Can WOMEN preach in CHURCH?

[Chickapee]

I see nothing wrong with women becoming pastors and preachers so long as, like men, they are truly called by God to follow in that path that He has laid down for them. A speaker, regardless of the sex, who is anointed by God to preach His message is powerful. My Church has husband and wife Officers (Pastors), both of whom are quite inspiring and offer great insights into the applications of the Scriptures when they preach.

love this point Delta ,,
wonderful and very close to what Jesus and Paul said , the two are'' ONE FLESH ''
''ONE FLESH'' MAKING THEM WHOLE complete ,,

Adam was male /female on the beginning woman come out of the man ,,,
to me personally is the SPIRITUAL BEING .. MOVED BY GOD '' HOLY SPIRIT '' that is called out and seperated and annointed to preach
Mat 19:5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Mat 19:6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. and its also part of the Mystery of the Church .. the TRUE CHURCH the BODY of Christ ...
Peace c ...

 

[sunlover1]

[bible]Psalms 73:3[/bible]

Psalms 73:3

Psalm 73:3
3 For I was envious at the foolish,
when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.

 

[mike1reynolds]

love this point Delta ,,
wonderful and very close to what Jesus and Paul said , the two are'' ONE FLESH ''
''ONE FLESH'' MAKING THEM WHOLE complete ,,

Adam was male /female on the beginning woman come out of the man ,,,
to me personally is the SPIRITUAL BEING .. MOVED BY GOD '' HOLY SPIRIT '' that is called out and seperated and annointed to preach
Mat 19:5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Mat 19:6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. and its also part of the Mystery of the Church .. the TRUE CHURCH the BODY of Christ ...
Peace c ...

Do you always blithely ignore the Bible when it so flatly contradicts you?

In all of my bitter arguments with men over the past year I have never seen this level of total dismissiveness of the Bible from any of them.

I use to think the Bible was sexist, but now I realize that it is right and I was wrong.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Psalms 73:3
3 Lift up thy hands against their pride unto the end; see what things the enemy hath done wickedly in the sanctuary.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Ah yes, quoting the Bible precisely in context is evil pride. Making up the context and distorting it as you go along, as you do WA, is much more humble.

And then you wonder why women aren't allowed to preach in church! <*chortle*>

 

[Floatingaxe]

1 Timothy 2:12

(W)But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

Well, scholars do not agree on this one, so neither will we. I am of the belief, as many, that this is an unusual usage of the word "authority" , "authentein", not seen elsewhere in the New Testament. It is understood by many to mean domineering, manipulating, even murdering of others!

You have to return to the context of what Paul was talking about: a godless woman was teaching false doctrines and leading in a harmful way! It only follows that she shouldn't lead or hold position. No way did she meet any qualifications that Paul had set down to Timothy, because she was not above reproach, either in word or deed! Disciplinary action was called for!

Paul also never mentioned than men were to hold authority over anyone of either gender! Only false teachers try to hold control over people.

Jesus Himself prescribed what a leader is: a servant!

 

[WarriorAngel]

Ah yes, quoting the Bible precisely in context is evil pride. Making up the context and distorting it as you go along, as you do WA, is much more humble.

And then you wonder why women aren't allowed to preach in church! <*chortle*>

MAYBE just maybe if you read what I said..........

 

[WarriorAngel]

Well, scholars do not agree on this one, so neither will we. I am of the belief, as many, that this is an unusual usage of the word "authority" , "authentein", not seen elsewhere in the New Testament. It is understood by many to mean domineering, manipulating, even murdering of others!

You have to return to the context of what Paul was talking about: a godless woman was teaching false doctrines and leading in a harmful way! It only follows that she shouldn't lead or hold position. No way did she meet any qualifications that Paul had set down to Timothy, because she was not above reproach, either in word or deed! Disciplinary action was called for!

Paul also never mentioned than men were to hold authority over anyone of either gender! Only false teachers try to hold control over people.

Jesus Himself prescribed what a leader is: a servant!

There is NO scholar today worthy of truth if they ignore the Traditions of the Church since the beginning.

 

[Floatingaxe]

There is NO scholar today worthy of truth if they ignore the Traditions of the Church since the beginning.

I was outlining a portion of the tradition of Paul since the beginning...I happen to trust these Godly men. Read Loren Cunningham and David Joel Hamilton's book, "Why Not Women?" It will open your eyes!

The problems exist in the minds of those who follow an erroneous tradition.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Well, scholars do not agree on this one, so neither will we. I am of the belief, as many, that this is an unusual usage of the word "authority" , "authentein", not seen elsewhere in the New Testament. It is understood by many to mean domineering, manipulating, even murdering of others!

You have to return to the context of what Paul was talking about: a godless woman was teaching false doctrines and leading in a harmful way! It only follows that she shouldn't lead or hold position. No way did she meet any qualifications that Paul had set down to Timothy, because she was not above reproach, either in word or deed! Disciplinary action was called for!

Paul also never mentioned than men were to hold authority over anyone of either gender! Only false teachers try to hold control over people.

Jesus Himself prescribed what a leader is: a servant!

All of these academic intellectual circuitous finaglings to try and wriggle out of the clear and obvious statement that was made. What are your excuses to explain away the quotes from Peter and Corinthians that are even more pervasive?

I use to despise creationists as religious fanatic nut cases, but suddenly I am coming to understand how they could have such a deep seated suspicion of academic intellectual reasoning that makes a ridiculous game out of every little obvious statement or finding. The creationist are no better, they try to play the same game rather than playing it straight, but after discussions like this I certainly do have a lot more sympathy for their profound suspicion of morally shallow intellectual academics.

 

[mike1reynolds]

MAYBE just maybe if you read what I said..........

I apologize if I misunderstood, but coming immediately after my post as yours did, it clearly appeared to imply that my usage of Biblical quotes was a form of evil preaching, as your quote of Psalms says. Especially since this is parallel to another almost identical topic in which you have done nothing but reply to me in scorn.

That is the only meaning that I can see from it, still. If that is not what you meant then please clarify, because I doubt that anyone could possibly have gotten any other meaning out of it either.


Does posting really big make you feel more important?

 

[Chickapee]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickapee
love this point Delta ,,
wonderful and very close to what Jesus and Paul said , the two are'' ONE FLESH ''
''ONE FLESH'' MAKING THEM WHOLE complete ,,

Adam was male /female on the beginning woman come out of the man ,,,


to me personally is the SPIRITUAL BEING .. MOVED BY GOD '' HOLY SPIRIT '' that is called out and seperated and annointed to preach



Mat 19:5And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?


Mat 19:6Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. and its also part of the Mystery of the Church .. the TRUE CHURCH the BODY of Christ ...
Peace c ...

Do you always blithely ignore the Bible when it so flatly contradicts you?

In all of my bitter arguments with men over the past year I have never seen this level of total dismissiveness of the Bible from any of them.

I use to think the Bible was sexist, but now I realize that it is right and I was wrong.

You are still seeing very carnally Mike and still outside in the fleshly realm of thinking puffed up even
there is no divisions in ''CHRIST ''
HE IS THE HEAD OF ALL AUTHRORITY ,

and Spiritually speaking my true husband now , as should be yours also by now ??

1Cr 1:26¶For you see your calling,


brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh,

not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:


But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;


and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


And base things of the world, and things which are despised,

hath God chosen,

[yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Think about it , according to the traditions of men

women are the most despised and the weaker vessel and the most base thing God ever made , of low birth or order
Base, Baser:
"of low birth" (a, negative, genos, "family, race"), hence denoted "that which is of no reputation, of no account,"

1Cr 1:28, "the base things of the world," i.e., those which are of no account or fame in the world's esteem.

That the neuter plural of the adjective bears reference to persons is clear from verse 26.


the things of this world and sight of the eyes are the very blinding things GOD USES

to tear down the stongholds powers and principalities this world of darkness and flesh HOLD IN HIGH ESTEEM AND GLORY IN , you seem to be glorying in being born a mortal man and love to hold the position of down grading all women for what ever reason your carnal mind takes pleasure in

i will not let you rob me as a thief and steal my peace and Joy in the LORD JESUS CHRIST and what the Lord has so graciously blessed my own soul with

paul was speaking many times to the carnal a as well as the Spiritually born and minded ,they are enmities [BITTER ENEMIES ] betWeen the two minds [and WORLDS APART], the carnal earthly sensual and devilish the fleshy mind and the spiritual mind born from above , mind of Christ obedient to the WILL OF GOD

it even says so in many places if you would just read it for yourself and ask the Lord to help you with the Holy Spirit Teaching you the things that pertain to the SPIRIT AND TRUTH
His kingdom is NOT OF THIS WORLD ..

this is where you error and are at fault in ...

peace and God bless ..c

 

[mike1reynolds]

There is NO scholar today worthy of truth if they ignore the Traditions of the Church since the beginning.

Not the best argument made so far, so why so big?

 

[Floatingaxe]

All of these academic intellectual circuitous finaglings to try and wriggle out of the clear and obvious statement that was made. What are your excuses to explain away the quotes from Peter and Corinthians that are even more pervasive?

I use to despise creationists as religious fanatic nut cases, but suddenly I am coming to understand how they could have such a deep seated suspicion of academic intellectual reasoning that makes a ridiculous game out of every little obvious statement or finding. The creationist are no better, they try to play the same game rather than playing it straight, but after discussions like this I certainly do have a lot more sympathy for their profound suspicion of morally shallow intellectual academics.

Creationists?

Oh brother! Go start your own thread on that one! If you are an evolutionist, then I wouldn't even give your opinion on this matter the time of day.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Creationists?

Oh brother! Go start your own thread on that one! If you are an evolutionist, then I wouldn't even give your opinion on this matter the time of day.

And yet you are the one hypocritically appealing to academic intellectuals for Biblical interpretation. Your argument is profoundly self-contradictory on many levels, not least of which is that you blithely dismiss the Bible.

My point was that you have taught me to sympathize with creationists because your argument sounds like that of their enemies. Stick that one in your bonnet!

 

[Floatingaxe]

And yet you are the one hypocritically appealing to academic intellectuals for Biblical interpretation. Your argument is profoundly self-contradictory on many levels, not least of which is that you blithely dismiss the Bible.

My point was that you have taught me to sympathize with creationists because your argument sounds like that of their enemies. Stick that one in your bonnet!

Well, the Bible is the authority to which I refer! I do not rely on scholars for my interpretation, for the Holy Spirit is sufficient. There is nothing contradictory in my position. It follows Scripture.

Obviously you are listening to mysogynist teachers yourself. Too bad.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I was outlining a portion of the tradition of Paul since the beginning...I happen to trust these Godly men. Read Loren Cunningham and David Joel Hamilton's book, "Why Not Women?" It will open your eyes!

The problems exist in the minds of those who follow an erroneous tradition.

I used bolded font because I already gave a good base for why women are not preachers, and yet my posts were overlooked.

I do not need the scholars of today who did not live in the times of the beginning to tell me why they did not have women.
I subscribe only to that which has been taught since the beginning.

If women were to be choosen ever..one would think the most profound teacher of all, who knew Christ best would be His mother.

Yet filled with grace from the beginning, was not choosen.

If she, who taught the Lord from birth was not choosen, then it is deepest humilty we women should have that there is no need to feel above her own being which is filled with grace.

Also, Jesus made sure to choose men. They are His 'stand ins' and as such are men after His own Being.

Women are not made less worthy, for we still are teachers...but we are not priests.
We do not teach in the Churches, but we teach our young...which is just as important.

Women do have roles to fill in the life of ministry. It is not the same as men. God made us the heart of the faith, and the men our instructors.

WE all have the same reward in Heaven. Yet the preachers are held to the fire in the end... lest they fail.

Those who have been given much will be judged by the amount given to them.

Yes, Tradition, writings from the start are key, compared to those who believe as they choose in 2007.

Hear Paul, hear him.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Well, the Bible is the authority to which I refer! I do not rely on scholars for my interpretation, for the Holy Spirit is sufficient. There is nothing contradictory in my position. It follows Scripture.

Obviously you are listening to mysogynist teachers yourself. Too bad.

I am taking the Bible at face value rather than attempting to explain it away as you are. You are trying to argue that when the Bible says white it really means black.

 

[mike1reynolds]

You are still seeing very carnally Mike and still outside in the fleshly realm of thinking puffed up even

Since carnal implies that one is illicit in one's affaris, sub-human even, I would much rather be puffed up than carnal.

Even though you strangely imply that being puffed up is far worse than being carnal.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I used bolded font because I already gave a good base for why women are not preachers, and yet my posts were overlooked.

I do not need the scholars of today who did not live in the times of the beginning to tell me why they did not have women.
I subscribe only to that which has been taught since the beginning.

If women were to be choosen ever..one would think the most profound teacher of all, who knew Christ best would be His mother.

Yet filled with grace from the beginning, was not choosen.

If she, who taught the Lord from birth was not choosen, then it is deepest humilty we women should have that there is no need to feel above her own being which is filled with grace.

Also, Jesus made sure to choose men. They are His 'stand ins' and as such are men after His own Being.

Women are not made less worthy, for we still are teachers...but we are not priests.
We do not teach in the Churches, but we teach our young...which is just as important.

Women do have roles to fill in the life of ministry. It is not the same as men. God made us the heart of the faith, and the men our instructors.

WE all have the same reward in Heaven. Yet the preachers are held to the fire in the end... lest they fail.

Those who have been given much will be judged by the amount given to them.

Yes, Tradition, writings from the start are key, compared to those who believe as they choose in 2007.

Hear Paul, hear him.

Mary, you say? Not chosen? Mary WAS indeed chosen to fulfill a calling and she made herself fully available as we all should--male and female alike.

Jesus chose men for His twelve, because to choose women would be a hardship for Him because of the cultural disdain for women. He only had 3 years! However, among His hundreds of disciples there would have been hundreds of women. Even among the 120 in the Upper Room at Pentecost, there they were, preaching their hearts out alongside men!

It is a sad thing for people through the centuries since Christ to have read into Paul's message that the Holy Spirit equips only 50% of us to perform all of the callings of God. God sees no gender. Neither should we.

Paul sure didn't! He worked faithfully alongside females, including people like Phoebe who was a pastor in Cenchrae, and to whom Paul admits to lending an ear to also!

You need to study the Word and study more of Paul and read in context.

It is the woeful sin of pride to assume and teach that women are not to avail themselves of the call of God on their lives to preach the gospel to every creature as the Great Commission commands us all. Satan has seen to it through that lie that the workforce of the Holy Spirit has been successfully halved, thus delaying the return of Jesus Christ, and enabling him to kill more and more lost people, enlarging hell exponentially with each generation.