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Featured Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. One More Fellow Believer

    One More Fellow Believer New Member

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    Hey. I actually browse through these foruns quite frequently, but just never felt like posting before.

    Glad that you have a significant other that can share this journey with you! My wife was so supportive that I can't imagine how it would have been without her by my side (we were actually just engaged at the time, but she really stood by me).

    Great that you are seeing a doctor. About your question... I don't know. I did share this info with my doctor (non-Christian), and he was very helpful. He could understood that I was in pain about something I hadn't control, and was willing to try and understood my side and talk at lenght about it. He also explained how I (in other issues) I was expecting much more from me than the others, and how I blamed myself by things that me (and the world) would readily forvige in someone else. This helped me feel better.

    However, I do have a friend whose doctor... wasn't so helpful, let's say. So I really don't what to say... maybe you talk with her and it will be great, maybe you do and it won't go so sell. It's your call, really. Personally, I would give it a go with a grain of salt, depending on how much trust I had in her as a professional...

    It took me some time to get better, and it's a constant journey. But, for what I understand, with treatment the vast majority of people can get fully cured after a lenghy period of treatment and self-growth, and the very small minority get much better but now fully healed. Win-win, anyway.

    Really hope you get better, I can sympathise with you. Oh, and Eloy Craft's post was great (not going to comment on the others because most people here are much better more knowledgable than me, part of the reason I never posted): "The fact that you are worried about it is proof you are not committing it. Someone in an eternal state of rejecting God is not worried about committing the unforgivable sin. "

    All the best to you,
     
  2. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    Like I said I don’t like being called a liar when I say something it’s with truth.
    The same as I mentioned above . Studying the scriptures is with who? What ? When? Where ? Why? . If you do not study it this way you get continuous out of context believes.
    You’ve already mentioned all the eternal security verses above and somehow you think you can lose it . Then it would would be by works.
    Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
    Romans 9:32
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Again, please re-read post #96. I was implying that the belief or those words were a lie (i.e. an untrue statement). I did not say YOU were a liar or that you were intentionally setting out to lie. You will find no words written by me saying that you are a liar. That is the invention of your own imagination. For can a person say words that are untrue and yet they are not deliberately setting out to lie? I would say... "yes." For in some cases, a person may not know they are saying something that is not true. For example: I remember on a few occasions saying something (that did not relate to Scripture) whereby I was misinformed. We may not have intentionally mean to say something that was false, but we were speaking on what we believed was the truth (but we later learned it was not true).

    But again, by your using the words "lies" in reply to what I said, you are doing the very thing that you condemned me for. That is like the pot calling the kettle black.

    I am not new to the Word of God. I have studied it for a long time now. Also, the Word of God is taught by the Spirit. 1 John 2:27, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

    Anyways, you need to address the verses I posted that refutes Eternal Security instead of deflecting. Please go back and address the verses I have put forth to you in my older posts.
     
  4. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, I read one website that was in favor of being slain in the Spirit and they appeared at first glance to make a good argument, but after reading this portion of the article below by Professor Johan Malan from South Africa, I believe they are wrong.

    "During falling in the Spirit in meetings people always fall backward to have a positive experience with the Holy Spirit. The Bible, however, mentions four instances where people fell down backward as examples of God’s judgment and rejection because of their infidelity and sin:

    1. “Dan shall be a serpent by the way, a viper by the path, that bites the horse’s heels so that its rider shall fall backward” (Genesis 49:17).

    2. “Then it happened... that Eli fell off the seat backward by the side of the gate; and his neck was broken and he died” (1 Samuel 4:18).

    3. “But the word of the Lord was to them, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught” (Isaiah 28:13).

    4. “Then – when He said to them, I am He – they drew back and fell to the ground” (John 18:6).
    John 18:6 is commonly used by supporters of falling in the Spirit. However, the following needs to be said about this practice from a biblical point of view:

    Firstly, the people who allegedly fell in the Spirit in John 18:6 were the enemies of Christ, including Judas Iscariot.

    Secondly, the falling backward was not a condition of unconsciousness or fainting. It was rather a reaction of shock by lost people after meeting the Lord. John 18:6 can, therefore, not be used as justification for the present practice of falling in the Spirit, because it clearly suggests that those who fell down were lost sinners.

    Thirdly, in the Bible people fell forward on their knees or face. Every time when that happened (about 30 times) the results were good and profitable.

    The following Scriptures are used in defense of falling in the Spirit: Genesis 17:3; Numbers 16:4; Numbers 24:4; Leviticus 9:24; Joshua 5:14; Judges 13:20; 1 Kings 18:39; 1 Chronicles 21:16; Ezekiel 1:28; Ezekiel 2:1-2; Ezekiel 3:23; Ezekiel 43:4; Ezekiel 44:4; Daniel 8:17; Daniel 10:9; Matthew 2:11; Matthew 17:6; Matthew 28:1-4; Mark 5:33; Luke 5:8; Luke 8:47; Luke 17:16; Acts of the Apostles 9:4 or Acts of the Apostles 26:14; Acts of the Apostles 16:29; 1 Corinthians 14:25; 2 Corinthians 12:2-4; Revelation 1:17; Revelation 4:10; Revelation 5:8; Revelation 19:4.

    Although supporters of falling in the Spirit use these scriptures to justify their practice, the contrary is true. These verses explicitly refer to a falling forward on the knees or face. That was mostly a conscious act: “Then Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him” (Genesis 17:3).

    It was also a traditional way of greeting and a form of showing respect when people bowed down before their king, or slaves subjected themselves to their lords. It was also a sign of humbling and showing respect and fear to a holy God – cf. Peter who fell down at the knees of Jesus (Luke 5:8), Paul’s conversion in Acts of the Apostles 9:4, and John humbling himself on Patmos when he fell down at the feet of Jesus (Revelation 1:17).

    In ancient times it was the most natural thing to fall on your knees or face to take on a position of prayer or honoring someone. It was in no way associated with fainting or incoherent talk. In Matthew 2:11, the wise men “fell down and worshipped [the Child]”. 1 Corinthians 14:25 refers to a member of a congregation, “falling down on his face, he will worship God and report that God is truly among [us].”

    The reason for the falling down was not, as some people say, that the person was stricken down by the Spirit of God. The Bible never says that the Holy Spirit struck people down. They fell because of one the following human reactions:

    Fear (Numbers 16:4; Joshua 5:14; Judges 13:20; Daniel 8:17; Daniel 10:9; Matthew 17:6; Matthew 28:1-4; Luke 8:47; Acts of the Apostles 9:4).

    Joy and thanksgiving for blessings (Leviticus 9:24; Matthew 2:11; Mark 5:33; Luke 17:16).

    Honor, humbling and worship in the presence of God (1 Kings 18:39; 1 Chronicles 21:16; Ezekiel 1:28; Ezekiel 2:1-2; Ezekiel 3:23; Ezekiel 43:4; Ezekiel 44:4; Luke 5:8; 1 Corinthians 14:25; Revelation 1:17; Revelation 4:10, Revelation 5:8; Revelation 19:4).

    The Spirit of God rather set people on their feet than striking them down. When people have fallen down because of one of the reactions mentioned above, it is often said that the Spirit of God raises them to stand upright. Ezekiel says, “...the glory of the Lord stood there... and I fell on my face. Then the Spirit entered me and set me on my feet” (Ezekiel 3:23-24).

    Even the falling forward gets little Scriptural support or encouragement because God, Jesus or an angel often tells people to stand up (Ezekiel 2:1-2; Ezekiel 43:3; Daniel 8:17-18; Daniel 10:9-10; Matthew 17:6-7). In Matthew 17:7 Jesus said to His disciples who fell on their faces because of fear: “Arise, and do not be afraid.” The Holy Spirit is rather associated with the act of rising than with falling.

    There is indeed a spirit that makes people fall down, but that is not the Spirit of God – that is an evil spirit. There are various examples of this in the Bible. Mark says, “For [Jesus] healed many, so that as many as had afflictions pressed about Him to touch Him. And the unclean spirits, whenever they saw Him, fell down before Him and cried...” (Mark 3:10-11). In another case a boy with a mute spirit was brought to Jesus, “and wherever [the spirit] seizes him, he throws him down... Then they brought him to [Jesus]. And when he saw Him, immediately the spirit convulsed him, and he fell on the ground and he wallowed” (Mark 9:18-20). After Jesus rebuked the spirit and commanded him to leave He assisted the boy to get up: “Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him up, and he arose” (Mark 9:27). A case has also been recorded in Capernaum where Jesus delivered a man who was possessed by an unclean spirit: “Jesus rebuked him, saying, Be quiet and come out of him! And when the demon had thrown him in their midst, it came out of him and did not hurt him” (Luke 4:35).

    The supporters of falling in the Spirit also have a big problem to prove from the Bible that this experience may be linked to a baptizing (or anointing) with the Holy Spirit. Except for cases where people had problems with demons and fell down during the process of deliverance, there is no relationship in the Bible between healing or anointing with the Spirit and falling in the Spirit. The supporters of this strange experience have a double problem: firstly, to find a similar phenomenon in the Bible, and secondly, to connect this experience to baptizing with the Holy Spirit.

    Easy salvation
    The normal way in which God deals with sinners – i.e. through repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus – is brushed aside and substituted by a strange experience such as falling in the Spirit. In this way, biblical truths are ignored or wrongly applied. In this way salvation is made easier and cheaper, i.e. without repentance and counting the cost by those involved.

    Falling in the Spirit is used as a crush-pen for salvation through which people are forced or manipulated; consequently, they are not confronted with a choice whether they wish to repent or not. The experience of falling in the Spirit replaces a conscious decision that sinners must make when they are convicted of their sins. Suddenly, they find themselves in a mystical trance. After recovering their consciousness, they regard themselves as believers who were changed by the power of God.

    Because of this way of dealing with lost people, preaching the gospel of salvation has virtually become redundant – unbelievers only need to fall in the Spirit. But the problem is that such people’s lives are not built upon the foundation of Christ but upon a mystical experience. In this way, the biblical message of repentance is bypassed. That is one of the reasons why preaching on sin has become such a rare feature of modern evangelization.

    It obviously does not trouble the leaders of this movement that the basis of salvation through falling in the Spirit is unbiblical. Coppin says, “Even if there were no biblical basis for the phenomenon, it might be contended that since many are strengthened through the experience, it is worth entertaining.” The general approach is: “Be open to new ways in which God by His Spirit may be speaking to the Church.”

    The distorted view that unsaved people, who are still in bondage of sin, may have certain experiences with the Holy Spirit is completely foreign to Scripture. The biblical way of salvation is that the Holy Spirit first convicts people of their sins. Only after they have confessed and forsaken their sins and put their trust in the Lord Jesus to save their souls by virtue of His work of atonement on the cross, are they regenerated by the Holy Spirit who will then establish His presence in these persons’ hearts. After the experience of being born again they must continuously be filled with the Spirit.

    It also does not make any sense that people can have many experiences of falling in the Spirit. Some people refer to the new experiences as a recharge. It is obvious that a deeply-rooted discontentment and opportunism lies at the basis of falling in the Spirit. Sinners are looking for an easy and physically tangible way to become Christians without really changing their lifestyles. Many Christians are not content with the normal views about spiritual growth and are looking for extraordinary experiences in their spiritual lives. They want to be baptized in the Spirit in one dramatic moment and also obtain special gifts to enhance their boring lives. This approach opens the way to various forms of deception.

    In this way, the door is opened to the sensual and the spectacular, thereby enthroning the flesh. A humanistic self-image is stimulated which may have an outward appearance of the person being Christian, but in reality he/she has no inclination towards true spirituality. The new gifts and strange manifestations are used to glorify the self, and are practiced for entertainment rather than the promotion and extension of God’s kingdom on earth.

    The Holy Spirit warned us that in the last days the devil will succeed in even seducing believers to accept wrong doctrines which are propagated by deceiving spirits: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). John says, “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1)."​


    Source:
    Serious Deception Through Slaying in the Spirit
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  5. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Read the title of the website YOU chose, and tell me again you are seeking truth.
     
  6. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc Eternal life is a free gift. Amen. Supporter

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    Oh that's cool that you browse the forums a lot. Ive been a member here for like 3 years. Can I PM you about this? I think my psychiatrist should know what's going on so I think I'll tell her when I see her Tuesday. I mean If I keep saying "everything's fine" how can she help me? Maybe my meds need to be increased or maybe I just need to talk about it with someone besides God.
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Three cases (that I recall from Scripture) that seems like a weak echo or shadow of the "slain in the Spirit" type experiences is:

    1. 1 Samuel 1:13 - Hannah is accused of being drunk but she is in the Spirit.
    Her lips moved, but no audible sound came out.

    2. 1 Samuel 19:20 - Saul's messengers are overtaken by the Spirit whereby they prophesied.

    3. Acts of the Apostles 2:13 - Members of the church are accused of being drunk of new wine when they speak and hear each other in their own languages.​

    However, these incidents deal with how one speaks and not so much in their actions alone in being thrown down to the ground, or in making animal noises, or in screaming in pain, etc. Others had misrepresented strange speech as being drunk, and it does not say they stumbled about or fall to the ground as if they were in a drunken stupor. Also, with Saul's messengers, this was in regards to speaking prophecy and it was not in regards to making animal noises, screaming in pain, and or laughing uncontrollably.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I read another article prior by Charisma News that is in favor of the slain in the Spirit experience. Needless to say I do not agree with their article after reading the other one (I just showed in part here within this thread).
     
  9. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    What did you think BEFORE reading the one inspired by unbelief?
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I kept an open mind when reading the article by Charisma News. The problem is that they go outside of what Scripture is saying to defend their viewpoint. However, God and His ways are revealed to us within His Word. For adding to what Scripture says is the hallmark of every false way or religion. If it is not within His Word, it doesn't exist. Why? Because the Bible is the only revelation or word of prophecy for man today.
     
  11. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Spirit-filled follower of Christ Supporter

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    Hearing God's voice is scriptural, but many believe God only speaks to us through His word. Do you hear Him speak? What has He said to you. How did you know it was Him?
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  12. SMITTY7000

    SMITTY7000 New Member Supporter

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    The Unforgivable Sin

    LUKE 12: 8-12 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: "confess" G3670 homologeō From a compound of the base of G3674 and G3056; to assent, that is, covenant, acknowledge: - con- (pro-) fess, confession is made, give thanks, promise.

    “Confess” means to bind in a covenant. When we acknowledge, to men and women around us, that we are of Christ, a believer, that binds Christ to us even in heaven. Jesus is telling us that when we testify before men that Jesus Christ is the Lord of your life, He is binding Himself to us before the angels of God in heaven. When we talk about Christ crucified, we talk about why He was crucified, where He was crucified and who crucified Him. We need to know the key of David that identifies who the Kenites [ sons of Cain] are and what they did to our Lord [ the Scribes and Pharisees]. Jesus is telling us, if we confess Him to men, He will confess us to the angels of God in heaven. The church of Smyrna found in Rev. 2:8-11 along with the Church of Philadelphia of 3:7-13 knew the Key and who the people of this synagogue were. The other 5 Churches do not have this teaching.

    LUKE 12 :9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. This is the other side of that coin. We must never be ashamed of witnessing for Christ

    LUKE 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:[ First Part Of Verse ] This begins a teaching on the unpardonable sin. There is only one unpardonable sin, and this is probably the most complete teaching on the subject. If you deny Christ before men in this flesh body, He will deny you in heaven. Jesus is saying that even in one does deny Him, in time, through the Millennium age, there can be forgiveness. So, we need to get it straight from the beginning: The Son of man is Jesus Christ our Lord. This is talking about God in the flesh (anthropos), before men in their flesh bodies. While God was in the flesh, you could talk against Him, and upon repentance you would be forgiven

    :[ Second Part Of Verse ] : but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven. When Jesus ascended into heaven on the fiftieth day after His resurrection, God the Father sent the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was sent for a special reason, and that was to open our eyes to the truth and guide us in our path through life.

    So after our spiritual eyes have been open to the truth, and we have tasted of the truth of God`s Word with understanding, and then if we blaspheme the Holy Spirit then that is unforgivable. Not everyone can commit this unforgivable sin. Only God's elect can commit this sin. That may be a hard pill to swallow for some, but the scripture will bear this out.

    LUKE 12 :11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: :12 For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. This is an event that occurs during the Tribulation and it identifies a group that were chosen before the “Foundation Of The World” as told in Romans 8:28-39 and Ephesians 1:3-11

    This group of elect are the ones that will be delivered up to the synagogues [ Rev. 2:9 & 3:9 ] prisons, kings, councils and magistrates. They are delivered up for the express purpose of the Holy Spirit speaking through them to tell the whole world the truth and to identify the fake Jesus who is non-other than Satan posing as Christ. 2 Thess. 2:1-12 This is the only group that could commit the unforgivable sin, if they refuse to let the Holy Spirit speak through them. Matthew 24:24 points to this group and the wording here implies that it is not possible for them to commit such a sin. Remember that the 24th Chapter in Matthew is written about the events of the time of Christ return as verse :3 will show.

    As we read the following verses hopefully the truth of the elect will become clear.

    LUKE 21:12-15 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. :13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. :14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: :15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

    MARK 13: 9-11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. :10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. :11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.

    “published” _ G2784 kērussō Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

    “in that hour” – This is The Hour Of Temptation --- This is where the Gospel is proclaimed to all the world and it is The Holy Spirit speaking thru the servants of God. No Rapture for these folks. NOTE: With technology being what it is today there is no problem with everyone on the face of this Earth to be tuned in to the major event of that time.

    REV 2:8 -11 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; :9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. :10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. NOTE: The book of Revelations is written to give us details of those things that would come to pass in the last days and through the Tribulation. The Smyrna Church is one of 2 Churches that our Savior found no fault with because of what they knew and taught. The Philadelphian Church knew and taught the same thing. Rev. 3:9

    ACTS 2: This is the model for this extremely important event. Everyone will be able to understand the words spoken no matter who they are or where they are from. :16 -18 points us to the prophecy of this event in Joel.[ JOEL 2:28-31] Here in Acts 2 it elaborates a little further telling us when God pours His Holy Spirit out his servants [ elect], they will prophesy. To get these servants to prophecy before the whole world is why they will be delivered up to the synagogues of Satan and the councils, magistrates and kings all for His sake.

    This all speaks about a specific time when this shall happen. That hour will be a time when it is not important what comes out of your mind, but what the Holy Spirit is there to say through you, according to the plan of God. That is why we are not to premeditate on what or how we should say those precious words from God. This is the only time that the unpardonable sin can be committed.

    This is at that moment that God`s elect will be delivered up for a specific trial before the synagogue of Satan and his magistrates. If one denies the Holy Spirit of God the privilege of speaking through them in that hour, that rejection is called "blaspheme", and it is not forgiven at any time. Once again, I do not think it is possible for one of the group, the elect, to commit this sin.

    I cannot say that I myself am of this group, but I can say that I can see no greater honor our Father could give a flesh man than to serve Him in that capacity.
     
  13. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    Bible .org on Salvation Security
    1.4. Assurance of Eternal Security
    I will also How to be saved
    Believing the virgin birth
    Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
    Matthew 1:23
    Believing the virgin life
    The Crucifiction of Christ ( the unblemished lamb) through the blood of Christ we are saved .
    How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
    Hebrews 9:14
    Was buried in a tomb after three days and three nights he rose again in a body you can touch.
    Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
    Ephesians 1:20
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  14. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    Eternal security
    And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
    Ephesians 4:30
     
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  15. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Hello my brother. I am not going to take the time to read all 8 pages of this thread. I will however say to you that A Christian CANNOT commit the unpardonable sin.

    Romans 8:1 states...........
    "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

    Only an unbeliever can commit the unpardonable sin, and many do. If a Christian commits suicide, they still go to Heaven. As true believers, we don't run to the priest (a sinful man himself) to forgive our sins. Folks, ONLY God can forgive sin (Mark 2:7; 1st Timothy 2:5).

    The Unpardonable Sin is Rejecting Jesus Christ as Your Savior!!!!!!!

    There is only one sin which CANNOT be forgiven--rejecting Jesus Christ as your Savior.

    In other words, none of your sins can be forgiven apart from the precious blood of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 9:22). God is willing to forgive a person of ANY sin, except the sin of not coming to God the Father through the cross of Jesus Christ.

    Jesus stated in John 14:6......
    "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

    There is no salvation apart from God our Savior... "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour" (Isaiah 43:10,11).

    Also, this Scripture clearly reveals the deity of Jesus, i.e., that He is Almighty God.
     
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  16. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Allow me to help you my friend.

    Romans 1:19, 20 states
    “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and GODHEAD; so that they are without excuse.”

    Colossians 2:9
    “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the GODHEAD bodily.”

    And just in case there is any confusion there is 1st John 5:7..........
    “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE.”

    Jesus the Son is the Godhead.
     
  17. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Correct!

    Once saved always saved is Bible doctrine.

    When a lost sinner comes to know Christ as their Savior, they are brought into a relationship with God that guarantees their salvation as eternally secure. To be clear, salvation is more than saying a prayer or “making a decision” for Christ; salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner is washed, renewed, and born again by the Holy Spirit according to Jn. 3:3 and Titus 3:5.

    When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him. The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word Numerous passages of Scripture declare the fact that, as an act of God, salvation is secure:

    Romans 8:30 declares,.........
    "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified."

    This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed—he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.

    Romans 8:33-34.......
    "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us."

    Who will bring a charge against God's elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.

    THINK! Believers are born again and regenerated by the Holy Spirit when they believe . For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.

    John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life."

    If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence, if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error and that would make God a LIAR!!!!!!!!
     
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  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I believe God only speaks to us using His Word. God wants us to obey His commandments. If God is asking us to do something that is outside of His Word, chances are it is probably not of God. Can God answer our prayers? Yes, but it is only inline with what His Word says. To receive messages from God or prophecy is not biblical because the word of prophecy known as the Bible is complete. It is the only revelation we need. That which is perfect (the Bible) is now complete (1 Corinthians 13:10).
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    What is the condition of having the seal of God?

    Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

    "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).

    In fact, what is a guarantee?

    Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

    1 Samuel 16:14
    But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

    Psalms 5:11
    Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

    Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

    Romans 4:11
    And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

    This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

    Romans 2:25-27
    25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

    As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

    Acts 5:32
    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    John 14:15-16
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

    Romans 8:9-10
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

    Isaiah 63:10
    But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

    Isaiah 63:14
    As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

    In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I beg to differ. I believe Once Saved Always Saved is not a teaching taught in the Bible. On the contrary, the Bible teaches against such a belief big time in many places.

    So if salvation is a sovereign act of God, then that means that man cannot be held accountable for any sin or evil he does because God could have prevented him from sinning by forcing salvation upon him. God could have stopped man from sinning (or at least to "sin less" according certain Eternal Security proponent's odd definition on holiness). Anyways, why have a judgment of men if it was God who put man there? It makes no sense. That would be like creating a robot to kill people and then later putting that robot on trial for murder. It is illogical.

    Now, while it is true we are born again spiritually according to John 3:3 and Titus 3:5, this is not a forced regeneration against our own will. How so? Scripture says,

    "For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." (Matthew 13:15).

    Did you catch what this verse said? It says the people's heart is waxed gross and is dull of hearing and their eyes they have closed, .... LEST (UNLESS) .... at any time THEY SHOULD SEE with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart. It is a person's choice to choose God. If not, then this life would be meaningless and we are just puppets of God.

    Sorry, but Calvinism is not being taught in these verses. How so?

    Well, if you were to look at Romans 8:12-13, it says,

    12 "Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."

    Okay. Verse 12 is a condition. If Calvinism was true or God forced saved us, then why would Paul make conditional statements like he does in verses 12 and 13? It makes no sense. Paul says in verse 12 to the Roman church that we are debtors not to live after the flesh (sin). Okay. If all believers are going to just automatically obey God and do the right thing because they have a new heart, then why does Paul tell the Roman church here to not live after the flesh (sin)? If being regenerated was a choice by God, then why does Paul say (in verse 13) to the Romans church that, IF they live after the flesh (sin) they will die? Why does Paul also add that the Roman church can obey God by telling them to mortify the deeds of the body (sin) and live? Why does Paul give them a choice? If forced regeneration was true, it would make no sense for Paul to say this.

    Not true. In the Parable of the Prodigal Son, when the son returned home from living a life of sin and was willing to repent towards his father and before all of heaven, his father said that his son was "dead" and is "alive again." This parable of course was speaking in spiritual terms. The son was spiritually dead when he was living in sin (away from the father) and he became alive again spiritually when he decided to come back home and seek his father's forgiveness (and become a hired hand).

    But when you read John 3:15, you MUST also read about the "Condemnation" mentioned in John 3:19-21 to get the context. Verse 20 says that all who do evil hate the light and neither come to the light unless their deeds should be reproved (corrected). This means that believing in Jesus does not make for an allowance for doing evil because John 3:20 says those who are doing evil have not come to the light.

    Eternal Life is a person and not a thing.
    Eternal Life is Jesus Christ. For Christ alone has immortality (1 Timothy 6:16). For he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son, does not have life (1 John 5:12). In other words, we must abide in the Son in order to have life (Eternal Life). Okay so how can we have an assurance in knowing the Son (i.e. to abide in Him and have Eternal Life)? 1 John 2:3 says, "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." On the flip side: 1 John 2:4 says, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

    Eternal Security can easily be disproved by pointing out the surrounding context of a verse that supposedly proves it. For there hasn't been a verse (that supposedly proves Eternal Security) that I was not able to refute using Scripture.

    In fact, I am not sure how a person can read the Bible and ignore all the verses that refute the unbiblical teaching of Eternal Security. For when a person reads their Bible they will see a refutation of Eternal Security in the majority of the New Testament (and in some cases, depending on the book, they will see a refutation of Eternal Security on almost every page).

    Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

    • Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
    • Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
    • Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.
    • Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
    • Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
    • Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
    • Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
    • Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
    • Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
    • Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.
    • John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).
    • John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
    • John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
    • John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
    • Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
    • Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
    • Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
    • Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
    • Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.
    • Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
    • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    • 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
    • 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
    • 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
    • Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
    • Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    • Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    • Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
    • Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
    • Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
    • Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
      … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
    • Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.
    • Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
    • Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
    • 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
    • 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
    • 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.
    • 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
    • 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
    • Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
    • Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
    • Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    • Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
    • Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
    • Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
    • Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
    • Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
    • Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.
    • Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
    • Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
    • Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
    • Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
    • James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.
    • 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
    • 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
    • 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.
    • 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    • 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    • 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
    • 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
    • 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
    • Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality
    • Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
    • Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death)
    • Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
    • Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.
    • Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
    • Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
    • Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
    • Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
    • Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

    Source:
    Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018
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