Can I come out as an atheist to my family?

[holo]

The Lord solves each and every problem for me. Why would I stop listening to him?

If he does indeed do that then by all means continue to listen. I'm not here to convert anybody (and besides that would be against the rules )

But I don't have the same experience as you. I wholeheartedly believed I did, but I found out there were much more probable and reasonable explanations for what happened (and didn't happen) in my life than, basically, "God did it" or "the devil did it". For example, when I stopped praying, nothing at all changed. No change in the amount of good things or bad things in the lives of me and those around me. So the natural conclusion was that my prayers didn't in fact change a darn thing. The next question: why? Well, one answer that I never dared contemplate before was that maybe it's because prayer does not in fact work. Maybe the most reasonable explanation was that I believed in something that wasn't real. I couldn't go on in that kind of faith honestly.

But again, you may have much better reason to believe than I had.

 

[holo]

Your story surprises me, because after knowing God, as if he did things to you like feeling his presence, or the Holy spirit and other things, then to deny that is like denying you have eyes. If God manifested to you spiritually, then becomes impossibe to deny he exists afterwards. I say you touched the tip of the iceberg with God but not saw the whole thing.

Believe me, it's so strange to be on the other side of faith. How incredibly different everything looks, yet the world is exactly the same.

 

[akaDaScribe]

You are in an interesting place. Do you believe in God?

 

[holo]

You are in an interesting place. Do you believe in God?

Not for the time being. Or at least not that I'm aware of - if my child is about to be run over by a car I wouldn't be surprised if I cried out to God, but I don't know if that means I have some actual faith in me still.

 

[NBB]

Believe me, it's so strange to be on the other side of faith. How incredibly different everything looks, yet the world is exactly the same.

For me like i said you saw the tip of the iceberg and not experienced God enough, because christianity is not about having blind faith and religious beliefs, God manifest himself to us spiritually once he does, you just can't deny him. Is like denying the obvious once that happens, maybe you can keep the door open and look for God a bit more? there is spiritual benefits to being a christian you can't find anywhere else in this world.

 

[akaDaScribe]

Not for the time being. Or at least not that I'm aware of - if my child is about to be run over by a car I wouldn't be surprised if I cried out to God, but I don't know if that means I have some actual faith in me still.

How did you conclude that there is no God?

 

[holo]

How did you conclude that there is no God?

I haven't concluded there is no God, I just don't have sufficient reason to believe. I used to be sure I did, it was like I saw God everywhere. There was no way all those things I experienced could be anything but God. Until I realised that, well, there was a way all those things could be something other than God if I dared to take a more sceptical look at things and not automatically interpret everything from a believer's point of view.

 

[NBB]

I haven't concluded there is no God, I just don't have sufficient reason to believe. I used to be sure I did, it was like I saw God everywhere. There was no way all those things I experienced could be anything but God. Until I realised that, well, there was a way all those things could be something other than God if I dared to take a more sceptical look at things and not automatically interpret everything from a believer's point of view.

You definitely don't have experienced the power of the Holy spirit or his presence then or the supernatural love that he puts in our hearts.

 

[akaDaScribe]

I haven't concluded there is no God, I just don't have sufficient reason to believe. I used to be sure I did, it was like I saw God everywhere. There was no way all those things I experienced could be anything but God. Until I realised that, well, there was a way all those things could be something other than God if I dared to take a more sceptical look at things and not automatically interpret everything from a believer's point of view.

So you haven't discounted that it could have been God, but rather you cannot make yourself believe it was God when you know that it could have happened anyway, correct?

 

[Dirk1540]

How does everyone just skim passed this one?

The emotions, the (perceived) answered prayers, having my life completely transformed by the gospel, feeling loved and guided by the Lord, all that. Speaking in tongues, too, for those who may think that's a sure sign of being saved.

I’ve never heard of an atheist saying “Yeah Yeah, I spoke in tongues, whatever.”

I kept thinking that one of these days in this forum I would get into it with a Christian about speaking in tongues because I don’t understand it. But I never imagined I’d ever ask an atheist, I’ve never known an atheist who wasn’t both a materialist and an empiricist. But don’t get me started on the meaning of ‘God’, IMO there’s no such thing as not believing in God (since something exists rather than nothing) and for a materialist ‘God’ would be the laws of physics, but anyway...

What do you mean by speaking in tongues? I heard someone not too long ago say that they were both mysteriously speaking to and listening to (and understanding) each other in Sumerian. Is that how you mean it? Because I’ve spoken to tons of atheists so I know their arguments, I would find it very strange if someone told me that they once, under the context of praising Jesus Christ, mysteriously spoke and comprehended Sumerian...but that they are an atheist. That would be a first for me.

 

[holo]

You definitely don't have experienced the power of the Holy spirit or his presence then or the supernatural love that he puts in our hearts.

Well, I actually agree with you here, now I don't believe I in fact experienced the Spirit. But I'm 100% sure that had you met me a few years ago, neither of us would have doubted that I had.

 

[holo]

So you haven't discounted that it could have been God, but rather you cannot make yourself believe it was God when you know that it could have happened anyway, correct?

Yes, basically. A factor in that was seeing how utterly convinced people are of other supernatural things. People will feel their chakras opening up and experience things that are just typical of this or that astrology sign, and so forth. A lot of people talk about how their kids get a sugar rush even though science has clearly shown that it's not even a thing. Heck, I even know adult people, atheists even, who will actually knock on wood. People will see connection and meaning where there is none.

 

[holo]

How does everyone just skim passed this one?


I’ve never heard of an atheist saying “Yeah Yeah, I spoke in tongues, whatever.”

I kept thinking that one of these days in this forum I would get into it with a Christian about speaking in tongues because I don’t understand it. But I never imagined I’d ever ask an atheist, I’ve never known an atheist who wasn’t both a materialist and an empiricist. But don’t get me started on the meaning of ‘God’, IMO there’s no such thing as not believing in God (since something exists rather than nothing) and for a materialist ‘God’ would be the laws of physics, but anyway...

What do you mean by speaking in tongues? I heard someone not too long ago say that they were both mysteriously speaking to and listening to (and understanding) each other in Sumerian. Is that how you mean it? Because I’ve spoken to tons of atheists so I know their arguments, I would find it very strange if someone told me that they once, under the context of praising Jesus Christ, mysteriously spoke and comprehended Sumerian...but that they are an atheist. That would be a first for me.

I never understood what I or the others were saying when we spoke in tongues, but sometimes someone would have a translation. I would often feel calmer and emboldened by praying in tongues. I can still do it by the way, it sounds exactly like before. From the Christian perspective I guess that's a sign that either the Spirit is still in me, or it was never there to begin with.

 

[Dirk1540]

I never understood what I or the others were saying when we spoke in tongues, but sometimes someone would have a translation. I would often feel calmer and emboldened by praying in tongues. I can still do it by the way, it sounds exactly like before. From the Christian perspective I guess that's a sign that either the Spirit is still in me, or it was never there to begin with.

So it’s a script of some kind that you learned? My dad used to fake sing in some weird gibberish way, but maybe they were foreign phrases that he picked up when he was in the Navy. It sounded smooth though. So sometimes I tried to imitate him and sing in gibberish but it sounded anything but smooth. It was all broken up stuttering. Did your church actually sound like everyone was speaking smoothly? If all you did was just ad lib a bunch of gibberish I still wouldn’t be able to do that lol.

Only 1 time did someone personally tell me that they spoke in tongues, I followed the guy around asking him what he means, he just told me that a bunch of people at church were grabbing hands and ‘Something Happened.’ Yes that’s all he told me, he really left me hanging on that explanation. Anyway, if you’re an atheist I definitely had to ask.

As for your OP, if it were me nah I wouldn’t even say anything unless I was really being pressed. My mom read the Bible a lot and this actually was my situation too because years ago I went in & out of faith a lot. When I was in my phases of non-belief I never told her that I didn’t believe anymore. I don’t know it kind of had the same feeling to it like I was about to tell a kid that Santa wasn’t real, it just would have felt awkward.

 

[holo]

I'm not totally convinced I won't ever believe again, but I am sure I can't go back to the exact same faith I had before. I think my new faith would have a rather different view on who and how God is, and probably ways of understanding the scriptures that I haven't even thought of yet. I also think I'll be a least as sceptical as I am now, toward all the claims about how God did this and that in people's lives. I mean, people will credit God for getting them a job, or sustaining them while they're unemployed, but the fact is that sometimes people get lucky and sometimes they don't, and we just can't pinpoint exactly why things happen. I certainly wouldn't go "inserting" God into my emotions and life experiences like I did before, just because I wanted and expected him to be there. So it would at least be a more honest and critical kind of faith.

Maybe I could tell my family something along those lines. That I'm sort of in a process of weeding out all the unfounded stuff from my faith, trying to get to the core.

 

[Dirk1540]

Well there’s definitely a difference between giving up the Bible, and becoming more of a critical Bible believer. I definitely lean towards a more critical approach compared to other Christians (as far as evidence goes). I definitely spot the forest way more than I can spot the tree. My ‘Evidence’ via personal experience has always been a matter of being internally moved through prayer (to a shockingly convincing degree!), however, as for spotting God in day to day occurrences, I’m pretty much blind as a bat on that one! And then after personal experience it had been historical studies and philosophy where I find my intellectual comfort level.

But yeah things like seeing God operating in my day to day life? You’d probably have a hard time telling me apart from an atheist in that category. One friend of mine makes me scratch my head, he claims that he can decipher God in nearly any situation...I can’t tell at all. I’m not saying that God can’t be doing things in my life, but I almost always have no clue how you can possibly tell.

Of course I don’t feel comfortable saying that because that’s the case for me that that’s true for everyone, I can only speak for myself. I would not claim to want to dispute anyone who claims that they can see God working in their life, but like I said I’m blind as a bat with that situation.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

For example, when I stopped praying, nothing at all changed. No change in the amount of good things or bad things in the lives of me and those around me. So the natural conclusion was that my prayers didn't in fact change a darn thing.

What sort of stuff were you praying for? We don't always have prayers answered with a 'yes', but if you never see specific answers, I wonder if you maybe weren't praying specific prayers - or maybe just using prayer as a 'slot machine'? (If I say this often enough, something will happen) It's something I am often guilty of - but 'real' praying - stuff happens!

I never understood what I or the others were saying when we spoke in tongues, but sometimes someone would have a translation. I would often feel calmer and emboldened by praying in tongues. I can still do it by the way, it sounds exactly like before. From the Christian perspective I guess that's a sign that either the Spirit is still in me, or it was never there to begin with.

No. Praying in tongues is real, but it is also something that is easy to fake. I'm not saying that everyone who fakes it does so deliberately, but sometimes people can be so desperate for it to happen, that they just make themselves speak gibberish. I've heard a lot of the 'gibberish' type praying, and it usually comes with one of those vague interpretations along the lines of 'God loves you, God wants you to be close to Him' which is great, but something we all know from the Bible anyway. But I've also heard praying in a language I don't understand, but which sounds like a real language - you can pick up the phrases and sentence structures. And the interpretation 'links in' with this - e.g. a repetitive phrase is used several times in the tongue and a repetitive phrase is also used in the interpretation. And it is very specific. I also know of people who speak a language and have heard that language being prayed by someone who doesn't speak it. Hard to argue round something like that.

I'm wondering if you have been basing your faith on what other people are doing instead of who God is? Because people can intentionally or unintentionally mislead us, but God never does.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The short answer is I don't know. I can't point to some ultimate and objective source for morality. And if the source is God, I'm not really much wiser, because then the question is the classic "is it good because God said so, or did God say so because it is good?" (In other words; if morality exists apart from God, then he himself is subject to it, and where did it come from - and if morality originates with God, then it's not really morality, it's just whatever happens to be God's will.)

So if someone asks me why something is wrong or right, I can't give a truly true answer. But neither can Christians or anybody else. But we all have morality, it's not something we can escape. The closest I can get to some "ultimate" reason is because suffering is bad and joy is good.

Though I do not agree with the idea that morality is not morality if it is based upon God's Will, I did not ask you to agree with my take I asked for yours . Now, let us examine your situation in light of what you say is the closest you can identify as the basis for your moral compass. Suffering is bad and joy is good. Seems to me a no brainer then that you do not tell your family something that decreases their joy and increases their suffering.

 

[holo]

Teems to me a no brainer then that you do not tell your family something that decreases their joy and increases their suffering.

But is it really that easy? Would it be ok if someone lied to you all your life as long as the lie made you happy?

Making people feel better may be a virtue, but so is telling the truth. I figure in my case I'm doing the least amount of damage by lying. I figure their happiness is worth more than me getting to be open and honest about who I am.

 

[grasping the after wind]

But is it really that easy? Would it be ok if someone lied to you all your life as long as the lie made you happy?

Making people feel better may be a virtue, but so is telling the truth. I figure in my case I'm doing the least amount of damage by lying. I figure their happiness is worth more than me getting to be open and honest about who I am.

You did not include honesty in your explanation of what makes something good or bad. What you told me about your basic philosophy of morality seems to indeed be really that easy. What I would be ok with is irrelevant as my moral compass is not what we are discussing. Perhaps you might wish to rethink where your basic moral direction comes from as your post here is out of synch with the simple joy /good , suffering /bad. There seems to be things you value morally that don't fit into that template because you are conflicted by something that would not be conflicting if your moral compass was based upon that dichotomy. Perhaps that dichotomy is a result of your moral underpinning rather than the cause of it. I do believe that if one can fully understand one's own motivations and one's own basic assumptions about life and morality one will be able to find peace with one's decisions or change one's course to do so.