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This is my understanding of James 1:15 which I find more consistent with the rest of scripture than what you are suggesting.
Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is full grown, gives birth to death.
What death is James referring to? If he is talking generally and applying it to anyone at any time, he is effectively repeating what God said in the beginning. "Sin and you die" (Gen.2:17)
We know that Adam did not die (completely) on that day he ate. He remained physically alive, he was not completely abandoned for the Lord walked into the garden next day to speak with him. We understand Adam died spiritually. But according to the word of God, Adam should have been totally abandoned by God, physically, spiritually and his soul, (the complete man) forsaken by God. The Father could "suspend" the complete consequences of Adam's sin without compromising His integrity (holiness) because of the Christ to come, planned before the foundation of the world. When Christ came he did die "in the day" just as Adam should have. For three hours on the Cross while He was paying for the full consequences of our sin he was forsaken by God. This is something no man will ever experience. Please take special note of this and keep it in mind. No man will ever experience what it is like to be fully forsaken by God (die) because of his sin. The death Christ died on the Cross is the death Adam should have died in the garden but didn't.
If James is referring to believers in the verse above (and I believe he is) then the whatever death he speaks of is "covered" in the death of Christ, spiritual, physical and of the soul. However we know believers die physically, we see it everyday. In practical terms the warning James is giving us (believers) has application in regards to physical death. This corresponds to Paul's statement in Corinthians.
That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 1Cor.11:30
Their sin has brought God's judgment upon them and they have died physically yet they are in Christ and because He has died, these people will live.
It also corresponds with John.
If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 1Jn.5:16
Any believer who willfully continues to practice their sin without regard for their salvation will not mock the Lord. He will take them out of this life (physical death) so that His name is not blasphemed. Now sometimes He does it quickly and they die young and sometimes he does it slowly and they hang around for awhile. Invariably, those brothers become a test for us who are growing up in the Lord.
Now if James is referring to spiritual death as you are suggesting, the practical implication is completely unmanageable. It would mean every time any of us sins, we would die spiritually. If we are not spiritually alive the word of God becomes as foolishness to us. We would need to have the Gospel presented over and over again. Only those spiritually alive can be taught of God. Only those who are spiritually alive have the capacity to understand the word of God. Most of us commit sins which we are completely unaware of. The word of God would have to say ...
"Unless a man be born again and again and again and again and" .... on it would go for every sin we would commit.
The reason we don't die spiritually every time we commit a sin is because we are in Christ. He died that death on our behalf once and for all.
So why is it, if Christ died for us spiritually and physically, we don't die spiritually when we sin yet die physically whether we sin or not? It is because the sin nature resides in the flesh and until we get our resurrection bodies the sin nature remains in the members of our body.
For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to Godthrough Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. Rom.7:22 - 25
That law, working in our bodies, keep us as slaves to sin. That law never stops operating, not until we die or the resurrection, which ever comes first. Whether we live under it's law or whether we live under the law of the Spirit is an ongoing choice but it is a choice only made possible if we believe in Christ. For only in Christ does the option to live the new life (governed by the law of the Spirit) exist.
Quote:
Yet Romans 8 says that we are predestined to be conformed to the image of His son, are those who continue in sin, those who are 'living Christs death instead of His life,' really being transformed? Remember what james says 'friendship with the world is enmity with God,' if we live a lifestyle of sin are we not in friendship with the world?
Believe it or not? Yes, they are being transformed but they are not being transformed in their soul (thinking). In terms of a man's spirit, transformation is not applicable. One is either dead or alive. No transformation takes place. You can't be "partly" spiritual. (that would make you a spiritual zombie. there is no such thing) The other transformation left is physical, but as I said before, that is in the resurrection. That won't occur until God says "time's up" (so to speak). We all still wait for that time.
This is why we don't "see" their transformation. This is why we are inclined to think they are not saved. But the Lord can see the beginning from the end.
So what happens to a believer who refuses to be transformed in his soul while on this earth when the resurrection comes and he stands before Christ?
If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames. 1Cor.3:12-15
What does he lose? The majority of his spiritual blessings that have been placed in Christ. (Eph.1:3) He still gets his spiritual body and his place in God's Kingdom and the obvious benefits that would come from that. But the difference bewteen his life in eternity and someone who has grown and matured, is like the difference between a peasant in an earthly knigdom and the life of a royal advisor and confidante to the King.
Our work is our faith. Our faith is the word of God made alive in our soul, made alive by our willingness to trust in it's truth. Whatever is not of faith (truth) is burnt up and destroyed but if one believes that Jesus is the Saviour, even if they know no more than this, they have at least one truth in their soul and therefore are saved. No-one believes on Christ if they think he can't or won't save them. I doubt any one of us understood in full what we were being saved from when we believed in Christ. We knew our lives were wrong. Whether we understood why or how they were wrong is inconsequential. We believed and therefore are saved.
peace
You need to back that up with scripture.
Why didnt he deny peter then ? peter denied him !If you deny Jesus he will deny you - spoken to Christians.
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
Mt 10:33; Mr 8:38; Lu 12:9; Ro 8:17; 1Pe 4:13
Brian
The whole bible backs it up if you believe in the True God..
job 23:
13
13But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
lk 1 37
For with God nothing shall be impossible.
Hi SBG, I will say one more time God cannot tempt anyone, that removes any capacity you may believe God has to cause people to sin as sin is giving in to temptation.
You just need to be born again..Mt 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Saved you may think you got me, maybe since this is a seeming contradiction it would be a good exercise for you to try and figure it out and explain it to me.
Brian
He was Perfect when He was created - not anymore however. I would say that is pretty conclusive. Unless God has changed.
Brian
James was describing the flesh of all human beings, the scenario in gen 3 is what james described temptation entices inward lust , as it did with eve..So this proves that adam was created with a sinful nature or else where did the inner lust come from in eve to be attracted to satans temptation ?
Well it was not satan in her it was the created flesh , flesh is sinful and weak in and of itself..You seem to have a pretty good drift on this subject.
Go to Romans 7:17-21 and find out the difference between Paul and what indwelt Paul's flesh...
Then apply that understanding in the Garden...
Let me know what you see.
So God allows man to sin.....no ordains it Himself? How is this inline with God who is able to keep us from stumbling...from Jesus who says 'go away and sin no more,' from Paul who says 'do you not know brothers that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God do not be decieved?' Are you really saying that God causes us to sin? Dont forget that God tempts no one!
Mark
Well it was not satan in her it was the created flesh , flesh is sinful and weak in and of itself..
mk 14
38Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
rom 8:
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
external forces such as satan , , things we see , and desire , and natural pride will overcome flesh every time..
jn 3:
6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
wether born flesh or created flesh does not matter its weak and sinful..
1 exception The Lord Jesus Christ..
The devil was not in eve when she sinned he was next to her..Flesh is NOT evil. That is the error of the Gnostic position.
I gave a specific scripture set that addresses WHY the flesh is weak. That presentation is located in Romans 7:17-21 WHERE Paul described the "sin indwelling" himself as NO LONGER I twice, also stating therein that when he wanted to do good, Paul found that EVIL was present with him.
1 John 3:9 fully implicates ALSO the DEVIL in EVERY SIN...
So connect the dots. Was Paul EVIL? No. Evil was with him, in his flesh as the "presence of indwelling sin" which actions in thought, word or deed are OF THE DEVIL.
Paul also stated openly that he himself carried a special messenger of SATAN in his flesh, again dividing the flesh from that which it is SUBJECTED TO.
Jesus also showed us THOUSANDS of examples of the DEVILS being inhabitants OF THE FLESH.
So it is not like this is without OPEN PRECEDENT in the scriptures. Mankind is simply NOT ALONE in their flesh.
Yes, God in Christ DID and still DOES condemn SIN in SINFUL FLESH. None of us have EVER been promised flesh that is NOT subject to the presence of SIN indwelling, which same is OF THE DEVIL, who is the EVIL that is PRESENT with us all IN the flesh. We do not therefore "follow" the dictates of the "flesh" because of what/who IS IN IT.
But you see the mere fact that you cannot PLACE the devil IN the flesh IS IN FACT a working OF the DEVIL.
I think we all agree that the flesh and mind of Jesus was NOT subject to the DEVIL. That is why we "listen to Him" per God's instructions.
enjoy!
squint
The devil was not in eve when she sinned he was next to her..
She had a inward lust james 1:
14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
The devil was no more in eve as he was not in christ when he was tempted by the devil..
every man says james has his own lust..thats what paul is describing in rom 7:
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
James was describing the flesh of all human beings, the scenario in gen 3 is what james described temptation entices inward lust , as it did with eve..So this proves that adam was created with a sinful nature or else where did the inner lust come from in eve to be attracted to satans temptation ?
Adam was not created with a sin nature.
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