Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

[Neogaia777]

Blaspheme would be to call what you know is holy, unholy... And, rejecting it knowing it is holy...

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[salt-n-light]

Nobody but messiah himself has been "perfected" which means that while we might desire righteousness, we are still capable of sin. That goes for any sin.

Yup, death is our final enemy (1 Corinthians 15:26)

 

[Rose Highley]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

If it can be commited I don't think a believer could. As long as we we believe in The Trinity as it is presented Is believing in Jesus enough to be saved? | CARM.org

 

[JoeP222w]

If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it?

No. If they could then they are not a believer.

Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven?

This is say that a mental illness is greater than, more powerful than God's salvation. This is not true.

 

[Ken Rank]

Well, some people are not able to speak, so my "Contempt against the Spirit"
law must accommodate the disabled per the Americans with Disabilities Act.
So "contempt against the Spirit" goes hand in hand with rejecting the H.S.
The two are the same. I could switch to "Diss'in" the Holy Spirit, perhaps.

I don't disagree, we can't lay down a blanket statement that covers all people and situations. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit IS speaking profanely or in a damaging way about the Spirit. However, just as adultery can take place when a man lusts in his heart, and murder when one hates... so too then, I surmise, can blasphemy against the Holy Spirit also be something that takes place in the heart. When the heart truly holds the Spirit in contempt and the reverence is diminished or non-existent... we have probably crossed that line.

 

[Ken Rank]

Blaspheme would be to call what you know is holy, unholy... And, rejecting it knowing it is holy...

Yes, it is verbal (though see my last post above this one) and it demeans the Spirit... perhaps attributing His work to darkness.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

no they cannot, as the "unforgivable sin" is sinning against the full knowledge of God in rejecting it and turning against it willfully.

 

[Andrew Jeremiah]

Okay so everyone knows what the unforgivable sin is and was in Jesus`s day. Many people say the unforgivable sin cannot be commited today because Jesus isn't walking on the Earth anymore. But I don't know. If the unforgivable sin could be commited today could a believer commit it? Say they have a mental illness and part of their mental illness is that they say really bad things about the holy spirit and Jesus could they be forgiven? I'm asking because I am the person with the mental illness and part of dealing with my illness everyday is dealing with thoughts that the holy spirit could be Satan. I mean Jesus says in John 6:37-6:40 that he will not lose a single believer so my salvation should be as secure as any other believers but I still cannot stop these thoughts from coming into my head no matter how many meds I take. I want Jesus to cure me so that I will never blasphemy him or any part of God anymore but he wont. Its almost as if Jesus hates me and doesn't understand how bad this is making me feel. So is it possible for a believer to commit the unforgivable sin? If not why? If yes we would eventually get the punishment we deserve for saying such things. But why would Jesus give us the holy spirit in the first place? And why would Jesus say he would not lose a single believer if believers could be lost? Wouldn't that make Jesus a liar? And wouldn't that mean that saying a believer could lose his salvation call Jesus a liar from his numerous statements in the bible that say that a believer cannot lose their salvation? I mean... I'm just as saved as any other believer right?

If I may....

The UN-forgivable Sin is to NOT be in Covenant with God.

To be non-Elect.

 

[Dave-W]

the "unforgivable sin" is sinning against the full knowledge of God in rejecting it and turning against it willfully.

Chapter and verse please.

 

[Dave-W]

The UN-forgivable Sin is to NOT be in Covenant with God.
To be non-Elect.

Chapter and verse please.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've read it. What you said makes sense. Jesus is not on earth doing miracles anymore. That's exactly what the people who Jesus said commuted it did it. They saw a miracle of God and... yeah. Anyway yeah no way I could have committed it.

No. One of the unforgivable sins (which is mentioned by Jesus in Matthew 12) is clearly stated here:

31 All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." (Matthew 12:31-32).​

It is strange to me why you and others would think that the unforgivable sin is something other than what Scripture says it means plainly above here. The above passage says that whoever SPEAKS (i.e. blasphemes) against the Holy Ghost, it will not be forgiven them. In other words, if any one speaks bad words against the Holy Ghost they will not be forgiven of such a thing. You cannot repent or ask God for forgiveness for that kind of sin. It is unforgivable. It is not forgivable in this life and is not forgivable in the life to come (i.e. the Millennium or the 1,000 year reign of Christ). There will be no unbelievers in the Millennium, so you can forget the interpretation that says that rejecting God in this life is speaking of the unforgivable sin. Nowhere does Scripture say anything of the kind. Anyone can commit the unforgivable sin. It does not matter if they are a believer or an unbeliever. Anyone can say bad words against the Holy Ghost. Granted, a believer who is faithful will strive to be guarded against doing such a thing (of course).

 

[Neostarwcc]

Thank you for all your replies. I'm too far behind on this thread to reply to them all but I've read most of the thread. I just wanted to say that I'm not going to let this bother me anymore. If I did commit the unforgivable sin I would only end up getting the punishment I deserve. Each and every one of us deserves hell we are only saved because of Gods grace and desires. Plus if I did go to hell for something that I cannot help or control wouldn't that be unjust? The bible is kind of silent on mental illness as a whole but I know that there were schizophrenic people in Jesus`s time. I don't think that Jesus would have abandoned them because of them losing their minds. I don't think Jesus has abandoned or forgotten about me. He loves me. I do believe that I am going to be with Jesus when I die and that's what matters. And when I finally do die ill be cured! Something for me to look forward to.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for all your replies. I'm too far behind on this thread to reply to them all but I've read most of the thread. I just wanted to say that I'm not going to let this bother me anymore. If I did commit the unforgivable sin I would only end up getting the punishment I deserve. Each and every one of us deserves hell we are only saved because of Gods grace and desires. Plus if I did go to hell for something that I cannot help or control wouldn't that be unjust? The bible is kind of silent on mental illness as a whole but I know that there were schizophrenic people in Jesus`s time. I don't think that Jesus would have abandoned them because of them losing their minds. I don't think Jesus has abandoned or forgotten about me. He loves me. I do believe that I am going to be with Jesus when I die and that's what matters. And when I finally do die ill be cured! Something for me to look forward to.

Currently, what do you think the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is?
Is it the imaginary Eternal Security definition?
Or is it the definition I provided in Matthew 12:31-32?

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

Unpardonable sin? Moses asked God.
Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. And the Lord plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.
Exodus 32:32-35
There is an idea of being (blotted) out of the Lords book. Whorshipping golden images or thou shall have no other God before me.
***However with Christ’s crucifiction on the cross he covered “ALL” sin under his blood. So there is no unpardonable sin. ***There is only sin , No big or small just sin.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:14
How do you sin against the Holy Ghost?
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Mark 3:29
Sins against the Spirit committed by unbelievers are: To blaspheme (Mat_12:31); resist (Act_7:51); insult (Heb_10:29); “despite,” Literally, insult). Believers’ sins against the Spirit are: To grieve Him by allowing evil in heart or life (Eph_4:30); (Eph_4:31) and to quench Him by disobedience (1Th_5:19).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Unpardonable sin? Moses asked God.
Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them. And the Lord plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.
Exodus 32:32-35
There is an idea of being (blotted) out of the Lords book. Whorshipping golden images or thou shall have no other God before me.
***However with Christ’s crucifiction on the cross he covered “ALL” sin under his blood. So there is no unpardonable sin. ***There is only sin , No big or small just sin.
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:14
How do you sin against the Holy Ghost?
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Mark 3:29
Sins against the Spirit committed by unbelievers are: To blaspheme (Mat_12:31); resist (Act_7:51); insult (Heb_10:29); “despite,” Literally, insult). Believers’ sins against the Spirit are: To grieve Him by allowing evil in heart or life (Eph_4:30); (Eph_4:31) and to quench Him by disobedience (1Th_5:19).

No. Read Matthew 12:31-32. It says very clearly that SPEAKETH against the Holy Ghost is what BLASPHEMY is. We even see an example of this with the Pharisees. So I am not sure how many ways the Word of God has to spell it out for folks for it to be clear. It is speaking bad words against the Holy Ghost. That is what it is talking about.

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

Do you think you can lose your salvation once you have excepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:3,7-10

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In addition, not only do Christians distort what the unforgivable sin means in Matthew 12:31-32, but they also think that this is the one and only unforgivable sin, as well. For they think that when Jesus says, "all sin and blasphemy will be forgiven", they think that this is an absolute statement with no exceptions. However, God's Word does not always speak in absolutes. For Scripture has to be compared with Scripture.

Anyways, we learn that nobody can be forgiven if:

1. They commit suicide and stay dead
(1 Corinthians 3:17) (1 John 3:15).
(For it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this, the judgment - Hebrews 9:27).

2. They worship the beast.
(For their names are not written in the book of life since the foundation of the world - Revelation 13:8).

3. Apostasy (Rejecting Jesus as One's Savior (the faith) after one has become enlightened by the Spirit) (Hebrews 6:4-6 cf. Hebrews 6:1 that says, principle doctrine of Christ: Which is faith towards God, and repentance).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you think you can lose your salvation once you have excepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?

Yes. God does not keep us against our own wills to be saved. If we want to leave, we can choose to do that of our own free will. Usually it is not just the obvious reason, either (like rejecting Christ). Serious sin can separate a person from God unless they repent (i.e. they ask God's forgiveness and they forsake that sin).

 

[Benaiahian Monk]

Christ also said : i never knew you. Which means These things are not in the child of God.
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:23.
In edit , you cannot come and go as you please. You are or you are not.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you think you can lose your salvation once you have excepted Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:3,7-10

In 1 John 1:10: Nowhere do Conditional Salvationists and or Eternal Security Proponents deny that they have sinned in the past tense. We all agree that we have sinned in the past. So this is talking about the gnostic belief (i.e. those who believed sin did not exist because it was an illusion or not real). Christian Scientists believe sin is an illusion. So 1 John 1:10 would apply to them. As for 1 John 1:8: This is talking in the present tense. It is saying if we say we have no sin (i.e. in the sense that sin does not exist for us when we do sin), we lie and do not the truth. This has to be the interpretive understanding of this verse because if it is not, then 1 John 2:4 would be lying. For it says that he [i.e. anyone] who does not keep His commandments, they are a liar and the truth is not in them.

As for 1 John 1:7:
This actually disproves the Eternal Security type belief. It says you have to walk in the light as He [i.e. Christ] is in the light and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses you of all sin. So you have to walk in the light [obey God's commands] to get the cleansing saving blood to be applied.