Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

[Neostarwcc]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

 

[Ken Rank]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

Nobody but messiah himself has been "perfected" which means that while we might desire righteousness, we are still capable of sin. That goes for any sin.

 

[SkyWriting]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day.

The unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting the Holy Spirit
with full knowledge and intent. Any mental illness is accounted for.
God is pretty bright about such things and is not offended if you
have a bad day. Or a bad year.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Nobody but messiah himself has been "perfected" which means that while we might desire righteousness, we are still capable of sin. That goes for any sin.

That's so true! We won't be perfected until we die. Aren't when we are born again our spirits perfected? I heard that teaching in church before. So that when we die we will go up to heaven to be with Jesus perfect and holy.

 

[Ken Rank]

The unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting the Holy Spirit
with full knowledge and intent. Any mental illness is accounted for.
God is pretty bright about such things and is not offended if you
have a bad day. Or a bad year.

I am not saying you are wrong... but I am offering this for consideration.

What does it mean to reject the Holy Spirit? The unforgivable sin isn't blaspheming the Father or the Son, only the Spirit. What does it mean to blaspheme? That is the key... it means to speak in a contemptible way about, or to speak impiously or profanely about. The word itself doesn't really allow for the idea of "rejecting." With that in mind, if we go back to when messiah said it, his works were being attributed to the Adversary. So, we have the work of the Spirit being attributed to Satan. I think that is what we are dealing with... that is profaning the Spirit, speaking against or contemptibly about the Spirit. Attributing the works of God to another, any other.

That's what I think it is... but I could be wrong.

 

[Neostarwcc]

The unforgivable sin is permanently rejecting the Holy Spirit
with full knowledge and intent. Any mental illness is accounted for.
God is pretty bright about such things and is not offended if you
have a bad day. Or a bad year.

I've heard that teaching before. I've also heard that the only unforgivable sin is to die in unbelief. But what I don't understand is why would Jesus when he was here on earth say one second all sins and blasphemy will be forgiven except for blasphemy against the holy spirit. And then say several other times during his ministry that there's no way a believer will ever be lost? Well what if a believer committed the unforgivable sin? Maybe the unforgivable sin really is dying in rejection of Christ. That would make his statements correct. Because obviously if you believe in Jesus you aren't going to die in unbelief so there's no way you could ever be lost.

 

[Dave-W]

I suggest you read this post:

Did I do the unforgivable sin?

"To blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you first must have a true miracle from God. And then you have to knowingly lie that it was done by the devil's power instead of by the Holy Spirit."​

 

[SkyWriting]

I've heard that teaching before. I've also heard that the only unforgivable sin is to die in unbelief. But what I don't understand is why would Jesus when he was here on earth say one second all sins and blasphemy will be forgiven except for blasphemy against the holy spirit. And then say several other times during his ministry that there's no way a believer will ever be lost? Well what if a believer committed the unforgivable sin? Maybe the unforgivable sin really is dying in rejection of Christ. That would make his statements correct. Because obviously if you believe in Jesus you aren't going to die in unbelief so there's no way you could ever be lost.

Becasue rejecting the Holy Spirit builds a barricade, you no longer
can accept the free gift of forgiveness. The gift is there. But you toss it
in the trash. A believer does not toss it in the trash. A person destined
for hell rejects the free gift.

 

[Neostarwcc]

I suggest you read this post:

Did I do the unforgivable sin?

"To blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you first must have a true miracle from God. And then you have to knowingly lie that it was done by the devil's power instead of by the Holy Spirit."​

I've read it. What you said makes sense. Jesus is not on earth doing miracles anymore. That's exactly what the people who Jesus said commuted it did it. They saw a miracle of God and... yeah. Anyway yeah no way I could have committed it.

 

[Dave-W]

Anyway yeah no way I could have committed it.

Amen brother!

 

[discipler7]

Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore.

That's correct.
...Have you accused the Lord/God Jesus Christ of having an unclean or demonic spirit.?
.
MARK.3: = 22 And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” and, “By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.” ...

The Unpardonable Sin
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said."He has an unclean spirit."

 

[Halbhh]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

I haven't read the Gospel of Mark often, perhaps only 2-3 times until now, and many years since. I'm far more familiar with the other 3 gospels. But we have started Mark in our Sunday morning bible study group, and have gone through chapter 3.

But, as we read through the section in Mark on this, suddenly I could see the context as it is shown in Mark, and I had not realized. It's in Mark chapter 3.

In order to understand it though, you need to start reading from the first verse, so that you have the context! Therefore, that passage is effectively most of the entire chapter.

When you do, you'll notice the Pharisees there had directly witnessed, first hand, right in front of them, this miracle of healing by God's power. Unlike some other situations where they might have only heard 2nd hand reports, this was an instance of first-hand witnessing.

And then soon scribes from Jerusalem were asserting this was from Beelzebul, which suggests either the Pharasees lied to the scribes on some level, or some such profound wrong as the scribes making a false accusation. Because Christ was there in person, it was in effect directly misrepresenting first hand.

 

[A_Thinker]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

No ... I don't believe that a believer can commit the unforgivable sin ...

 

[Matisyahu8898]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day.

I'm not very familiar with this. I remember my old youth pastor mentioning it to some extent, but his point was that it was dying in unbelief. In your words, what is the unforgivable sin?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Nobody but messiah himself has been "perfected" which means that while we might desire righteousness, we are still capable of sin. That goes for any sin.

Jesus said to "Be perfect." I don't think he would have said that if it wasn't possible. I also see that as present tense. In other words, today, be perfect. Just be perfect today. Go to bed with a clear conscience. Then tomorrow do the same. Paul said, "I die daily." Meaning dying to 'self' and sin.

 

[Ken Rank]

Jesus said to "Be perfect." I don't think he would have said that if it wasn't possible. I also see that as present tense. In other words, today, be perfect. Just be perfect today. Go to bed with a clear conscience. Then tomorrow do the same. Paul said, "I die daily." Meaning dying to 'self' and sin.

When I said "perfected" I meant the point where we are "changed" or "made incorruptible." Our bodies become like his was after his resurrection... perfected. There is a difference in definition between perfected in that sense and "be perfect" as in our behavior. When Yeshua said "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect," he meant... "striving to be complete." He isn't saying we are not capable of sin... if he were then Peter proved him wrong not too much long after he stated that, right? We are to strive for perfection, seek and walk in as best we can the righteousness of God in love and mercy and faith. But that doesn't mean we are incapable of sin... that condition is addressed when we are 'changed' at his coming.

Blessings sis.
Ken

 

[mkgal1]

I have a totally different view about what "believer" means than mainstream evangelical protestant Christianity. I don't think we "believe" all of God's Truth in one instant (like crossing a line in one step). I believe it's a process (and a good example of that is Peter's process with Jesus....and how, after spending all that time with Him, Peter still denied Him at one point). There are many different things and many different circumstances where we can either *believe God* or fall back into old instincts.

I believe we all will--eventually--be recognizing and acknowledging our broken ways, and changing our ways to be more like His.

"God cannot make a rock so heavy that God cannot move it; there cannot be a sin beyond God’s power of forgiveness."~Ask A Franciscan: Sins against the Holy Spirit

 

[Ken Rank]

I have a totally different view about what "believer" means than mainstream evangelical protestant Christianity. I don't think we "believe" all of God's Truth in one instant (like crossing a line in one step). I believe it's a process (and a good example of that is Peter's process with Jesus....and how, after spending all that time with Him, Peter still denied Him at one point). There are many different things and many different circumstances where we can either *believe God* or fall back into old instincts.

I believe we all will--eventually--be recognizing and acknowledging our broken ways, and changing our ways to be more like His.

"God cannot make a rock so heavy that God cannot move it; there cannot be a sin beyond God’s power of forgiveness."~Ask A Franciscan: Sins against the Holy Spirit

Very well said... it is a process and a process well defined in Scripture. We come in as babes in need of milk, who grow and eventually consume meat. Milk at that point isn't enough, and meat when a babe causes choking.... this is a process that lasts a lifetime!

 

[mkgal1]

Jesus said to "Be perfect." I don't think he would have said that if it wasn't possible. I also see that as present tense. In other words, today, be perfect. Just be perfect today. Go to bed with a clear conscience. Then tomorrow do the same. Paul said, "I die daily." Meaning dying to 'self' and sin.

This article--IMO--does a great job describing that passage and what it means:

------>“The oft-retranslated passage above is an almost perfect indicator today of the two minds that have tried to understand the Bible. The first reads it in terms of Platonic idealism and ego-based moralism. It uses a mathematical or diving concept (‘perfection’) and mandates it for the human person. This leads readers to impossible head-based abstractions that only results in denial, splitting and pretending. It appeals to the binary (‘yes/no’) system of the ordinary mind, wherein we all lose, since none of us is perfect and never will be.

The second translation still sets the ideal very high, but now the goal has become divine union instead of personal perfection. This translation emerges from the non-dualistic mind that has already experienced divine union at some level. As Ken Wilber so brilliantly teaches, ‘It is not what a person says, but the level from which they say it that determines the truth of a spiritual statement.’ A spiritually mature person could use the word perfection and know they are talking about God’s perfection abiding in us. An immature person will think of it as a moral achievement that they can attain by trying harder.

The higher level is well-illustrated in that transitional statement from Paul, ‘I no longer seek any perfection from my own efforts…but only the perfection that comes from faith and is from God…. We who are called perfect must all think in this way’ (Philippians 3:9, 15). Paul rightly redefines perfection as union rather than achievement.”~Richard Rohr | Cosmic Egg

....and from this quote in G. Campbell Morgan's book, "perfect" is referring to being whole:

Exposition of The Whole Bible

 

[mkgal1]

this is a process that lasts a lifetime!

Maybe even eternity.