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Featured Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    If you go to The Bible Broadcasting Network and take there courses on Basic bible doctrine. You’ll understand the truth .
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    God's Word is not taught in the wisdom of men or by some course or network. God's Word is taught by the Spirit.

    "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." (1 John 2:27).
     
  3. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    So show me all the examples in scripture of people who have committed this "specific" sin?

    Yes, whosoever and the Pharisees are the only example spelled out in Scripture of committing what is "specifically" referred to as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." Will not be forgiven in this world or the world to come does not mean in the world to come people will be running around committing blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, but they will not be forgiven either in this world or the world to come.

    So ANYONE who purposely attributes the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil, in the presence of Jesus will not be forgiven today? Interesting. Has Jesus risen or not?

    So during the Millennium, who will be committing this sin?

    How could this sin be duplicated today since Jesus Christ is not still walking around on earth, but has risen? He is seated at the right hand of the Father. No one can personally witness Jesus performing a miracle today and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Holy Spirit.

    Actually, none of those verses refutes OSAS, but this is what happens when DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture get mixed up with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture and Justification gets confused with ongoing Sanctification. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know how much you love that doctrine. Fear and bondage to IN-security is no way to live the Christian life.

    If WHOSOEVER commits that same exact sin that is specifically referred to as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit," then yes, but in this case, we only have the Pharisees committing this specific sin mentioned in Scripture. Matthew 12:32 says that sin will not be forgiven in the world to come, not that it will necessarily be committed in the world to come. In order for this specific sin to be committed during the Millennium, we would have the same scenario happen all over again the same way it happened with the Pharisees, regardless of who committed it.
     
  4. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    BBN teaches the word of God .
    Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
    1 John 4:1
     
  5. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    The Pharisees in Matthew 12 were not even believers, so this passage of Scripture cannot be used to teach that genuine born again Christians commit this "specific" sin of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" and lose their salvation.
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Scripture is not written in such a neat way that we prefer. For example: Show me an example of bestiality being wrong in the Bible (besides the commandment condemning it). Show me where it is condemned in the New Testament. The Old Testament (in several places) condemns bestiality (by a commandment). However, we know that bestiality is wrong even without an example given and even without a New Testament command. It is one of God's eternal moral laws given to man after the Fall. This would naturally fall under the category of sexual immorality within the New Testament. For common basic morality just tells us that this sin is evil and wrong.

    But in your view: What if a believer does this sin in the New Testament? Do you believe they are saved? I personally do not think they are, unless of course they repent of such a sin and forsake in doing such an evil thing.

    But the word "whosoever" does not mean a specific group of people. The word "whosever" refers to anyone and not a select few. In other words, it's like you are trying to make the word "cat" mean "dog." Such is utter non sense. But you are free to change the facts of our English language if you wish. Just know, that such a method will not really work out too well for you if you are desiring to truly know what the Bible says plainly.

    Only believers will exist during the Millennium. So only a believer will be able to commit the unforgivable sin in the Millennium.

    As for your statement: "the world to come" does not mean "the world to come" (in reference to committing this sin) is just a denial of even more words within Matthew 12:32.

    There is no bubble to break on my end, my friend. You are the one who is not explaining anything of what these words mean at face value.

    As for fear: Paul says work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Yet, no doubt you will see the word "fear" as not meaning "fear." Yet, even more Scripture does not mean what it says according to your beliefs. I mean, if it is not talking about fear then why all the trembling? It makes no sense. Then again, this is nothing new in the Eternal Security belief.

    So Jesus is talking about a what if scenario in regards to the "the world to come"? Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense (if that is what you believe). This is why Eternal Security is unbiblical. Nothing of what you are pushing here can be found in Scripture. What you are saying is a direct violation of basic interpretation of how folks normally read something within the English language. So far, I get the impression that your belief is saying:

    1. 'Whosoever" does not mean "whosoever."
    2. "World to come" does not mean "world to come."
    3. "Fear" does not mean "fear."
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
  7. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    Of course beastiality is evil and wrong and why would a genuine believer commit that sin? "Saved believer practicing beastiality" or sin in general is an oxymoron (1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Galatians 5:19-21; 1 John 3:9-10). That is a description of the unrighteous/unbelievers.

    I already agreed that the word "whosoever" means whosoever (anyone) who commits that sin, yet as I pointed out, the Pharisees are the only one's spelled out in Scripture of committing what is "specifically" referred to as "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit." If anyone else other than the Pharisees would have done the same thing then what Jesus said about not being forgiven applies to them as well.

    The Millennium is about peace, not the unforgivable sin and believers do not commit the unforgivable sin. The Pharisees who committed the unforgivable sin were not believers. I don't believe that I have ever met anyone who is as obsessed with the NOSAS doctrine as you. :rolleyes:

    I said the unforgivable sin will not be forgiven either in this world or the world to come. Why would the unforgivable sin be committed by believers in the world to come?

    I have explained but it's like you don't even hear a word I say because you are blinded by your NOSAS obsession.

    Here we go with the straw man arguments, which is nothing new with the Eternal IN-security belief. First off, notice that Paul said "work out" your salvation and not work for your salvation with fear and trembling. This is in regards to ongoing Sanctification and not salvation by works. There are 3 tenses to salvation. 1. We have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) 2. We are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) 3. We will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

    In regards to fear ad trembling, we are to fear God as fear of offending God and a righteous awe and respect for Him (Proverbs 1:7; Psalm 34:9; Isaiah 66:2). Not fear God as if He is a tyrant who can't wait to punish us every time we mess up and send us to hell! The latter is an unhealthy fear and was the kind of fear of God that I experienced, prior to my conversion, while still attending the Roman Catholic church several years ago.

    Says you. Jesus is talking about no forgiveness for the unforgivable sin in regards to "the world to come." Makes perfect sense, but go ahead and believe what you want to believe. You always do anyway. You also seem to really enjoy arguing.

    More straw man arguments. :rolleyes: There is just no getting through to you at all. The saints/believers are preserved forever (Psalm 37:28; Jude 1:1) will not be lost or snatched out of the Lord's hand (John 6:37-39; 10:27-29) are justified and will be glorified (Romans 8:30) are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise (guaranteeing what is to come) unto the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30) are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (1 Peter 1:5) etc..

    You will just have to remain on that roller coaster ride of fear and bondage to IN-security without me. I got off that ride upon my conversion after leaving the Roman Catholic church several years ago.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You missed my point. You were saying before that because we have no other person committing the unforgiveable sin in Scripture, there is no proof that it can be committed today. But we do not need that proof anymore than the command on bestiality. The command on the condemnation of bestiality is just as clear as the command on the unforgiveable sin.

    I would encourage you to speak with a really good grammar or English teacher. I am not sure you really get it. You cannot say, "Anyone" and then make that word "anyone" refer to a specific group of people only. It is a disconnect in proper grammar and basic logic of the use of words.

    I am sorry. I did not see your explanation on "the world to come."
    It is possible I could have missed it.
    Why would you not want to repeat such a truth?
    Do you not realize that it is not only me who will read this thread?
    Why not help somebody else?

    In regards to salvation by works: You said before that no believer is saved if they are practicing bestiality. To not be involved in bestiality is doing what is good and right. One is producing good fruit by not involving themselves in this sin. Obedience to God's commands is a work. You said men of God are not saved if they obey this command essentially. So in one way, you are saying that obedience is tied to one's salvation. I agree. Salvation involves obedience (works). Seeing you no doubt think that a believer cannot walk perfectly (and they will always sin), does a person become unsaved if they were to fall into this sin even once? My guess is that would be a no. So what sins can a believer do on occasion just once and it is okay with God?

    In addition, our future is not written. We have to endure. Jesus says, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matthew 24:13). That doesn't sound like having a belief alone to me or Once Saved Always Saved or Easy Believism. God changes us but we also still have free will. If this was not the case, then why live out this life? Life would be meaningless if nothing we did truly mattered. That is what I get when I hear OSAS. Once Saved Always Saved. You are saved no matter what. Even if you sin. Yet, you also say that if a believer practices sin they are not a true believer? What if they lived a life of holiness before?

    Why all the trembling if Paul was not talking about fear? Do people tremble when it comes time to respecting another? No. That is silly. The Bible makes it very clear in the use of the word "fear" by words like these but you choose to make say something else.

    As for the RCC: That is another topic altogether that I choose not to discuss here at this site (because I have gotten points before when talking against the RCC). In other words, I have to pick and choose my battles.

    Yet, I have seen no rational explanation from you on the meaning of the words "world to come."
    Care to try to explain it for those who may come across this thread later?

    Oh boy. Really? Come on now. When you read John 10 about not being snatched out of his hand, you also have to read verse 27 that says that the type of believer or sheep that cannot be snatched out of his hand is the type of sheep that FOLLOWS Jesus. Read it again and then get back to me.

    Also, seals were broken in the BIble so a seal is not a superpowered padlock or an unbreakable bank vault.
    Scripture says,
    "Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil" (Proverbs 3:7).
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
  9. One More Fellow Believer

    One More Fellow Believer New Member

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    Oh, I'm so sorry, I hadn't seen this post. I've been away for a while, and then I thought that this thread had died down.

    Sure, we can talk, feel free to contact me. I actually was going to PM you now, I just can't find the option.

    Hope you're better.
     
  10. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Hey,

    I haven't been online in a while either. I forget what I wanted to pm you about but I'll send you a PM anyway about how I've been doing and how my appointment with my psychiatrist went.
     
  11. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Hiya Dan! Anyone who doesn't have a place in their heart for a mailman doesn't know a mailman.

    The nature of the sin against the Holy Spirit is that it is committed eternally. No more God can do to change their mind. You, in your own thinking acknowledge that eternal state in the heart. You added a word that qualifies the 'Christian' as being an eternal reality. You know that in the end a person must be a 'genuine born' Christian to be a Christian. So to distinguish that eternal state of being Christian from a Christian who would commit an eternal sin, you believe the latter would not be 'genuine born again'. You have to do that because it's something really only God knows.

    Same with the sin against the Holy Spirit. Jesus probably could see which Pharisees were in a changeless state of rejecting Him. Attributing the miracles, which are works that prove God's hand, to the evil one, is evidence that the sin has become impossible to stop committing. What more could God do to change that mind?

    So, it isn't the particular act of rejection as much as the state of the heart doing the rejecting. If the sin of rejection is in the face of undeniable proof and that proof is attributed to Evil then that indicates the possibility that the rejection is permanent. That just doesn't happen very often so as to expose who is in a state of eternal rejection of God. Even if it did happen, it would still only be evidence. There are people committing this sin today. It's just that only God can see who is committing it, just like only God can see who is genuine or not a genuine Christian.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  12. 1am3laine

    1am3laine Active Member

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    Yes a christian can lose their salvation by blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
    (matthew 12:31-32, mark 3:28-30, luke 12:8-10)

    Many people hear blasphemous thoughts against the Holy Spirit via the mind and they call it OCD Scrupulosity. It can be cured by MASSIVE amounts of prayer, fasting, and getting hands laid on you by Holy Spirit filled people.

    This link below can help.
    The Secrets of The Gospel: How to overcome fear of Matt 12:31-32! <-- link here

    Below are a list of videos of what true blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is.



     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Ok, I can't find the post, but the poster who is having a problem with thinking that the Holy Ghost (Spirit) could the Satan, the Devil...

    Any real truth seeker is going to be confronted by thoughts of Jesus maybe being Satan, or the Holy Ghost, or even YHWH or the Father God, being Satan, that is because Satan is allowed to "suggest" these thoughts to truth seekers, and he desperately wants one of those positions. I've confronted them/him, on these and dealt with them...

    One way I denyied and shot down these, is by saying back to the one making the suggestion, that Jesus is not a liar, and YHWH is not, and never has been a liar, and the Holy Spirit, is called, the Holy Spirit of "truth" and scripture says, is not a liar (and I said to him, "It is written") Anyway, it is written, Satan, and is true, that you are are a liar and manslayer, from the beginning, (that is: You were created that way) (he had a few things to try and say about this point as well) and the "truth" is not, never has been, and never will be "in you" or ever a part of you or ever will be in your nature... your very nature is always going to be against truth, and you try to present a false truth to many...

    And, I used another scripture also, but can't recall it right now, as I forget what else he tried to say or suggest to me, and how I shot it/that/those down as well (with help of course), but, he is liar and is incapable of change, and he is, nor can, nor ever will be, even remotely associated with real truth...

    So, he is not any member of the triune God of truth...

    Satan is a liar, and always will be, for he was created that way and is incapable of change, and God is not, nor ever will be (a Liar like him)...
    God Bless!
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    He (Satan) is getting desperate now, and he knows if he can elevate himself in the minds of the people to the level of an uncreated being, then, he's toast...

    God Bless!
     
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