Can I come out as an atheist to my family?

[akaDaScribe]

Yes, basically. A factor in that was seeing how utterly convinced people are of other supernatural things. People will feel their chakras opening up and experience things that are just typical of this or that astrology sign, and so forth. A lot of people talk about how their kids get a sugar rush even though science has clearly shown that it's not even a thing. Heck, I even know adult people, atheists even, who will actually knock on wood. People will see connection and meaning where there is none.

Holo,

It sounds to me like what you really need is some space to figure things out. You want to tell your family the truth because you value the truth. Jesus said that he is the way, the truth, and the life. If that is the case, by relentlessly seeking the truth, you would find Him.

There does come a point in the life of anyone who contemplates their existence and hungers for truth when the question emerges: Do I really believe what I’ve been told, or am I just going along with the tradition of my fathers?

My journey was similar to yours. I was raised in the church, I believed there might be something, but I did not really believe it. That is to say, I wanted to believe, but I did not. It was not that I did not believe there was something more, but rather, I did not believe they had it right. I found the concept of accepting Christ and loving someone I didn’t even know irreconcilable. At the same time, I believed in the possibility of it being right enough that it bothered me that I did not believe.

When I moved out, I decided that I was not going to torture myself over something I simply didn’t believe. I resolved within myself that if there is a God, he gets it and if he didn’t, there was nothing I could do about it anyway because pretending to believe is not believing.

I hope this post isn’t too too long. I’m cutting out a lot to keep it shorter. J

Anyway, one day I decided I wanted to know if there was really a God or not. It was a scary thought to find out there is no God, but I figured it was better to know the truth regardless of what it was and accept the truth regardless of what it was. The truth became more important to me than what I wanted to believe.

Is this where you are?

 

[Loren T.]

IDK, Holo. The way you come across, I have a hard time believing you don't believe deep down. Might be just a doubting phase that we all go through at some point. But, either way, I'm going to pray God keeps right on chasing you whatever you decide.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I have a bunch of siblings, I guess mum and dad were too embarrased to buy contraceptives. Small town.

I know they'll accept me and love me. In a way that's what makes it so hard. Anger and disappointment would be easier to deal with than heartbreak.

I sometimes wonder if all these Christian parents actually believe in literal torment, that it's a real possibility their children will end up there. I think at the very least you'd have to push it really far back in your mind if you're going to have children. I mean, if I knew (not as in knowing some trivial fact, but was acutely aware of it), that my child would have, say a 1/1000.000.000.000 chance of spending all of eternity in literal torture, I don't see how I could ever dare to have kids at all. People will think twice about having kids if there's an increased risk of hereditary disease. I guess the typical idea of hell is just so horrible that most Christians just sort shut it out.

My parents (and I, unfortunately) have read a LOT of accounts of people who supposedly went to hell.

On the contrary, your prayers mean a lot to me and I really appreciate it even if I doubt they'll make an actual difference in the spiritual realm.

And yes, I had the best time of my life as a believer (when I was freed from legalism and had a whole new experience of grace). I now have peace again and I wouldn't trade my current life for what I had. I'm pretty sure if I told my family I'm perfectly happy as an agnostic, they wouldn't believe me, because in their worldview, you simply can't have real peace without "being right with God."

My wife and I have considered this possibility. We still want to have children even if they don't end up becoming Christians. I can see your argument that if it is true that if they don't accept Jesus than they will ultimately spend eternity in the lake of fire and it would be selfish of us to make babies only to have them not accept Jesus in the end. But, there's always that chance that they will accept Jesus and we get to spend eternity with our children. Also, we could offer them a lifetime of love and happiness no matter what happens. No, we want to have children. We just haven't been blessed by God yet. I have faith that we will be one day though.

That's cool that you have siblings. I only have the one sister. We don't really talk much despite only living a block and a half from each other. We're sociable to each other when we go over to mom and dads for dinner but other than that... nothing. I had 2 other siblings but they were miscarriages and they never got to see life. I am confident that I will meet my miscarried brothers and sisters in the next life. Are your siblings Christians? If no that could be motivation for you to tell them maybe. Because if they accepted your siblings not being Christians than they should accept you not being a Christian as well. Then again, they could hope that you're one of the only Christian children that they do have. That's a possibility I guess. But anyway, you should tell them regardless they deserve to know. Maybe they could offer you help in your lost faith situation too. I'd tell them that you had faith at one point and then lost it.

I will continue to pray for you then. There are a couple of people here on CF that I pray for who were ex Christians. When people fall away from Christ it kind of breaks my heart because usually it's the best times of our lives when we come to Jesus. I know that since becoming a Christian I am SO much happier now than I was before I accepted Christ. I was kind of miserable actually.

What made you lose your faith? Was it the whole hellfire thing? Or did you find evidence that Jesus didn't exist? I'm curious.

 

[holo]

When I moved out, I decided that I was not going to torture myself over something I simply didn’t believe. I resolved within myself that if there is a God, he gets it and if he didn’t, there was nothing I could do about it anyway because pretending to believe is not believing.

Yes, that's basically my position too. If there is a God I think it's probable that he knows my heart. I take comfort in that. I don't think God will punish me for not being able to choose to believe. And if he does, I don't see what I could do about it anyway.

I hope this post isn’t too too long.

Not at all. I want to know what you guys think. This process has been the loneliest thing I've ever gone through.

Anyway, one day I decided I wanted to know if there was really a God or not. It was a scary thought to find out there is no God, but I figured it was better to know the truth regardless of what it was and accept the truth regardless of what it was. The truth became more important to me than what I wanted to believe.

Is this where you are?

Yes, and it was so incredibly scary to dare to question if God was even there. But in the end I had to do it.

 

[holo]

IDK, Holo. The way you come across, I have a hard time believing you don't believe deep down. Might be just a doubting phase that we all go through at some point. But, either way, I'm going to pray God keeps right on chasing you whatever you decide.

Thank you, I mean that.

"Whatever you decide," you say. I don't think I've decided not to believe. I mean, is it even possible for people to decide to believe in something? Is that true faith, or do we know deep down that we're just entertaining the most comfortable idea? I'm not totally sure. In one sense I did choose this because I decided to dare to question it. At the same time I didn't have much of a choice. I think the doubt would have continued to bother me even as I kept seeking proof and confirmation that God was there.

All the little signs and confirmations that used to sustain my faith wouldn't do it today. It's like I've seen too much (I don't mean that in a condescending way, it's just that as far as I can tell there are better explanations for most of those things). It's kind of like my faith was based on faith, if you know what I mean. It was ultimately based on assumptions, I sort of believed because I believed. I saw God here and there because I expected to. I guess just like most people who believe in anything - it's ultimately because their family or environment believes that thing.

I don't know what it would take to make me believe again. But I assume God would.

 

[holo]

Are your siblings Christians? If no that could be motivation for you to tell them maybe. Because if they accepted your siblings not being Christians than they should accept you not being a Christian as well. Then again, they could hope that you're one of the only Christian children that they do have. That's a possibility I guess. But anyway, you should tell them regardless they deserve to know. Maybe they could offer you help in your lost faith situation too. I'd tell them that you had faith at one point and then lost it

I'm actually not sure about what my siblings believe, some of them I hardly talk to. One of them is a missionary, the others have gone from being more or less "active" Christians to leading regular lives, going to church once in a while, but I think they all have sort of a "basic" faith still. I've told a couple of my sisters who I think don't have the fear of hell as much as the others. I think they just don't know what to say. I was the prodigal son of the family who messed with drugs and attempted suicide and was completely transformed by Jesus and was pretty vocal about it. It must be confusing to say the least.

I will continue to pray for you then. There are a couple of people here on CF that I pray for who were ex Christians. When people fall away from Christ it kind of breaks my heart because usually it's the best times of our lives when we come to Jesus. I know that since becoming a Christian I am SO much happier now than I was before I accepted Christ. I was kind of miserable actually.

Thank you. I remember how amazed I used to be about people losing their faith. How was it even possible? I often thought they hadn't actually lost faith, but were probably just angry at God or something (sometimes it's obvious that that's the case).

I guess most Christians won't believe it's actually true, but I do have peace now with being an agnostic. I no longer believe we can't truly have peace without God.

What made you lose your faith? Was it the whole hellfire thing? Or did you find evidence that Jesus didn't exist? I'm curious.

I gradually began seeing more convincing explanations for the things I took as evidence for God. I can share a little story about one of those times [cue tingling sound effect].

I was bit by an animal and went to the ER to get a tetanus shot. They told me to stay there for 20 minutes after in case I had an allergic reaction to the shot. I knew I wouldn't, because I had the same shot years earlier (they say you should get a new one every ten years), but I stayed like they said. I began thinking about what it would be like to have an allergic reaction. Just pondering it. Soon I began feeling dizzy and weak. I knew all the time that I was feeling it because I was thinking about it and imagining it. After not too long I could hardly stand up and almost fell. So I decided to snap out of it and voila, I was back to normal. That little experience started a thought: If I can influence how my own body feels, to such a degree that I'm feeling physically sick - even when know I'm playing a trick on myself - then what was all those goosebumps during worship and the tears when I prayed and all the "mmm yes I feel that sanctioning in my heart, brother"? It dawned on me that I had tremendous power to make myself feel things, probably even more so when I wanted to feel them and I and everyone around me expected me to. I realised that I needed to find out if all my experiences with faith were genuine. If I'm going to believe, I'm going to do it for good reasons.

I also began noticing how we would always "help" God manifest himself, inserting him as an explanation for basically whatever good thing that happened. I began wondering if God was OK with us giving him credit for all kinds of things we didn't have good reason to credit him for. You know, if the unbelieving neighbour got lucky it was conincidence; if I got lucky it was an act of God. It was like if it honours God it can't be wrong.

But anyway, lots of things like that, over a period of several years, and God seeming to be more silent the more I was seeking him. I thought I'm going to try and strip away everything in my faith that is not God. I want to get rid of all the tradition, preconceptions, wishful thinking, assumptions, the confirmation bias etc. But the more I do that, the less God I see :/

 

[holo]

Ironically, only Jesus can give true freedom, if you are not with him, you are under the devils influence, and if you sin you are an slave to sin, and when problems hits and life seems grim you don't have someone superior to your problems to go to.

Well I obviously can't prove to you that I have peace and a sense of freedom like never before (I have struggles, like this whole thing about coming out to my family, but I have a peace and a sense of freedom that goes deeper than everyday problems and emotions). I know what you mean, and I used to agree

When life gets hard I have many ways of helping me out. Meditation has helped me tremendously in dealing with problems. And I have my friends and family, and hey, I have CF. I've gotten a lot of love and support and wisdom just in this thread. It's taking weight off my shoulders.

 

[Chinchilla]

I wouldn't know. For all I know God may be dead, or evil, or there may be another God above him that not even he knows about, or there may be several gods. I don't see why God, if he exists, must necessarily be morally perfect according to our understanding of morality. Also, it seems to imply that morality itself exists apart from God - how can God be moral if he himself decides what morality is?

Even if God was evil , then evil would be good and good would be evil so it's pointless reasoning because his nature decides what is good and evil .

You don't get rid of morality if you deny existance of God , you simply change the judge from God to yourself . Why should everybody else think like yourself and why do you think your moral values are superior to somebody's else ?

 

[holo]

Even if God was evil , then evil would be good and good would be evil so it's pointless reasoning because his nature decides what is good and evil .

Again: if so, then things aren't morally right or wrong in and of themselves, they're just God's commands.

You don't get rid of morality if you deny existance of God , you simply change the judge from God to yourself . Why should everybody else think like yourself and why do you think your moral values are superior to somebody's else ?

I can ask you the same thing. Why do you think your moral values are superior to anybody else's?

If you didn't believe in God, would you think murder was good?

 

[Larniavc]

I've lost faith over a period of several years and I'm now an atheist in the proper sense of the word (I don't believe in God, but I don't pretend to know there's no God).

There's just a handful of people who know about it. The reason I'm not open is because a lot of people, most importantly my parents, believe that I will spend eternity in literal torture if I don't believe. They're getting old and they're pretty protective of their core beliefs so I don't expect them to change their minds on hell before they die. I can imagine how painful it would be for them, especially since I have kids myself.

So I'm basically lying to them. Not directly, but when they ask what church I'm attending and so forth I just mumble something about the latest service I attended (I have a lot of Christian friends and I'm invited to baptisms etc). When I visit my parents I join their prayer groups and gatherings, trying to avoid attention and questions.

Had they asked me flat out, I'd probably lie, or at least sugar coat my lack of faith so it sounded like I'm just not sure what denomination is right.

So I feel like I'm fooling them, but being honest would destroy them. I could be sick or dead and they would be able to find some measure of comfort somewhere. But not if they believe I'm going to hell forever. My own personal life has never been better, but at the same time I'm basically a fraud when I'm with my family, and it's breaking my heart.

I may not be allowed to post so I’ve redacted my comment.

 

[Chinchilla]

Again: if so, then things aren't morally right or wrong in and of themselves, they're just God's commands.

Yes so if he exist that's the scary part . I don't agree with God myself but that does not cause me to not believe he does not exist because I base my faith on the evidence which he provided .

 

[Neostarwcc]

I'm actually not sure about what my siblings believe, some of them I hardly talk to. One of them is a missionary, the others have gone from being more or less "active" Christians to leading regular lives, going to church once in a while, but I think they all have sort of a "basic" faith still. I've told a couple of my sisters who I think don't have the fear of hell as much as the others. I think they just don't know what to say. I was the prodigal son of the family who messed with drugs and attempted suicide and was completely transformed by Jesus and was pretty vocal about it. It must be confusing to say the least.Thank you. I remember how amazed I used to be about people losing their faith. How was it even possible? I often thought they hadn't actually lost faith, but were probably just angry at God or something (sometimes it's obvious that that's the case).

I guess most Christians won't believe it's actually true, but I do have peace now with being an agnostic. I no longer believe we can't truly have peace without God.I gradually began seeing more convincing explanations for the things I took as evidence for God. I can share a little story about one of those times [cue tingling sound effect].

I was bit by an animal and went to the ER to get a tetanus shot. They told me to stay there for 20 minutes after in case I had an allergic reaction to the shot. I knew I wouldn't, because I had the same shot years earlier (they say you should get a new one every ten years), but I stayed like they said. I began thinking about what it would be like to have an allergic reaction. Just pondering it. Soon I began feeling dizzy and weak. I knew all the time that I was feeling it because I was thinking about it and imagining it. After not too long I could hardly stand up and almost fell. So I decided to snap out of it and voila, I was back to normal. That little experience started a thought: If I can influence how my own body feels, to such a degree that I'm feeling physically sick - even when know I'm playing a trick on myself - then what was all those goosebumps during worship and the tears when I prayed and all the "mmm yes I feel that sanctioning in my heart, brother"? It dawned on me that I had tremendous power to make myself feel things, probably even more so when I wanted to feel them and I and everyone around me expected me to. I realised that I needed to find out if all my experiences with faith were genuine. If I'm going to believe, I'm going to do it for good reasons.

I also began noticing how we would always "help" God manifest himself, inserting him as an explanation for basically whatever good thing that happened. I began wondering if God was OK with us giving him credit for all kinds of things we didn't have good reason to credit him for. You know, if the unbelieving neighbour got lucky it was conincidence; if I got lucky it was an act of God. It was like if it honours God it can't be wrong.

But anyway, lots of things like that, over a period of several years, and God seeming to be more silent the more I was seeking him. I thought I'm going to try and strip away everything in my faith that is not God. I want to get rid of all the tradition, preconceptions, wishful thinking, assumptions, the confirmation bias etc. But the more I do that, the less God I see :/

Oh, so it wasn't just losing your faith that Jesus exists or existed it was more along the lines of "The miracles that I experienced weren't really miracles from God at all." I can see that. But, I believe they were miracles from God. See, when I was an atheist for most of my life I believed that Jesus existed as an historical figure but I didn't believe that he was God in the flesh or any of the things that I believe today. I believed that he was crucified but I didn't believe that he died for the sins of the world or anything like that. I didn't pick up a bible until I was like 28 years old. But, Jesus has given me many signs that he exists including showing himself to me in a dream when I asked for evidence of God's existence.

Unlike most people I actually got to witness myself be born again the day I came to Jesus. So, I will believe for eternity. It's quite sad when people lose their faith. I disagree with people who say that those who lose their faith were never born again or saved to begin with. Those who ask for Jesus to save them are saved. After all Romans 10:13 says "For all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved" and Jesus said that he will lose none of those who come to him in my favorite verses of the bible John 6:37-40. After all, the saved are a number that no man can count as John says in Revelation 7:9. There's also the parable of the prodigal son. Forgive me, I can't remember where in the Bible it is but Jesus basically said that those who lose faith are still welcomed and loved by God. But, I do believe that it grieves Jesus's heart when Christians become ex Christians. I mean, he wants people to be faithful until the end and in a perfect world Christians would stay Christians.

I mean, when Jesus came to me to give me the Holy Spirit I didn't believe in the things that many people say are necessary for salvation. Like believing that he was God in the flesh for instance. For the first 3 years I was a Christian I didn't believe that Jesus was God in the flesh or in the Trinity. It wasn't until I prayed to God and asked in prayer for him to reveal the Trinity to me if it was real that I began to believe in the Trinity. It took about a year for that prayer to be answered but I literally just woke up one day believing in it and I've believed in it ever since. But when I first got saved and for years after that I didn't believe in that stuff. I just came to Jesus and accepted him as Lord and Savior and asked him to save me. God did the rest. So, I believe that you are saved but that Jesus is saddened that you left the faith. As a follower of Jesus who loves him, it breaks my heart as well. Ideally, when people come to Jesus it should be a lifelong commitment. It's not always that case but, it should be. When I came to Jesus I wanted to make sure that I would make a lifelong commitment to God before accepting him.

As for your siblings being Christians that does make coming out to your parents harder if they believe that you have to have a continued faith in Jesus to be saved. But, I still believe you should come out and let them know. Like I said, they could maybe help you get your faith back if you said you had your faith and lost it. I'm sure they would be happy to help you especially if they believe that your salvation depends on it.

 

[akaDaScribe]

Yes, that's basically my position too. If there is a God I think it's probable that he knows my heart. I take comfort in that. I don't think God will punish me for not being able to choose to believe. And if he does, I don't see what I could do about it anyway.
Not at all. I want to know what you guys think. This process has been the loneliest thing I've ever gone through.
Yes, and it was so incredibly scary to dare to question if God was even there. But in the end I had to do it.

Do you want to know for sure one way or the other?

I can tell you the path I took. Maybe it will work for you and maybe it won’t. I’ve come to realize that not everyone arrives in the same place by the same method, but your situation sounds similar enough to mine, that it could be worth exploring.

 

[AnnaDeborah]

I can understand you being sceptical about feelings - I get goosebumps a lot when I'm singing hymns, but I've always assumed it's just that I'm either cold or the music is affecting me. I've never felt it's been particularly a sign of the Holy Spirit working.

How do you explain the situations where someone has some specific guidance? I'm not talking about the 'I'm going to chuck myself in front of a bus unless someone shows me kindness in the next 5 minutes' kind, because there are a lot of kind people out there who would spot someone that upset and talk to them anyway. But things where someone has been directed to go to a specific place at a specific time where they will meet a specific person who has a message for them and they follow the instructions and the person is there with a spot-message. Or where someone is able to tell another person something about their life that they had NO way of knowing through natural causes. There are so many things that can't be explained by a world that does not involve some kind of spiritual power.

Also, where did the world come from? I know most atheists subscribe to evolution, but where did the original 'matter' come from to start the world? Even if you believe that the world started from one atom that reproduced, the atom had to come from somewhere - or exist eternally. It's something that's always puzzled me about atheism and no atheist has ever given me an answer.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say. Sure, I can always get at better understanding of my own motivations, and this thread has been useful in that regard. And yes, I can have peace with my decisions whether or not they turn out to be wise or not (that's something I've learned from studying secular Buddhism btw). But in any case I want to find the best solution, what is best morally. I think I'll have to find some sort of compromise between the different values at stake here.

Obviously joy vs. suffering is an extremely simplified description, and I didn't mean that that's what constitutes my morality, only that "joy is better than suffering" is the closest I can get to some sort of "objective" basis for morality.

I'm not asking for an objective basis just your personal basis. If you can nail down your own hierarchy of values you will have a grasp on what you ought to do in any situation. To nail it down you really need some touchstone that validates for you why something is morally upright or morally wrong.

 

[holo]

Yes so if he exist that's the scary part . I don't agree with God myself but that does not cause me to not believe he does not exist because I base my faith on the evidence which he provided .

It's not that I disagree with God's morals that made me lose faith. I just don't see convincing evidence that Christianity is true, at least not in the way I used to believe.

 

[holo]

But, I still believe you should come out and let them know. Like I said, they could maybe help you get your faith back if you said you had your faith and lost it. I'm sure they would be happy to help you especially if they believe that your salvation depends on it.

I don't think they'd be able to help me get my faith back. I don't think they're at all prepared to answer the questions and doubts I have. They'll probably think I haven't actually lost faith, but rather that I'm revolting against God and not wanting to believe because it carries a cost. They're very much in the the-end-is-near and many-will-lose-their-faith camp. I'm sure they'll see this whole thing as a matter of the devil trying to trick me, rather than a matter of me simply not being convinced anymore.

 

[holo]

Do you want to know for sure one way or the other?

I can tell you the path I took. Maybe it will work for you and maybe it won’t. I’ve come to realize that not everyone arrives in the same place by the same method, but your situation sounds similar enough to mine, that it could be worth exploring.

Yes, I would very much like to know the truth.

Well, maybe I don't. If the truth is that God hates us all and is going to torture us forever because we don't keep the sabbath or something crazy like that, I'm not sure I would want to know. But I assume that what you believe is true is good news
So tell me about your path!

 

[holo]

I can understand you being sceptical about feelings - I get goosebumps a lot when I'm singing hymns, but I've always assumed it's just that I'm either cold or the music is affecting me. I've never felt it's been particularly a sign of the Holy Spirit working.

Since I already expected to see God anywhere and everywhere, I did take everything from dreams to goosebumps and anxiety attacks to be signs of something spiritual. I became more sceptical of all those things many years before I began losing faith, but emotions were definitely a huge part of my experience of God. Like when I read Romans and it dawned on me that God loved me no matter what, and I literally overnight was freed from depression and anxiety and compulsive drug use. It was very emotional. My "proof" of God being real was that I could sense or feel him somehow.

How do you explain the situations where someone has some specific guidance?

I can't. I believe it's mostly coincidence or some sort of cold reading (perhaps unconscious). I hear about these things all the time. I know from experience that we tend to exaggerate and see meaning in coincidences. I've also noticed that the farther away in time and space, the greater the miracle. Meaning, God doesn't wake people from the dead today, but he definitely did at some point. He doesn't heal a person with Down syndrome or AIDS here, but in Africa he can. A christian told me about it so it's probably trustworthy, right...?

But it's not like I can hear some story and be the judge of whether or not it was God. I just don't know. I see muslims witnessing about what Allah has done for them, too. I think I would have to experience it for myself.

Also, where did the world come from? I know most atheists subscribe to evolution, but where did the original 'matter' come from to start the world? Even if you believe that the world started from one atom that reproduced, the atom had to come from somewhere - or exist eternally. It's something that's always puzzled me about atheism and no atheist has ever given me an answer.

I simply don't know. I'm not sure we will ever figure it out, and even if we do, I guess we can't really comprehend it, much like we can't really comprehend metaphysics or space and time dilation though it appears to be real according to science.

When I was a believer, I assumed that the we could, and perhaps should, be able to understand the universe. But now as an unbeliever, it would be less surprising to me if we can't. If we came from evolution with no higher purpose, we should be designed to understand things that are close to us and that have consequences for our ability to spread our genes in a stone age world. The ability to understand how the universe works wouldn't have high priority.

 

[holo]

I'm not asking for an objective basis just your personal basis. If you can nail down your own hierarchy of values you will have a grasp on what you ought to do in any situation. To nail it down you really need some touchstone that validates for you why something is morally upright or morally wrong.

I'm not so sure I can get as firm a grasp on my own moral hierarchy as to be able to know what to do in each and every situation. Even the best and most detailed of laws must be tried in a court from time to time, and there's no lack of moral conundrums. Not to say I can't get a better grasp on it that I have today. In this situation I think it's pretty clear to me: not upsetting my parents is more important than me getting to be honest. But maybe there are ways of doing it, or things I haven't considered (hence this thread).