Can I come out as an atheist to my family?

[drich0150]

I've lost faith over a period of several years and I'm now an atheist in the proper sense of the word (I don't believe in God, but I don't pretend to know there's no God).

There's just a handful of people who know about it. The reason I'm not open is because a lot of people, most importantly my parents, believe that I will spend eternity in literal torture if I don't believe. They're getting old and they're pretty protective of their core beliefs so I don't expect them to change their minds on hell before they die. I can imagine how painful it would be for them, especially since I have kids myself.

So I'm basically lying to them. Not directly, but when they ask what church I'm attending and so forth I just mumble something about the latest service I attended (I have a lot of Christian friends and I'm invited to baptisms etc). When I visit my parents I join their prayer groups and gatherings, trying to avoid attention and questions.

Had they asked me flat out, I'd probably lie, or at least sugar coat my lack of faith so it sounded like I'm just not sure what denomination is right.

So I feel like I'm fooling them, but being honest would destroy them. I could be sick or dead and they would be able to find some measure of comfort somewhere. But not if they believe I'm going to hell forever. My own personal life has never been better, but at the same time I'm basically a fraud when I'm with my family, and it's breaking my heart.

So break theirs.. I have work with new atheists for the past idk 10/15 years? I found conversion is usually about them. their personal lives their personal beliefs the freedom from obligation.. and like you want to be rid of the guilt, but still feel obligation. this is almost like when people come out of the closet. same thing.. same reasons.. your new morality will always demand you honor yourself first. so until you start burning bridges you will never be truly rid of your christianity. So if this is the direction you are going then it is best to be self righteous as possible so as to minunmins your hurt and hide any shame you might still be feeling, and learn to embrace this sense of freedom you think you get being apart from God.

So let me ask was it because God was never there (my money on that because you claim not to know if yes or no) or was it a philosophical decision/no evidence bible has problems ect..

Now what if I could tell/teach you how to tap into God's promise of the Holy Spirit would you follow through? meaning what if I could show you how to sit yourself before God the Spirit and have an audience with Him? would you go, or is there a list of things you need to see/hoops God needs to jump through first?

 

[Chinchilla]

Your parents should separate themselfes from you for thier own good , maybe thier child will go back some day like prodigal son but the sooner you tell them the better


2 Corinthians 6:14-18 King James Version (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

 

[holo]

You did not include honesty in your explanation of what makes something good or bad. What you told me about your basic philosophy of morality seems to indeed be really that easy. What I would be ok with is irrelevant as my moral compass is not what we are discussing. Perhaps you might wish to rethink where your basic moral direction comes from as your post here is out of synch with the simple joy /good , suffering /bad. There seems to be things you value morally that don't fit into that template because you are conflicted by something that would not be conflicting if your moral compass was based upon that dichotomy. Perhaps that dichotomy is a result of your moral underpinning rather than the cause of it. I do believe that if one can fully understand one's own motivations and one's own basic assumptions about life and morality one will be able to find peace with one's decisions or change one's course to do so.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Sure, I can always get at better understanding of my own motivations, and this thread has been useful in that regard. And yes, I can have peace with my decisions whether or not they turn out to be wise or not (that's something I've learned from studying secular Buddhism btw). But in any case I want to find the best solution, what is best morally. I think I'll have to find some sort of compromise between the different values at stake here.

Obviously joy vs. suffering is an extremely simplified description, and I didn't mean that that's what constitutes my morality, only that "joy is better than suffering" is the closest I can get to some sort of "objective" basis for morality.

 

[holo]

So break theirs.. I have work with new atheists for the past idk 10/15 years? I found conversion is usually about them. their personal lives their personal beliefs the freedom from obligation.. and like you want to be rid of the guilt, but still feel obligation. this is almost like when people come out of the closet. same thing.. same reasons.. your new morality will always demand you honor yourself first. so until you start burning bridges you will never be truly rid of your christianity. So if this is the direction you are going then it is best to be self righteous as possible so as to minunmins your hurt and hide any shame you might still be feeling, and learn to embrace this sense of freedom you think you get being apart from God.

You seem to be making several assumptions about me, and they're wrong. I also sense a condescending attitude, but I hope I'm wrong about that.

I don't know what you mean about my "new morality." My moral values haven't changed.

I have no need to burn any bridges. I'm quite happy to be with my family and other believers. I just wish I could be there without feeling like a fraud since they assume I believe like they do. I don't feel a need to be "rid of my Christianity" either. My history as a believer is valuable in many ways and I wouldn't want to be without it. That said, I'm amazed at how I will sometimes think and even speak in typically Christian terms. Not surprising since I was a believer for about thirty years, but it's kind of funny.

I don't feel any kind of shame about any of this. I'm just conflicted as to how to handle this in the best possible way.

edit: I am embracing my freedom, more and more each day, and the sense of freedom is very real. I don't know why you would say it's something I'm imagining.

So let me ask was it because God was never there (my money on that because you claim not to know if yes or no) or was it a philosophical decision/no evidence bible has problems ect..

Yes, what I believe now is that I didn't in fact experience God but rather my own mind, and interpreted everything according to what I already believed (as we all do - people rarely change their worldview). It wasn't a decision, in fact I lost faith very much against my own will. It was terrifying. It was a process. But yes, philosophically, lack of evidence, the map not matching the terrain, seeing that there were more probable explanations for things, seeing other people believing the craziest things as wholeheartedly as I believed in mine, and so forth.

Now what if I could tell/teach you how to tap into God's promise of the Holy Spirit would you follow through? meaning what if I could show you how to sit yourself before God the Spirit and have an audience with Him? would you go, or is there a list of things you need to see/hoops God needs to jump through first?

Well, I don't know what it would take to convince me that your claims about God are actually true. I assume I must have a certain kind of faith for it to work in the first place, no? I can't answer the question without knowing what you have in mind. So that's one "hoop" I guess.

 

[Chinchilla]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Sure, I can always get at better understanding of my own motivations, and this thread has been useful in that regard. And yes, I can have peace with my decisions whether or not they turn out to be wise or not (that's something I've learned from studying secular Buddhism btw). But in any case I want to find the best solution, what is best morally. I think I'll have to find some sort of compromise between the different values at stake here.

Obviously joy vs. suffering is an extremely simplified description, and I didn't mean that that's what constitutes my morality, only that "joy is better than suffering" is the closest I can get to some sort of "objective" basis for morality.

When you abandon your faith you also abandon the Christian values , meaning it's you now who decide what is good or bad for you . If God was not enought for your base of moral values then other human beings won't be either , only your own judgements produce your own moral values , waste of time to ask others.

Also joy and suffering aren't exclusive , much suffering can bring joy , for example woman giving birth , she can break half her teeth and knowing that she won't be in such shape like she was before pregnancy but the joy of having child is compensating this which was lost .

 

[holo]

When you abandon your faith you also abandon the Christian values , meaning it's you now who decide what is good or bad for you . If God was not enought for your base of moral values then other human beings won't be either , only your own judgements produce your own moral values , waste of time to ask others.

My moral values haven't changed. If anything, morality is clearer to me now, because I don't do anything out of fear of being punished by God or in order to get a reward from him.

 

[Chinchilla]

My moral values haven't changed. If anything, morality is clearer to me now, because I don't do anything out of fear of being punished by God or in order to get a reward from him.

If they haven't changed then you are still Christian because they are based on existence of God .
No god = no moral laws = no good or bad = everything is your opinion

 

[holo]

If they haven't changed then you are still Christian because they are based on existence of God .
No god = no moral laws = no good or bad = everything is your opinion

I don't understand what you're saying. Everybody has morals (maybe except an extreme psychopath). That doesn't make them Christians.

But yes, if there is no god, I don't see how there can be a moral law in the true sense. But I nevertheless have a sense of right and wrong, good and bad, just like everybody else. I just can't argue for it with "because God said so."

 

[holo]

To the mods: If you feel like this thread is starting to break the rules, I would really like to continue it in another forum. So I hope in that case you can move it or split the thread.

 

[Chinchilla]

I don't understand what you're saying. Everybody has morals (maybe except an extreme psychopath). That doesn't make them Christians.

But yes, if there is no god, I don't see how there can be a moral law in the true sense. But I nevertheless have a sense of right and wrong, good and bad, just like everybody else. I just can't argue for it with "because God said so."

Not really , everybody has presuppositions but not everybody has morals .
If you ask me i'd impale every criminal myself with bare hands but I don't do that because I base my morality on God from Bible .

Some people for example live in tribes and they don't eat each other in thier tribe , but they don't count the other tribes as family and will capture such and do sacrifice of living human heart .

objective moral values do not exist without God . If there was no God nothing stops me from shoting you to win the argument . Why shouldn't I shot you ? And don't tell me everybody would say to not shot you , what if everybody said to shot you , would it be then moral to do so ?

Does majority cause some opinions to be more valid than others and that's what you call morality ?

 

[Dirk1540]

My moral values haven't changed. If anything, morality is clearer to me now, because I don't do anything out of fear of being punished by God or in order to get a reward from him.

I don’t think this is a good way for Christians to live either though. Just saying.

Just to put into some perspective for you the different ways to look at the glass being half full vs the glass being half empty...there’s a member in here who’s a brilliant philosopher who is a Christian seeker, several times she has said “I want Christianity to be true but I just think it sounds way too good to be true.”

 

[Chinchilla]

I don’t think this is a good way for Christians to live either though. Just saying.

Just to put into some perspective for you the different ways to look at the glass being half full vs the glass being half empty...there’s a member in here who’s a brilliant philosopher who is a Christian seeker, several times she has said “I want Christianity to be true but I just think it sounds way too good to be true.”

Glass always full , half water half air .

 

[ViaCrucis]

I've lost faith over a period of several years and I'm now an atheist in the proper sense of the word (I don't believe in God, but I don't pretend to know there's no God).

There's just a handful of people who know about it. The reason I'm not open is because a lot of people, most importantly my parents, believe that I will spend eternity in literal torture if I don't believe. They're getting old and they're pretty protective of their core beliefs so I don't expect them to change their minds on hell before they die. I can imagine how painful it would be for them, especially since I have kids myself.

So I'm basically lying to them. Not directly, but when they ask what church I'm attending and so forth I just mumble something about the latest service I attended (I have a lot of Christian friends and I'm invited to baptisms etc). When I visit my parents I join their prayer groups and gatherings, trying to avoid attention and questions.

Had they asked me flat out, I'd probably lie, or at least sugar coat my lack of faith so it sounded like I'm just not sure what denomination is right.

So I feel like I'm fooling them, but being honest would destroy them. I could be sick or dead and they would be able to find some measure of comfort somewhere. But not if they believe I'm going to hell forever. My own personal life has never been better, but at the same time I'm basically a fraud when I'm with my family, and it's breaking my heart.

I don't know if any of us here are fully equipped to answer this question for you, ultimately you're the only one that knows the particular dynamics of your own familial relationships.

I would think it better to be honest, but I understand the stress here. The most hopeful outcome would be being honest with your folks, and while they may be heart broken about your loss of faith, their love of you would get past that somehow, at least in their relationship with you. If they believe that this means you are hopelessly hell-bound, it would also likely mean a lot of effort to bring you back to the faith, and depending on how they go about doing that could strain the relationship.

I don't think there's an easy solution, but I do think honesty is, ultimately, best. If only just for the sake of your own conscience.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Jesus Christ did not talk more about the "outer darkness where there will be gnawing and gnashing of teeth' for nothing.

That's an often repeated statement, but isn't actually true. There are a handful of times Jesus talks about the fate of the wicked in Gehenna, but the overwhelming majority of what Jesus talks about is God's kingdom, the kingdom was the central concern of Jesus' public ministry, from His baptism in the Jordan right up until His death, resurrection, and ascension through His teaching, parables, and miraculous works.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[holo]

Not really , everybody has presuppositions but not everybody has morals .
If you ask me i'd impale every criminal myself with bare hands but I don't do that because I base my morality on God from Bible .

Fair enough. The reason I don't do it because even though I really feel like some people deserve death, I think it's better to have an impersonal and independent system of law and justice that will judge them according to the law.

Some people for example live in tribes and they don't eat each other in thier tribe , but they don't count the other tribes as family and will capture such and do sacrifice of living human heart .

And I would argue that such as thing is wrong. I can't point to some objective morality, but then neither can you. Your reason, if I understand you right, isn't because it's morally wrong per se, but because God said so. In other words, had God said that it was good to kill infants, then it would be in fact good to kill infants.

Correct me if I'm getting you wrong.

objective moral values do not exist without God . If there was no God nothing stops me from shoting you to win the argument . Why shouldn't I shot you ?

It's your sense of morality that's stopping you, not God. Whether or not God exists, you have a sense that it would be wrong.

When I'm good to people, it's simply because I believe it's the right thing to do. It's not because I believe God has ordered me to, or to gain his favour or to avoid his punishment.

Does majority cause some opinions to be more valid than others and that's what you call morality ?

Certainly not. I believe that slavery is wrong even though most people supported it at one time. I believe better knowledge leads to better morals. For instance when a primitive tribe is made aware of the fact that the other tribes are just as human as they are, they are more likely to think of them as equally worthy. In a sense, "bad morals" is simply a consequence of ignorance.

 

[holo]

I don’t think this is a good way for Christians to live either though. Just saying.

Agree 100%. The best time of my life as a believer was when it finally dawned on me that I was 100% clean, righteous, forgiven, holy, completely regardless of what I did or did not do. Interestingly, that revelation (it most definitely felt like one), made me behave better than ever. I became much less judgmental and much more sharing and loving when I realized I didn't have to try to earn God's favour or be afraid of his punishment. I really miss believing that. I had the best possible news to tell people!

Just to put into some perspective for you the different ways to look at the glass being half full vs the glass being half empty...there’s a member in here who’s a brilliant philosopher who is a Christian seeker, several times she has said “I want Christianity to be true but I just think it sounds way too good to be true.”

I know what he means... the simple gospel without the countless legalistic add-ons is just mindblowing. And it works! It sets people from from condemnation and addiction and fear and everything. It's such a radical message that I find it almost unbelievable that a human could even come up with it. I root for anyone who's preaching the simple gospel that sets people free.

 

[Chinchilla]

In other words, had God said that it was good to kill infants, then it would be in fact good to kill infants.

Correct me if I'm getting you wrong.

If God exist he must be morally perfect or else he can't be the God with big G , because something else greater than him in such aspect would take it's place , since God can't evolve himself because he is eternal it's impossible for him to not be perfect alredy .

Basically if unbeliever makes any truth claim he assumes that the universe is guided with some force to make it stable and logic or else we can't argue and can't be sure if tommorow will be like today . If things could appear from nothing into existence not guided by any laws then could not observe such stable things in our lifes .

 

[holo]

If God exist he must be morally perfect or else he can't be the God with big G , because something else greater than him in such aspect would take it's place , since God can't evolve himself because he is eternal it's impossible for him to not be perfect alredy .

I wouldn't know. For all I know God may be dead, or evil, or there may be another God above him that not even he knows about, or there may be several gods. I don't see why God, if he exists, must necessarily be morally perfect according to our understanding of morality. Also, it seems to imply that morality itself exists apart from God - how can God be moral if he himself decides what morality is?

Basically if unbeliever makes any truth claim he assumes that the universe is guided with some force to make it stable and logic or else we can't argue and can't be sure if tommorow will be like today . If things could appear from nothing into existence not guided by any laws then could not observe such stable things in our lifes .

Yes, as far as I can tell, the universe does seem to follow certain rules, or laws if you will. But that doesn't really make Christianity more believable for me.

 

[Dirk1540]

If I may butt into the objective morality discussion as related to disturbing tribal practices. I believe there’s a very important caveat to point out, I believe that the objective morality argument can only pertain to a person’s DEFAULT morals.

I imagine very young children in such tribes as being extremely disturbed at what they are ‘Taught’ to no longer be disturbed about. And a lot of people can be indoctrinated SO young that they have no memory at all about some of their default morals. Having said that I’m not siding with nurture over nature...I believe the nature vs nurture argument can’t be won because it’s a mixture of both.

 

[NBB]

I am embracing my freedom, more and more each day, and the sense of freedom is very real. I don't know why you would say it's something I'm imagining.

Ironically, only Jesus can give true freedom, if you are not with him, you are under the devils influence, and if you sin you are an slave to sin, and when problems hits and life seems grim you don't have someone superior to your problems to go to.