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In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Ephesians 1:7
There is no unpardonable sin . Only sin.
I do not know about what specifics you speak of, but I am sure it may have happened. Personally, I do not think "being slain in the Spirit", "holy laughter", "screaming in pain on the ground in convulsions", "knocking down crowds with a wave of the hand" are of the fruits of the Spirit. The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness, humbleness, and self control.
God operates within the confines of what He shows us in Scripture.
I do not see anything of these things in the Bible.
If you feel you can show me these things in God's Word, then that would be great.
My faith comes from the Word of God.
That is my foundation of who God is and how He operates.
If God does something that appears to be contradictory to Scripture, then I have a right to question it. We know God performed miracles in the OT, so it was not unorthodox for the Jews to think that such a thing was possible for God.
God operates within the confines of what He shows us in Scripture.
I do not see anything of these things in the Bible.
If you feel you can show me these things in God's Word, then that would be great.
I also see it as the nature of God. He won't be limited and told what He can and cannot do. Now I'm leaving this discussion, lest staying will make you sin further.
This statement demonstrates that you are unable to understand the distinctive character of sin that is unforgivable. It's not the act that makes it unforgivable, it's the disposition of the person acting. What you say is true about all sin except sin that is so obstinately clung to it is impossible to repent. You misunderstand because you think it's about what a person does. It's not. It's about the doer. If it's impossible to be sorry for sin it's impossible to repent for sin. It's unforgivable sin.
I also see it as the nature of God. He won't be limited and told what He can and cannot do. Now I'm leaving this discussion, lest staying will make you sin further.
I ask you to show me Scripture that shows a display of one being slain in the Spirit, of one partaking in holy laughter, or in one screaming on the ground in pain as a part of the Spirit. If you cannot do that, then I have a right to say it is not of God's Word. For we do not see it in the Bible.
Isaiah 8:20 says,
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
This statement demonstrates that you are unable to understand the distinctive character of sin that is unforgivable. It's not the act that makes it unforgivable, it's the disposition of the person acting. What you say is true about all sin except sin that is so obstinately clung to it is impossible to repent. You misunderstand because you think it's about what a person does. It's not. It's about the doer. If it's impossible to be sorry for sin it's impossible to repent for sin. It's unforgivable sin.
I ask you to show me Scripture that shows a display of one being slain in the Spirit, of one partaking in holy laughter, or in one screaming on the ground in pain as a part of the Spirit. If you cannot do that, then I have a right to say it is not of God's Word. For we do not see it in the Bible.
Isaiah 8:20 says,
"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."
First, nowhere does John 17:4, John 19:30, an Hebrews 4:3 (or anywhere in Scripture) actually use the words, "We are saved as a result of the finished work of Jesus Christ at Calvary" (As if to say that we are saved by Christ's work alone on the cross and nothing else). That is something you are saying and it can be found nowhere in Scripture (even by the use of other words). Second, in John 17:3, Jesus was showing that He was faithful to the Father. Jesus says in John 4, that his "meat" is to do the will of the Father. Yet, in John 6, we are told to eat of Christ's flesh ("meat") or we do not have any life within us. This is in reference to the fact that we have to obey the commands of Jesus Christ as laid out within Scripture in order to have continued eternal life. Jesus even said in Matthew 19:17 that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments. As for John 19:30: Well, Christ's words "It is finished" in John 19:30 is in reference to paying the price for the sins of the entire world (See 1 John 2:2). But that does not mean everyone in the world is saved. As for Hebrews 4:3: The Bible teaches that Christ does the good work through us in Sanctification along with the other persons of the Godhead or Trinity. Here are verses showing that it is Christ who does the good work in us.
Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27.
Now, yes, it is true that Jesus died for the sins of the entire world and He rose three days later from the grave. No true believer can ever forget about this loving work or act that Jesus did for us. But it is also equally true that Jesus does the good work (through us) in the Sanctification process of our lives, too. So when Hebrews 4:3 says that Christ's works were finished from the foundation of the world, I believe it is not only talking about His saving work of His death and resurrection to redeem us, but it is also talking about the work He does in us, too. For Ephesians 2:10 says, "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."
You said:
If it depends on us in the least little bit, we become Co-Redeemers with Him.
Do you not believe Romans 10:13 that says, "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."?
Does calling upon the Lord make us co-redeemers because we had to take action to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved? Surely not. Does a man who is lost at sea (and about to drown) who grabs onto the hand of his rescuer boast in how he saved himself? Of course not.
The same is true if we continue to be faithful to the Lord. For it is the Lord doing the good work in us. For there is none good but God.
You said:
It is believing, not performing, that saves us: (Eph. 2:8-9).
That is simply not true. Ephesians 2:8-9 is clearly talking about "Initial Salvation." It may not use those exact words to say this, but we understand that this is what it is talking about based upon the surrounding context. Ephesians 2:1 says that Christ quickened us (past tense). Jesus gave us life the moment we asked Him for forgiveness. He made us become spiritually regenerated or born again. We no longer desire the old ways of this world and it's sins but we desire to walk in the new ways of Christ because He transformed us by our genuinely seeking His forgiveness. Paul says in Ephesians 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. Paul says, "may" here and it is not a guarantee. In other words, Paul is giving the Ephesians readers the basics of salvation. He is not talking about "Sanctification" here.
Besides, while the Bible does say we are saved by God's grace without works (as a part of coming to Him and or how we are ultimately saved), the Bible also teaches that Sanctification (works and holiness) is also required as a part of the salvation process, too. Just click on following the spoiler button to check out the verses.
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).
“Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” (Philippians 2:12).
“...And having become servants of God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end, everlasting life.” (Romans 6:22) (KJ21).
“In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
You said:
If our faith fails, His sustains us: (2 Tim. 2:13).
That is not what 2 Timothy 2:13 says.
Read the context.
"...if we deny him, he also will deny us:" (2 Timothy 2:12).
So what exactly is God being faithful to then?
God is faithful to His Word.
His Word includes certain conditions for man.
For example Romans 8 says,
6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
You said:
If the dos and don’ts of the Mosaic Law didn’t save anyone then, why would any set of dos and don’ts save anyone, or keep anyone saved now (Rom. 3:19-20; 10:3-4)?
It is true that the Law alone does not save anyone. Without God, nobody would be saved. Only with God can a person obey God's laws. This was true back in the OT as it is today under the NT. All men of God (through out time) are saved by the Lord and His mercy and what Christ did for us and they are saved by being obedient to God. If such were not the case, then God would have to agree with sin on some level to save us. Can God agree with a plan of salvation that makes for an allowance for sin? What fellowship does light have with darkness?
Anyways, Paul warns us about going back to the Old Law (like circumcision) to be saved. See Romans 3:1, and Galatians 5:2. Paul was not against keeping the commandments of Jesus Christ (See 1 Timothy 6:3-4).
The Mosaic Law (as a whole package deal) no longer exists. It became obsolete with Christ's death. It is obvious the Old Law does not still exist because various commands in the New Testament have changed what the Old Law says. For example: Paul says that if you seek to be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. Jesus says to us that we are no longer to render an eye for an eye but we are to turn the other cheek. When Jesus died upon the cross, the temple veil was torn letting us know that the laws on the priesthood and the animal sacrifices were no longer valid anymore. Jesus is our Heavenly High Priest and He is our Passover Lamb. Paul says we are no longer to judge according to Sabbaths and holy days. Peter was told to eat unclean animals (Which is a violation of OT Law).
However, that does not mean God does not have other laws (or commands) for us today. In fact, one must understand that God has "Eternal Moral Laws" for man since after his "fall" in the Garden. After the "fall": It was always wrong to murder, commit adultery, sleep with one's parents, get drunk, hate your brother, covet, lie, commit idolatry, etc. These Moral laws existed before the written Law and they still exist today. The written Law of Moses merely repeated them or emphasized them. But in addition to these moral laws, there were laws (within the Old Law) that were exclusive to the nation of Israel. These are ceremonial laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, the dietary laws, animal sacrifices involving a priesthood) and civil laws (like on how to manage farming etc.) and judicial laws (like regulating legal matters). There were a total of 613 Commands in the Old Testament Law of Moses. Some of these Laws are God's Eternal Moral Laws; Others are exclusively for Israel and do not apply to us. Believers today are under the New Testament (i.e. the New Covenant) with new laws (Which would include God's Eternal Moral Laws). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed (along with the change of the priesthood).
Jesus did not come to abrogate God's Eternal Moral Laws (like do not murder, do not hate, do not commit adultery, do not steal, etc.). Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us (like the Saturday Sabbath, the death penalty for disobeying God's laws, circumcision, the dietary laws, etc.) (See Colossians 2:14-17). Jesus says, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17). So Jesus did not come to destroy all Law and it's consequences but He came to fulfill them into their true intended purpose with the commands given to us within the New Testament. These commands are based on love. Love God and love your neighbor.
You said:
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved (Rom. 10:13). If salvation can be lost, this verse is not true.
This is called Laser Beam Theology. Laser Beam Theology is focusing a laser beam on one verse or passage as if it is the only source of truth in the Bible without looking at the whole of Scripture.
While it is true that we are saved by calling upon the name of the Lord, it is also equally true that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him, too (See Hebrews 5:9).
How would you be sinning by showing me the truth of Scripture?
If the Bible talks about these things, it is not going to lead me into sin because the Bible is God's holy Word that seeks to draw me closer to God and not farther away from Him.
You’ve just poured lies all over the truth.
You’ve acused and insulted me through all of this bologna you believe in to say Christ didn’t secure salvation. Microlies is heresy .
This isn’t secular it’s biblical.
NIV or any other form of the Bible outside of the KJV is also leaves room for unexactitudes . And some people are used to winning through fruition that’s not gonna happen here a reply will always be coming to you.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:12
How would you be sinning by showing me the truth of Scripture?
If the Bible talks about these things, it is not going to lead me into sin because the Bible is God's holy Word that seeks to draw me closer to God and not farther away from Him.
You’ve just poured lies all over the truth.
You’ve acused and insulted me through all of this bologna you believe in to say Christ didn’t secure salvation. Microlies is heresy .
This isn’t secular it’s biblical.
NIV or any other form of the Bible outside of the KJV is also leaves room for unexactitudes . And some people are used to winning through fruition that’s not gonna happen here a reply will always be coming to you.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
1 Timothy 6:12
I don’t wish anyone to sin. My intention is to discover the truth of your belief. I don’t think it exists so that is why you are not sharing it. Men generally fell face forward before God.
I don’t wish anyone to sin. My intention is to discover the truth for your belief. I don’t think it exists so that is why you are not sharing it. Men generally fell face forward before God.
