Can WOMEN preach in CHURCH?

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Floatingaxe

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This is the problem. Those that accept this movment will be drawn to certain churches, and those who oppose it will be drawn to other churches. Where do you see anything of the Spirit in this concept? There is suppose to be a unity in thought, and the Spirit is given to guide us in all truth, yet this NEW movement has creeped it's way in the church and has divided us even more than a denomination.

My interpretation of scripture is not the issue, but the issue is to understand All the reasoning that those who hold women pastors to be of God. It does not unite itself with the rest of the scriptures. The fact that you can find so many things about women pastors that go against God's design should atract our attention.

And by the major fact that we know that in these last days satan has transformed himself into an angel of light, and has infiltrated his iniquity into the church, we should be very careful and slow to follow new trends.

If God so wanted women to be in the position that they are in today, then why did He take so long to accomplish such a goal? Why wait until satan has nearly taken control of the church to suddenly give women the authority to lead His body? Did He forget to do so with His own people- the children of Isreal? Did he forget to tell Moses or Aroan to allow women to bring the offerings before God on the altar?

That's ridiculous! Even Miriam was one of three leaders over the entire nation of Israel! AND Minister of Worship!

This is no NEW trend!

It is the movement of the Holy Spirit--finally in these last days, to bring BACK what men have occluded, over centuries of spiritual blindness. Finally, He is enabling women to come forward, where they should never have been denied, to proclaim the truth of Jesus' enabling and calling of ALL people who are known by His name!

Satan's hold is being weakened! Praise Jesus! He is ushering in His kingdom..I can taste it!
 
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lamblion

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I am not suggesting that women should keep silence in the church, because I know that that certain scripture was pertaining to the gift of tongues. I know many many women who know so much of God's word that you would think that they were pastors, but by the very knowlege that they have attained they understand that all of God's children are commanded to know his Word so that we can live honorable lives. And they understand that there are many members that unite to successfully function the body, and if one of these members choose not to function in the manner in which it was gifted then the whole body suffers and that member becomes a cancer that only edifies itself.

I love women and I love that God saw it fit to unite him with that part that he needed for completion; nevertheless, I just can't concieve that God the Holy Spirit would cause so much confusion by suddenly calling the weaker vessel to become the vessel in which He uses to lead the body.

So whats the big deal of a women being a Pastor? If she is qualified then why can't God the Holy Spirit do with her as He sees fit?

The same reason that the serpent came to Eve to decieve her and did not come to Adam to decieve him. She was created a helpmate who is the weaker vessel, and satan has noticed this from the beginning of the creation of the human race. It is evident all throughout scripture.
 
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lamblion

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That's ridiculous! Even Miriam was one of three leaders over the entire nation of Israel! AND Minister of Worship!

This is no NEW trend!

It is the movement of the Holy Spirit--finally in these last days, to bring BACK what men have occluded, over centuries of spiritual blindness. Finally, He is enabling women to come forward, where they should never have been denied, to proclaim the truth of Jesus' enabling and calling of ALL people who are known by His name!

Satan's hold is being weakened! Praise Jesus! He is ushering in His kingdom..I can taste it!
How is satan's hold being weakened when scripture teaches that he will become stronger in his decieving?

Is this not the church of Laodican Age? Is it not the worst of all ages?
 
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lamblion

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I will try.

For a number of years my wife and I had a wonderful ministry. we were given the gifts of the spirit many times and ministered to those who needed it. God has done many wonderfull things that we have witnessed.
He used us both equally in our ministry.
I know that people on here think this has nothing to do with it but to see the way that god "Moved Mountains", so to speak to bring her to where she is today as a minister in the church of England, left us in no doubt that he approves of women in ministry.
We have a friend who is a minister and she also teaches theolegy at a London college. She is an amazing person and does so much for the lord. I can only see advantages with women being in ministry. There is so much for them to do, especially ministering to women in the church. there is so much work to do in the kingdom and so few workers.
Peoples arguments against women is based around what happened two thousand years ago. I go off what the Lord is doing today. I know that brings up other questions but I'm happy to live with that.
Hope this goes a small way to understanding where I am coming from on this subject
John
Truth is more sufficent than experience!
 
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Floatingaxe

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I just can't concieve that God the Holy Spirit would cause so much confusion by suddenly calling the weaker vessel to become the vessel in which He uses to lead the body.

Well, firstly, the Holy Spirit hasn't caused any confusion!! Only Satan causes confusion--so there's your first clue!

Secondly, He never suddenly called women to lead. He has been calling since the beginning, but the women were prevented from answering, weren't they? By another confusion wrought by Satan on men...telling them that they were the only ones on whom God would bestow such a spiritual gift, when it doesn't say that the Holy Spirit checks for the "plumbing" before delivering His marvelous gifts!

The Church is to burgeon before the lawless one comes! We are about to see the great outpouring of the Holy Spirit over all flesh! Amen!
 
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jon1

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No, but we are!

And, Who else could it be?
I don't think it would be such a smart move on satans part to bring more people into ministry.
I know it can be a hard thing to grasp for some people, especially if you have not done the journey yourselves, but God allways surprises me with what he does do. Have you ever done prayer ministry and asked for something specific for someone, then God ministers through us but does something else. It's happened to me a few times. Thats because he knows us better than ourselves and he does what is good for us, not allways what we want him to do. If God sees someone with a heart for the ministry, even though they don't yet have the skills I believe he will call them no matter what their gender. Then he will give them the skills to do his work. This is from first hand knowlage. No, I won't even pretend to know what God will or will not do, but when he does do something I won't question it, especially as he has shown us multiple times that he is there for us.
Something else that I have noticed, is that when women go into a new church as a preacher no one seems to leave the congregation because of it. I have herd a few gripes but after a short while the women become very popular with the congregation and have many new friends.
My wife found herself ministering to an elderly lady who could not approach a male minister with her problem, she had no trouble sharing with a female though. and that was when she was at our church being interviewed for the job as curate.
I personally think that we should be celebrating the fact that we have more people coming into the ministry to help expand Gods kingdom. Especially when they can bring skills that are badly needed in the church today.
I can see that there are many reasons for and against women in ministry, so what if a woman has a bit of authority over men, If we are honest its not exactly something new is it. Times and cultures do change and that is how it has allways been. What is not right 2000 years ago does not mean it cannot work today and I honestly believe that God knows that to. and he is bringing the church upto date to be more efficient. It's not like men have it all under control, Is it?
Anyway, I wish we could just let the Lord do his work without us on this little planet coming into conflict by trying to second guess him all the time. He will get on with the job whether we approve or not.
God bless
john.
 
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And, Who else could it be?
I don't think it would be such a smart move on satans part to bring more people into ministry.
I know it can be a hard thing to grasp for some people, especially if you have not done the journey yourselves, but God allways surprises me with what he does do. Have you ever done prayer ministry and asked for something specific for someone, then God ministers through us but does something else. It's happened to me a few times. Thats because he knows us better than ourselves and he does what is good for us, not allways what we want him to do. If God sees someone with a heart for the ministry, even though they don't yet have the skills I believe he will call them no matter what their gender. Then he will give them the skills to do his work. This is from first hand knowlage. No, I won't even pretend to know what God will or will not do, but when he does do something I won't question it, especially as he has shown us multiple times that he is there for us.
Something else that I have noticed, is that when women go into a new church as a preacher no one seems to leave the congregation because of it. I have herd a few gripes but after a short while the women become very popular with the congregation and have many new friends.
My wife found herself ministering to an elderly lady who could not approach a male minister with her problem, she had no trouble sharing with a female though. and that was when she was at our church being interviewed for the job as curate.
I personally think that we should be celebrating the fact that we have more people coming into the ministry to help expand Gods kingdom. Especially when they can bring skills that are badly needed in the church today.
I can see that there are many reasons for and against women in ministry, so what if a woman has a bit of authority over men, If we are honest its not exactly something new is it. Times and cultures do change and that is how it has allways been. What is not right 2000 years ago does not mean it cannot work today and I honestly believe that God knows that to. and he is bringing the church upto date to be more efficient. It's not like men have it all under control, Is it?
Anyway, I wish we could just let the Lord do his work without us on this little planet coming into conflict by trying to second guess him all the time. He will get on with the job whether we approve or not.

:amen: :thumbsup:
 
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amadeus2

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"And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." Gen 2:22-24

"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;" gen 3:15-17

The first man Adam was cursed because he followed the lead of his wife to disobey God."For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." I Cor 15:22

The first man Adam brought death, but the last man Adam gave back life.

"And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly." I Cor 15:45-49

We will bear the image of the second man Adam which is spiritual rather than natural, heavenly rather than earthy. The spiritual man Jesus killed His own flesh that He might be only spiritual, only heavenly and absolutely perfect.He was without sin, but He was still imperfect UNTIL He had killed His flesh which was subject to temptation even as we are. [Heb 4:15]

He had not yet finished His course while living in the flesh prior to His crucifixion. In the garden of Gethsemane He overcame the last bit of the thing in His flesh which could separate Him from His Father: HIS OWN WILL, [that is, the will of His flesh]which was: not to suffer torture and death but live on in the flesh.. He prayed this prayer three times [see Matt 26:39].

After these final prayers, scripture relates how He lay down His own life for us. They did not take it. He lay it down or, in effect, killed Himself. "Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:17-18

"Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." Matt 22:28-30

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:25-26

If we are in Jesus, then we are in the resurrection and "in the resurrection they neither marrry, nor are given in marriage".Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Gen 3:16

If we are IN the resurrection than we are IN Jesus since He is the Resurrection. Then again, we do marry nor are we given in marriage. That is to say, there is no marriage between flesh and flesh, But…there is a new spiritual marriage between Christ (he being both the Resurrection and the Bridegroom) and His perfect Bride which is without spot or wrinkle or any such thing [Eph 5:24].

Christ, the husband is the Head, but His Bride, does not consist of one physical woman alone.Rather, His Bride which is also His Body for they are really ONE, the Body of Christ, consist of many parts perfectly fitted together [I Cor 1:10] and perfectly subject to Him, the Head

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.For the body is not one member, but many." I Cor 12:13-14

"For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread." I Cor 10:17Remember that Jesus is also the Bread of Life:"And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." John 6:35

"The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife." I Cor 7:4

Shall not Jesus then "...cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh"?So who then is the spiritual Woman who shall be the Body of Christ?The One that shall be the Bride of Christ? Will she not consist of both natural males and natural females who have become tha spiritual Woman?

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." I Cor 14:34-35

In the flesh perhaps God still has a order for natural women to be subject to the natural man in matural things… But…, we know that if a man is not a child of God and his wife is one then even in the flesh she need not be subject to him if she knows that such submission would cause her to sin oppose God.Her role in the flesh is however, not her spiritual role. Neither is the natural role of the man necessailry his spiritual role. In spiritual things God is no respector of persons:

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

God clearly makes no distinction between men and women in spiritual things:

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal 3:27-28

Christ is the head and the head is the man. Christ has the role of a man when He ministers to people. He was 'courting' His Bride as a natural man courts his bride-to-be.Jesus continues today to 'court' His Bride through the spiritual ministry in order to perfect Her, to make He without spot or blemish:

"Thou art all fair, my love; there is no spot in thee" Song of Solomon 4:7

"My dove, my undefiled is but one; she is the only one of her mother, she is the choice one of her that bare her. The daughters saw her, and blessed her; yea, the queens and the concubines, and they praised her." Song of Solomon 6:9

Those that are Christ's ministers today are those that 'court' His Bride and work to perfect Her. They are in the man's role.

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Eph 4:11-12

The perfect spiritual Woman must be silent in the Church, but everyone of who will be part of the Bride will then necessarily be in th erole of the spiritual woman in silence. Both natural men and natural woemn will be be in the Bride of Christ.On the other hand, ino the perfect spiritual man every one who is called to bo the work of the Lord to perfect the saints and to edify the Body of Christ? Who can clearly say that both natural men and natrual women should not be active in this type of ministry?When active in the ministry let Christ speak through you! Isn't this the spiritual man? When receiving the teachings or perfecting gifts from the ministry, be silent! Isn't this the spiritual woman?Won't both natural men and natural women be in both places at some time? Even a natural man who has the position of pastor will be in the spiritual woman's role when someone else is preaching or teaching. The same pastor was not always a pastor. He was at the first a very unlearned young convert listening SILENTLY to the Word of God through his own pastor or mother or Sunday school teacher, etc.God call His ministers as He calls His children. He chooses His ministers as he chooses His children. Would not any person or group of persons that decides that we who are in Christ, that we who in the Resurrection should or should not be allowed to minister because we happen to be a natural male or a natural female seem to be fighting against God.
 
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