testament are scriptures, and Gods' Word. Of course I know they did not have the new testament. I never said they did. I only posted all scripture is Gods' Word and both the old and new testament are scripture.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

She is not Gods' greatest creation more than anyone else. She is blessed above all women for being the mother of Jesus. She was not the spouse of the holy Spirit. None of that is biblical. There is no scripture that says Mary was sinless. So I am not sure what your trying to talk about here or what your posting has to do with the OP to be honest.

My point is that the view that Mary sinned is unbiblical, there is no scripture that says that she did. It is only human inference of scripture, which is not scripture, that comes to that conclusion.
She is God’s greatest creation. Can you name one better? Who else had the creator of the universe grow inside her as an embryo? Who gave birth to the living Word of God. Who was impregnated by the Holy Spirit which is by definition espousal, unless you are trying to say that Jesus’ was an illegitimate birth?
Who raised and had the Word of God subject to her for thirty years? Who had the Word of God begin His ministry at her request? Many other things she has done. No other crested being compares to her.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

My point is that the view that Mary sinned is unbiblical, there is no scripture that says that she did. It is only human inference of scripture, which is not scripture, that comes to that conclusion. She is God’s greatest creation. Can you name one better? Who else had the creator of the universe grow inside her as an embryo? Who gave birth to the living Word of God. Who was impregnated by the Holy Spirit which is by definition espousal, unless you are trying to say that Jesus’ was an illegitimate birth? Who raised and had the Word of God subject to her for thirty years? Who had the Word of God begin His ministry at her request? Many other things she has done. No other crested being compares to her.

Of course it is biblical unless you are in disagreement with Paul that says the following?

Romans 3:9-23​

• [9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
• [10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
• [11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
• [12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
• [13], Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
• [14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
• [15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
• [16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
• [17], And the way of peace have they not known:
• [18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
• [19], Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
• [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
• [21], But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
• [22], Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
• [23], For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

When Paul says all have sinned and again all the world is guilty before God, he is talking about all man kind which include all men and all women here which also includes Mary who is a sinner in need of a Savior just like everyone of us. In order for you to prove that Mary was sinless you would need to provide scripture for that teaching and there is none. Then you would need to harmonize what Paul says in Romans 3:9-23. Although that will never happen as there is no scripture that says Mary is sinless. So you have a problem here in your belief that Mary was sinless as it is a teaching that is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. As shown above everything you have posted about Mary being sinless and God's greatest creation is not supported in the scriptures so the human inference here is your side as your claims are not supported by scripture.

Take Care.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

Of course it is biblical unless you are in disagreement with Paul that says the following?

Romans 3:9-23​

• [9], What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
• [10], As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
• [11], There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
• [12], They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
• [13], Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
• [14], Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
• [15], Their feet are swift to shed blood:
• [16], Destruction and misery are in their ways:
• [17], And the way of peace have they not known:
• [18], There is no fear of God before their eyes.
• [19], Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
• [20], Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
• [21], But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
• [22], Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
• [23], For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

When Paul says all have sinned he is talking about all man kind which include all men and all women here which also includes Mary who is a sinner in need of a Savior just like everyone of us. In order for you to prove that Mary was sinless you would need to provide scripture for that teaching and there is none. Then you would need to harmonize what Paul says in Romans 3:9-23. Although that will never happen as there is no scripture that says Mary is sinless. So you have a problem here in your belief that Mary was sinless as it is a teaching that is not biblical or supported in the scriptures. As shown above everything you have posted about Mary being sinless and God's greatest creation is not supported in the scriptures so the human inference here is your side as your claims are not supported by scripture.

Take Care.

None of those scriptures, that you posted, say that Mary sinned. They do not even mention her name.
What is your view of Genesis 3:15?
What is your view of the word Kecharitomene, which is applied only to Mary?

Which is the primary virtue? What does God desire above sacrifice?

No one possesses righteousness by nature, except God. We can and will possess righteousness by grace. Mary was the first to experience this. We will too, if we ask, unless you say we will sin in heaven. Go back and read the scriptures again, you seem to be missing something

 

[The Liturgist]

I was wondering since there are so many denominations claiming Sola Scriptura, what does that actually mean, and how is it different from the scenario presented in this video?

Are you governed by sola scriptura or is sola scriptura governed by you or those in authority over you?

This video really made me think. Anyone else?

https://youtube.com/shorts/tUZKrrz3vCk?feature=share

Sola Scriptura as defined by Magisterial Protestants like Lutherans, who have the Book of Concord, or Calvinists, who have the Confessions (and Books of Order), Anglicans, who have the BCP, the 39 Articles and the formula of Scripture, Tradition and Reason, tp define doctrine, Methodists, who add experience to the Anglican trilateral to form the Wesleyan Quadrilateral, and Adventists, who have the 28 Articles of Faith and the interpretive guidance of Ellen White, benefit from a stabilizing factor.

There are however Nuda Scriptura churches which differ from Magisterial Protestants in that they lack any external reference to provide guidance and are unable to even articulate why their Bibles have the specific canon of books in it. They tend to be doctrinally unstable and sometimes drift into heresy.

The other day, I was remarking how Magisterial Protestantism, because of its use of Articles of Religion or Books of Order and in the case of Anglicanism, Church Tradition and liturgical patrimony, is functionally the same as the Roman Catholic Magisterium and the Holy Tradition of the Eastern Churches, even if many Protestants (excluding myself and most Anglicans and Evangelical Catholic Lutherans) disagree, since in all three branches of Christianity you have a system of guidance which defines canonical scriptures and the interpretation of them accepted within a particular denomination (usually following the Nicene Creed and other Creeds).

 

[The Liturgist]

Which is the primary virtue? What does God desire above sacrifice?

“I will have mercy and not sacrifice.” I realize the question was not intended for me, but I love that Dominical statement.

 

[The Liturgist]

None of those scriptures, that you posted, say that Mary sinned. They do not even mention her name.

Indeed, I think that Scripture strongly implies that the Blessed Virgin is sinless, and because of the example of the Magnificat and the Wedding Feast at Cana, I pray the Hail Mary nightly.