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Featured Can you lose your salvation?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Nov 16, 2018.

  1. Geralt

    Geralt Reformed Supporter

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    if its 'true born again', then it is 'true conversion'- total change. why even bother doubting, the change in person is in itself proof of God working. and if God works, he completes.
     
  2. Tom34

    Tom34 Perfection of Character is a daily job

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    Consider these verses:
    • 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
    • 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
    • Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
    From these verses, whoever is born again accepts that Jesus has conquered death and through him we can have victory over sin just has Jesus have victory over sin.

    So, I think we will not lose our salvation, unless we think that we don't need God anymore to help us achieve perfection of character.
    • Acts 28:25-27 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers, Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive: For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them
    The people personally rejects salvation. Issue of the heart. We ourselves knows our decision. When this person keeps living this life, he will eventually reach a level where every word of God does not bring "good effect" to them rather, the word will hardened their heart.
    • 2 Corinthians 2:15,16 For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
    Cheers.
     
  3. chilehed

    chilehed Veteran

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    Absolutely. The Bible specifically speaks of those who have made shipwreck of their salvation, and it doesn't say anywhere that it can't be done.
     
  4. Rubiks

    Rubiks armchair linguist

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    Paul says in Galatians 3 Christians that signing the mosaic covenant cuts you off from the grace of God.
     
  5. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

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  6. 1am3laine

    1am3laine Active Member

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    Yes, people can lose their salvation by blaspheming the Holy Spirit. (matthew 12:31-32, mark 3:28-30, luke 12:8-10)

    I believe the falling away in 2 thessalonians 2:3 is when there's a massive blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. I started noticing people doing this via the blasphemy challenge and on twitter.

    I talk about it in the link below.
    The Secrets of The Gospel: Has the falling away begun? Blasphemous Tweets
     
  7. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    So what's with the disbelief of passages such as John 10:28?

    John 10:27-29 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

    This is a determined statement by Christ saying that nobody will perish whom he saves, because they have eternal (unending) life; and that no man (which would include the person being saved, because that person is a man/woman) can pluck them out of his hand. It's not like we can run away from God once we're saved, we can just see Jonah and how that worked out for him. Though in Jonah's case, it was a specific work, the love of God towards the saved is exactly the same.

    The problem that we run into with saying a person can lose their salvation by falling into sin is this: where do we draw the line? Is the line specifically stated in scripture that once a Christian passes this certain point in sinning that he is no longer saved? Because I've never found such a line drawn in scripture. The one thing we know for certain is that there is none righteous (Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23), and that we all deserve death as a consequence of our sin, both physically and spiritually (Romans 5:12, Hebrews 9:27). So, sin being the problem, and Christ being the perfect solution to take away the problem, how is it that adding more of the problem can take away the perfect solution that is Christ? We know that Jesus is perfectly sufficient for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 4:10, John 3:16), so is it fine to simply say that sin can become bigger and outweigh the sacrifice of Christ? No, it's not.

    Again, John 10:28 perfectly refutes the idea of "forfeiting" one's salvation. Why would God take back something he already gave? It's a gift. Isn't a gift something that is given permanently to someone else bought and paid for by the giver? The buyer won't take it back, because it's not a loan, nor did the receiver borrow it. The receiver now possesses the gift. And if salvation belongs to the Lord, the Lord is the only one who can receive back that gift, except he won't.

    Hebrews 6:4-6 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

    So ripping this verse out of context doesn't do much good to the argument of losing one's salvation. This verse would contradict many other scriptures saying a person can lose their everlasting life (which is an oxymoron by the way), if that were the case. The verse is stating that it is not possible for those people who received the Holy Ghost (were saved) that if they should fall away, to renew them again unto repentance. Why? Because they are already renewed. They would put Christ to an open shame if they were re-renewed, because that would show that Christ Jesus wasn't the once-for-all perfect sacrifice for sins, and it would disgrace his name as unworthy. Except that's not possible, because Christ is the perfect sacrifice for sins for the entire world.

    Remember the verse in Ephesians 4:30, that says we are sealed by the Spirit UNTO the day of redemption pictured in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18? We are sealed with that Spirit once we believe and trust the gospel of Christ (Ephesians 1:13). That would contradict the passage in Hebrews 6 if a person could lose their salvation: they would lose their seal, even though all who are sealed are sealed unto that day according to Ephesians 4:30.

    And also, God would be a liar if he promised us everlasting life through his Son that had nothing to do with ourselves (Ephesians 2:8), and was a free gift (Romans 5:18); except God cannot lie, as some of you presume (Titus 1:2). The promise of eternal life is given to all who become born of God through faith in Christ, which is not conditioned based upon their personal holiness in any way; it's only condition based upon their belief (John 3:18, Mark 16:16).

    The fact is, if we had to live our lives a certain way or stop sinning in order to maintain salvation, none of us would be saved, and salvation wouldn't be by grace. We all sin everyday (Proverbs 20:9, Ecclesiastes 7:20, John 1:8, John 1:10), so that would automatically disqualify our salvation each time we awoke if what some believed in this thread were true, and that would put Christ to an open shame.
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    If you hate God to the point of calling Him Satan, then yes.

    Don't.
     
  9. thomasanderson

    thomasanderson New Member

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    Can you lose your salvation?

    Like what? Like you forgot where you put it?
     
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  10. Nicolaus Mourer

    Nicolaus Mourer Call me Nic. Supporter

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    Regarding Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus, these were heretical teachers; false prophets in sheep's clothing, teaching against the doctrine of the resurrection. 2 Peter 2:20-22 is clear that men like that came unto the knowledge of the gospel of Jesus, but never obeyed from the heart the gospel, like we are told in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 and Romans 6:17. They were never saved in the first place.
     
  11. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Tell me, can such a person ever deny Christ and walk away from Christianity?
     
  12. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    It is very interesting. I've almost always believed in Eternal Security and when I didn't I was kind of such a fool. I used to go around trying to keep the Law only to realize in the end that its impossible to keep the Law perfectly. Do I still want to keep the law? Sure. Because I love God but there are still a lot of parts about the Law that I find impossible to keep. Like the Sabbath. Saturday comes in the blink of an eye and you cannot do ANYTHING pretty much on the Sabbath. Idk how people used to keep it before Christ came.

    Anyway yeah. People who don't believe in Eternal Security say its a damnable thing to believe in and I've heard people who do believe in Eternal security say that people who don't are damned too. Honestly it just sickens me. I believe everyone who believes in Jesus is saved. Regardless if they believe in exactly what I do or not. Some people...
     
  13. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    I've heard of people claiming that you can lose salvation by apostacy. I don't believe in it. I believe that once a person is born again they will never fall away because the Holy Spirit keeps them. And those that do fall away were never truly born again. But I've NEVER heard that one could lose their salvation for sin. That's just completely unbiblical and its like spitting in Jesus's face and saying that he didn't pay the price for ALL of our sins on the cross. Jesus died for all of our sins past, present, and future. There isn't a single sin that we can commit that God doesn't already know about and died for. They were all forgiven when he died for us.
     
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  14. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Agreed. I couldn't have put it better myself.
     
  15. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Oh? Where?
     
  16. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    They could. But one of the jobs of the Holy Spirit is to keep believers believing. So in my opinion no true born again believer would ever fall away.
     
  17. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    If you believe that then your question is answered but if you doubt it then your question is still answered.
     
  18. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    I wanted to refrain from posting my own beliefs and wanted to discuss other peoples beliefs in the thread. Because I know there are people on these boards that do believe you can lose your salvation and I'm curious as to what a person can do to actually lose their salvation and what scriptures they use for their beliefs.
     
  19. Devin P

    Devin P Well-Known Member

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    The fallen angels will never again become angels. They will be destroyed. They have no forgiveness.
     
  20. thomasanderson

    thomasanderson New Member

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    No it's not possible to lose your salvation.

    John 6:39
    And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
     
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