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Featured Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Jason, from reading all of your posts on why a man can lose his salvation, it is clear that the error of your thinking comes down to YOUR misunderstanding of the WORD PERFECT.

    Many readers of the Bible have believed that a Christian can reach a point of sinless perfection in this life. This teaching is based on passages such as Matthew 5:48.......
    "You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

    Why would Jesus command perfection if it is impossible to be perfect? Does the Bible really teach that a Christian can live without sinning?

    Not necessarily. A large part of the misunderstanding centers on the meaning of the word translated "perfect" in Matthew 5:48 and similar verses. The Greek word telios can mean "perfect," "complete," or "mature." Because translators do not want to give the wrong idea about God ("Be mature, as your heavenly Father is mature"), they typically translate the word as "perfect." However, the idea of maturity or completeness is much more fitting in this context and in the overall teachings of Scripture.

    For example, James 1:4 tells Christians to become "perfect and complete"; however, James 3:2 says that all believers stumble "in many ways." Obviously, James 1:4 refers to being "mature and complete," not sinless.

    This interpretation is strengthened by the apostle Paul's experience. If anyone could claim to live fully for Christ and to have reached sinless perfection, it was Paul. Yet he still struggled with sin: "I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me" (Romans 7:15-20).

    Paul, an apostle and mature believer, continued to sin ("the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing"). If sin was still a problem for Paul, why would we expect to reach a point of sinless perfection in this life? Are we greater than Paul?

    On the positive side, the Bible promises a day when every believer will escape temptation and the struggle with sin. First John 3:2 says, "Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is." Becoming like Christ in His presence will include being free from sin and its effects in this life. Until then, our goal must be to grow in maturity and resist temptation (1 Corinthians 10:13). The work God began in us will one day be finished (Philippians 1:6).
    Is entire sanctification possible? Can Christians achieve sinless perfection in this life?
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Notice how you did not address verse 11 (Romans 3:11)?
    Again, if you believe that the New Testament saint is always in sin (present tense) as per Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23, then you must also believe that Romans 3:11 is talking about how the New Testament saint does not have any understanding (present tense) and that he does not seek after God (currently), too. Are you saying that you and all other believers do not seek after God and have no understanding? Surely not. So if such is true for Romans 3:11, then you must conclude that Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is talking about unbelievers who reject God in this life and it is talking about the life of Christians before they accepted Christ (when they were unbelievers).

    Actually, that is not true. Jesus said that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Jesus said to two people to, "sin no more." (John 5:14) (John 8:11).

    Actually, that was not Jesus, but it was James who said that. James essentially says this in James 2:10.

    Yes, you are referring to things like Matthew 5:28-30, and 1 John 3:15. Both of these kinds of sins leads to spiritual death for a believer or unbeliever unless they repent of them. Matthew 5:28-30 says that if a man looks upon a woman in lust, his whole body can be cast into hellfire. 1 John 3:15 says that if one hates their brother, they are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

    While it is true we initially and ultimately need the grace of God to save us, it is also equally true that we need to allow Christ to do the good work through our lives (in the form of obedience to His commands in the New Testament), too.

    This is the popular belief in the churches today.
    But Jesus says narrow is the way.
    Scripture says we also need works and or holiness as a part of the salvation process.
    For faith without works is dead (James 2:17);
    And without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).
     
  3. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Why would I need to speak to a verse which is so self explanatory????

    This is the 4th time you have placed words into my mouth. I DID NOT say that all New Test. believers are in sin all of the time.

    "There is NONE that seeketh after God".

    Jason. Isn't that what God said??? Do you think that God can lie????

    Jason, my friend, you are drowning in a sea of misunderstanding and according to your own words you are working as hard as you can to prove what YOU want to believe You have even misspoken my words at least 4 times so as to make your theology look better.

    All you have done in all of these posts is to take the word "PERFECT" and tried to make that word into a doctrine of salvation.

    YOU ARE NOT PERFECT! YOU will never be perfect on this side of heaven.

    I went to the trouble to correctly speak to every verse that you have posted and NOT ONE SINGLE VERSE VALIDTES "sinless perfection" neither has there been one that proves a man can loose his salvation.

    Now I can make the Scriptures say what I WANT them to say but that is not correct or proper hermeneutics and is not acceptable Bible study but it is what you are doing. YOU are not adding anything to the conversation except repeating the same thing over and over again and for those reasons I am going to withdraw from this conversation with YOU.

    I hope that you will again look at these issues. I know that if you purchased a carpet with a lifetime warranty and it wore out in one year, you would rightly complain that the carpet company violated its word. You would say that the carpet is defective and it needs to be replaced with one that will never wear out. Our salvation has a promise of eternal life. I cannot reconcile the word eternal with the idea of being revoked at some future occurrence because I SINNED. I would be interested in arguments showing how everlasting life doesn't last! Thank you again for taking the time for this discussion and I appreciate your comments.

    You seem like a fine person and I wish you well but I can not keep doing this kind of arguing where I see absolutely no growth on your part.
     
  4. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    When a persons name is written in the lambs book of life . It’s not written in pencil .
     
  5. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    No, It's written in blood...

    God Bless!
     
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  6. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    Selah!
     
  7. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed!
     
  8. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    I myself do not believe that our state of life offers certainty beyond a sure hope about the next. God made us self determined creatures. When I said that eternal security is possible I meant as a singular special grace, not a universal grace. The heart disposed to this kind of grace is a heart that has deeply surrendered the will to God. A martyr may receive this kind of grace as they follow Christ to the cross.
     
  9. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    I'm afraid I wasn't able to articulate what I meant. What you seem to be describing my good brother, is a universal grace that I believe can only be singular. If one were to receive it they would be predisposed to keep it just between God and themselves. It could even be destructive to the mission of the person it serves to reveal it. Remember Jesus not allowing the devils to reveal who He is? Or Jesus sternly ordered the Apostles to tell no one after Peter said 'you are the Son of the Living God. For us there is a grace that predisposes the heart mind and soul to enter a state of total surrender to the will to God. Again it isn't universal. Which is the claim of OSAS doctrin. That the salvation of Christ is irresistible universal grace. The first martyr Stephen gave that grace expression it when he prayed at the top of his voice that his murderers not be held accountable as he breathed his last. You just can't have a whole community with eternal security, at least not the kind I see in the Scriptures. What you good brothers are citing from scripture is the hope of faith. A hope that increases as faith does to a sure hope that is mistaken for certainty.IMHO. I haven't read yet a Scripture that OSAS Christians use that goes beyond that. No scripture I know reveals that faith in of it'self has an eternal property to offer. It can be dead or alive and it ends. I don't know that you would think that a belief in OSAS is required to be a Christian? I't's been said to me before, " if you don't know you're saved you aren't saved you're still hell bound"
     
  10. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    The reason that many scholars prefer the term “particular redemption” as opposed to “limited atonement” is because the term “limited” could be misleading to some who do not understand exactly what is limited. The doctrine does not place a limit on the power of the atonement; rather it limits the atonement’s scope. The issue concerns the atonement’s efficiency, not sufficiency.

    Due to both the difficulty of the doctrine and fact that many feel that the Bible does not teach particular redemption, the majority of American churches today instead believe in what is called general redemption or universal atonement, which promotes the idea that the death of Christ was designed to include all humankind, regardless whether all believe. Proponents of universal atonement assert that when the Bible states that Christ died for all it means exactly that – Christ died for everyone. Not only is this the most prominent position in today’s church, it is actually the historic view of the church including virtually all writers before the Reformation with the possible exception of Augustine.

    Then I would add that if we do not have FAITH that moves us then we do not have saving faith to begin with. According Paul, when we are actually saved by faith there will also be am OBEDIENCE of FAITH.

    FAITH should move us to attend church.
    Faith should me us to pray.
    FAITH should move us to be witnesses for Christ.
     
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  11. Major1

    Major1 Well-Known Member

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    May I ask you that If getting to heaven depended on our "holding on," or being in "sinless perfection", do you think one redeemed person would enter the mansions of glory? Certainly not. No flesh shall glory in its faithfulness.

    Galatiians 3:3 says................
    "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?".

    How much better is the language of faith in Philippians 1:6............
    "Being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ".

    From start to finish, John 2:9 says.......... "Salvation is of the Lord".
     
  12. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    Amen!!!!!Selah
     
  13. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    I am not Lutheran but I know when I hear the truth. This goes to show you not all Lutherans are created equal. In the book By Martin Luther ( I tried and tried to link it to this reply but due to operator ignorance I could not).
    A simple way to pray, for Martin Luther’s Barber .Pastor Wolfmueller , The introduction to this he mentions “ Forgiveness for ALL our sins.
    The entire work is a good read he denounces some things that should be and I think ML was a smart man and a brave one .
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Then how do you interpret 1 John 1:8?
    Do you not believe it is saying if we say we have no sin (in the present tense) we deceive ourselves?

    You are still not offering an explanation to what Romans 3:11 means so as to defend your belief that we cannot overcome sin or walk uprightly in this life. For you believe we will always sin at some point, right? Is not your interpretation on Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 proof of that? Now, if you are going to believe Romans 3:10 and Romans 3:23 is talking about the believer in the present tense (and it is not exclusively talking about their old life when they were an unbeliever), then you must conclude that Romans 3:11 is saying that the believer (in the present tense) is without understanding and the believer (in the present tense) is not seeking after God.

    What you are espousing here is your own opinion. Do you think I agree? Anyways, please stick with the discussion with Scriptures and do not seek to make it about the poster. Such things are violation of rules. Granted, I am pretty easy going, but you should be aware of the rules (never the less).

    A normal English dictionary and the context supports the use of the English words, "perfect", "perfected", "perfecting", "perfection", "blameless", "without fault", etc.

    I never said I was.
    Only God is perfect and He is the One that can make believers to walk perfectly in His will (if they submit to Him). See Psalms 18:30, and Hebrews 13:20-21.

    Yet, the Bible says,

    1 "Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
    2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God."
    (1 Peter 4:1-2).

    This says as Christ suffered in the flesh, arm yourself with the same mind. Why? For he [i.e. the believer] that has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin. That he [i.e. the believer] should no longer live THE REST of HIS TIME (i.e. here on Earth while they are alive] in the lusts of the flesh [i.e. sin] but they should live unto God. This is what the passage says plainly. To make it say something else is to simply change it because we don't like what it says.

    I believe I showed you otherwise, but you are not willing to here out my points in what I said.

    Again, your opinion and false accusation. I challenged you by showing you what the Bible says plainly and I even showed you the context, etc. You simply are not willing to accept what I have shown you plainly with Scripture.

    Scripture is full of warnings to believers. Wherever you read where you think a verse or passage talks about Eternal Security, not too far from such a text is a warning that we can fall away, or be cast into fire, or outer darkness, cut off, etc.

    Growth I believe is when we as believers live more holy and righteous according to God's Word.
    I do not believe in Eternal Security because it can easily be taken as a license to sin by many.
    Eternal Security seeks to minimize the reality of sin and the consequences for the believer in the after life.
    I do pray you will seek the Scriptures (from the other viewpoint).

    For I used to believe in Eternal Security. But I found that it is not a doctrine that can be supported in the Bible.

    May God bless you;
    And good day to you.
     
  15. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Q: Can a believer commit the unforgivable sin?
    A: No
     
  16. Benaiahian Monk

    Benaiahian Monk Benaiah “ the Lord builds” 2 Samuel 23:20

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    Eternal security is not a license to sin . And immorality itself is sin . You must take an account for your sin . When death comes over you.
    Everyone must take an account for sin.
    But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    Matthew 12:36
    Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
    Matthew 18:23

    For we are in danger to be called in question for this day's uproar, there being no cause whereby we may give an account of this concourse.
    Acts 19:40
    You will give an account for your sin. God is orderly and is not “give and take”. That “wishy washy” “flakey” etc .That is not the description of Christ .
     
  17. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Browsing through again and found this.



    John 21-25
    But there are also many other things that Jesus did; if every one of them were written down, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
     
  18. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Well-Known Member

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    We saw that the Pharisees (and not Christians) fit "whosoever speaks a word against the Holy Spirit" and were the topic of discussion throughout the entire chapter of Matthew 12. This particular type of blasphemy cannot be duplicated today. The Pharisees were in a unique moment in history. They had Jesus Christ, the Son of God Himself standing right in front of them, and they saw with their own eyes the miracles He did. Never before had so much divine light been granted to men and if anyone should have recognized Jesus for who He truly was, it was the Pharisees.

    Yet in spite of this, they blatantly chose deliberate defiance! They purposely attributed the work of the Spirit to the devil, even though the truth and proof were obvious. Jesus declared their willful blindness to the obvious truth (the light does not shine any brighter than this) to be unpardonable. Their blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was their final rejection of God’s grace. This "exact" scenario cannot be duplicated today. What is unpardonable today is continued UNBELIEF.

    I find that statement to be ironic, but you have your NOSAS agenda to promote.
     
  19. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    This may be so. But God's Word never says that we are to seek out these unknown things that were never written down. All of what we need to know is in the Holy Scriptures. Everything has to be in line with God's Word. Why? Well, it is written,

    "...if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20).

    Anyways, if you are in doubt about if a believer is supposed to speak, think, and act only in line with God's Word when it comes to spiritual matters, then please check out my written case below.

    A Biblical Defense of Sola Scriptura!

    Sola Scriptura is the position that you can trust Scripture and Scripture alone as your sole authority for your faith and life. That the revelation known as the Bible can be trusted as your final word of authority for knowing God, salvation, true love, right living, and truth. Now, while there may be other books, letters, or epistles mentioned in Scripture that we don't have currently, they are not a part of the cannon of God's Word today, for there is no other written texts or revelations that is needed besides the Bible for all spiritual matters. For the Bible is unlike any other book in human history. It is clearly a book that is divine in origin that is backed up by many evidences in Science and History.

    Now, some might object and point out that you can't prove Sola Scriptura from Scripture because such a position wouldn't have existed until the close of Revelation because the apostles were still speaking and writing the Word of God. However, that is not Sola Scriptura, though. Sola Scriptura is putting your faith in the written Word of God and believing it is suffient for all matters concerning one's faith in God. But what about the spoken Word of God? Does that not conflict with Sola Scriptura? No. First, the spoken Word of God was confirmed by the written Word of God (Acts 17:11). Second, one truth (the Spoken Word of God) was not in conflict with another truth (i.e. the Written Word of God). They both breathed in harmony until one passed away. In other words, picture it in your mind that there are two branches or sticks. One branch represents the Spoken Word and the other branch represents the Written Word. Now imagine one of those branches starting to vanish away out of thin air until it is gone. Is the one branch that remains any different just because the other branch is gone? Yeah, but wouldn't Sola Scriptura only exist until after the close of Revelation with Revelation 22:18-19 because you can't add anymore words to God's Word? No. This is not an exclusive teaching within Scripture; For the Bible teaches elsewhere that we are not to add to the written Word of God, too (Deuteronomy 4:2) (Deuteronomy 12:32) (Proverbs 30:5-6).

    Anyways, the purpose of this study is to provide passages to help the reader in possessing Scripture so that they can trust in one divinely inspired written revelation or book (i.e. the Bible) for all spiritual matters in regards to having love, faith, and salvation in Him.

    Also, before we examine this study, it is important to note that there are 3 major Words spoken about within Scripture that are connected to one another. There is the:

    (1) Living Word of God (Jesus),
    (2) Spoken Word of God (Either from God or His people),
    (3) Written Word of God (Scripture).

    All three are perfect and will endure for forever.
    All three are tied together and are always connected.

    The Biblical Case for Sola Scriptura:

    I. All Scripture is Profitable for Doctrine, Correction, Righteous Teaching.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17
    "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

    A. All Scripture is profitable:

    (a) for doctrine, (because)
    ~ (1) Scripture is sufficient for eternal life (1 John 5:13).
    (b) for correction (and)
    (c) for instruction in righteousness,
    (It is sufficient in righteous training because):
    ~ (1) Scripture brings about hope (faith). (Romans 15:4).
    ~ (2) Scripture can be hid within one's heart so as not to sin against God. (Psalm 119:11)

    All Scripture is profitable so that the man of God:
    (d) May be perfect.
    (e) Completely furnished unto all good works.
    ~ (1) For speaking Scripture provides spiritual nutrition or life (Matthew 4:4)
    ~ (2) For Scripture brings about joy (1 John 1:4)
    (In fact, one of the fruits of the Spirit is joy) (Galatians 5:22)
    All Scripture is profitable so that the man of God may be perfect andcomplete unto all good works. For Scripture is profitable in (1) doctrine, (2)correction, and (3) training in righteousness. All three of these things are essential to a person's faith in God and will lead the man of God to beperfect and completeunto all good works. Not some good works. But allgood works. No oral Words of God alone were ever mentioned to do such a thing for us currently or during the time the "Written Word of God" came into being. No "Spoken Word of God" was ever mentioned to make the man of God perfect and complete unto all good works in addition to Scripture. This shows us that Scripture and Scripture alone is sufficient in and of itself because it will lead the man of God unto perfection and being fully furnished unto every good work.

    For man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of his mouth that is from God. This is to live spiritually. For it is how one's faith even begins. So we gain faith and a life with God. We gain spiritual nutrients from speaking God's Word, whereby we can grow spiritually so as to conform to the image of Christ in being perfect and to allow Christ to do every good work within us. For you are what you eat. For the seed of the Word took root within your heart when you first believed and it grows within you to bring forth much fruit. However, how can you believe or grow if there is no "Written Word of God" which is nailed down in written form for all to agree?

    II. Do Not Add or Take Away or Go Beyond What is Written:


    A. Do Not Add or Take Away From God's Word -

    Revelation 22:18-19
    "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

    Before you say it, yes, I am aware that Revelation 22:18-19 is speaking in context of the book of Revelation. However, we have to think about this logically, though. If you can't add any words to the book of Revelation, then you can't add any words to the Bible, too. Why? Well, the book of Revelation is the end of the Bible. It is the close of the whole book known as the Bible. It is the end. This is why I believe Revelation 22:18-19 is prophetic in the fact that it has a secondary fulfillment of speaking about "this book" in reference to "Revelation" in being a part of the book known as the Bible. How so? Well, there are several passages that have a double fulfillment to them. Here is one them:

    Hosea 11:1
    "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt."

    First Fulfillment (That was in the Past):
    Reference to the exodus of the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt.

    Secondary Fulfillment (That was in the Future):
    Reference to the Love of God calling his Son back to the comparative safety in Egypt so that he might die for his people. Matthew 2:15 - "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son."

    Also, in Revelation 2-3, Jesus gives His assessment of various churches. In these chapters, Jesus spoke of real churches that existed at the time when John written the book of Revelation, but also to the spiritual state of churches thru out time and today, too. For one of the churches is told to repent or they will go thru the tribulation. For obviously there has been Luke warm churches thru out history and today like the Laodician church.

    Besides, there are hundreds of double fulfillment passages in the Bible. How so? Well, the "Typifications of Christ" in the Old Testament are essentially double fulfillment type passages (See this forum thread here to check them out). In fact, Jesus said, "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39). In other words, the OT Scriptures are a double fulfilment. For the Old Testament Scriptures spoke of the events of it's time and they also spoke about Jesus Christ, too; For Jesus said so Himself.

    Also, consider the prophecy in the book of Daniel which was to seal up vision and prophecy versus the prophecy of the book of Revelation which is not sealed.

    ~ Daniel's End Times prophecy speaks of the events in Revelation. These prophecies of the End Times (that were in a book, i.e. scroll) were to be sealed up and closed (Daniel 12:4) because they were a far way off because Jesus still needed to come to save His people from their sins.

    Revelation 22:10 mentions the spirit of prophecy that the book is open.

    ~ Now, the book is open whereby the things within Revelation (That Daniel also talks about) is exposed so that it will be fulfilled in bringing in the End with Christ's return.

    For the entire book of Revelation is about the End Times leading up to Christ's return.

    For the end of Revelation closes with Jesus saying,

    "Surely I come quickly." (Revelation 22:20).

    This means that we should be looking to Jesus return and not some new Revelation.

    Paul said if we or an angel from heaven preach to you another gospel, let him be accursed (Galatians 1:8). It is strange that both the Mormon and the Muslim religion are founded on a revelation that comes from angels. Yet the Bible warns against this very thing.

    In fact, Jesus Christ commanded that we as believers were to preach this gospel unto all the world (or all nations) until Christ's return.

    Matthew 24:14
    "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

    This is also what we see in Revelation. For this same gospel message was still going out to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people (That is still an ongoing process today).

    Revelation 14:6
    "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,"

    In other words, God knew that the book of Revelation was going to be a part of the Bible. For surely God does not want us accepting new revelations or additional written works to add to the Bible like with the book of Mormon, the Koran, the added oral traditions of the RCC (Roman Catholic Church), and or the added writings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. For it is not a coincidence that this warning in Revelation 22 is at the close of our Bibles. In other words, the new reader (Who is unaware that the Bible is made up of 66 books) would understand that you are not to add or subtract from the book (i.e. the Bible) that they were reading. For God obviously intended Scripture to be compiled into one book known as the Bible. For Christians today do regard the Bible as one book, for it is published as one book and it is not generally published into 66 individual books or a 66 book volume set. There are no 66 individual old manuscripts in their original form anymore; And God does not exist in the past abiding with these old manuscripts. These manuscripts are dead and gone. For they were written in a language that is dead. All these things are in the past. However, our God is not a God who just exists in the past. Our God is present and ever active with His people today. For our God is not the God of the dead but of the living. He works with His people who are alive with the written Revelation known as the Bible. Adding any new words to that revelation would be adding to God's Holy written Word as it currently exists with His people who live today.

    B. Warning Against Altering God's Word is Confirmed in Old Testament:

    Forbidding in altering God's Word in Revelation 22:18-19 can also be seen in Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32 which says not to add or take away from the words of God's commands. This was the written Word. The Law. God did not want His words being changed or altered in any way by adding or taking away from His words. In fact, if somebody were to try and destroy God's Word, we see that God would protect or preserve His Word. We see an example of this in Jeremiah 36:22-32where king Jehoiakim burns the scroll in a fire (i.e. to eliminate God's Word) and then later God has Jeremiah re-create another roll that says the same thing. In other words, the written Word could not be destroyed by fire, just as the Living Word cannot be destroyed by fire. For the fourth who was in the fiery furnace with Daniel's friends was the Son of God (Daniel 3:25). For even when Moses had broken or shattered the tablets of stone that had the direct hand written Word of God (i.e. the Ten Commandments) on it (Exodus 32:19), the Lord our God had hand written them down on tablets of stone again (Exodus 34:1). For the Word of God cannot be broken (John 10:35). For Jesus said, "Heaven and Earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."(Matthew 24:35). Meaning, that Christ's words would be memorialized by being written down where they would not pass away (or be deleted by men).

    C. Do Not Go Above What is Written on how we think about men:

    The Bible says we are not to go above that which is written (concerning our thoughts of men). Granted, this verse is not all inclusive to the fact that we are not to go above Scripture on other matters, but what this passage does is show us a pattern that Scripture and Scripture alone is our sole authority on the faith and spiritual matters. It confirms that we are not to add or take away from God's Word.

    1 Corinthians 4:6
    "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

    III. Scripture Can Help us to Know the Certainty of Christ's Teachings.

    Luke sets out an order of declaration amongst the ministers of the Word to write out the events in order to Theophilus so that he might know for certain of the truth (on Christ's teachings) which he had been instructed.

    Luke 1:1-4
    "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed."

    IV. Christ quotes Scripture as an authority:

    In all Jesus' teachings He referred to the divine authority of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:17-18; Matthew 8:17;Matthew 12:40-42; Luke 4:18-21; Luke 10:25-28; Luke 15:29-31; Luke 17:32; Luke 24:25-45; John 5:39-47). He quoted the Old Testament 78 times, the Pentateuch alone 26 times. He quoted from Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Amos, Jonah, Micah, and Malachi. He referred to the Old Testament as “The Scriptures,” “the word of God,” and “the wisdom of God.” Jesus defeated the devil by using Scripture. For three words, "It is written" was said 3 times by Jesus inMatthew 4:1-11. This is confirmed by Ephesians 6 with how the Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God which is a part of putting on the amor of God so that one can stand against the wiles of the devil (Ephesians 6:11, 16). For the Living Word (Jesus) is like a two edged sword that divides asunder the soul and the spirit because He always speaks the words of God because He is God (Hebrews 4:12).

    V. Spoken Word is confirmed by the Written Word. Acts 17:11

    In Acts 17:11, we learn that the Bereans were more noble because they received the "Spoken Word of God" from Paul and Silas with an open mind but yet they searched the Scriptures (i.e. the Written Word of God) to see whether those things were so or not. So the "Spoken Word" is confirmed by the "Written Word." So the "Written Word" is a reliable authority that we can trust. For even Philip opened the heart of the Ethiopian's understanding from a reading in Isaiah (Thereby confirming the Written Word of God) (Acts 8:26-35). Jesus had opened the disciple's understanding on the Scriptures when He was with them (Luke 24:32); And Paul had told the Corinthians that their words that they speak in Christ (i.e. the Spoken Word of God) were not like as with many others who had corrupted the Word of God (i.e. the Written Word of God) (2 Corinthians 2:17).

    VI. 1 Corinthians 14:37 - What Paul had written is the Lord's commandments.

    Paul had written to the Corinthians about how if anyone thought of themselves as spiritual or a prophet, they were to know that what he had written unto them was the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). In other words, the "Written of God" that came from Paul was the Lord's Commandments; And by the authority of the Lord: Paul gave commands to the brethren in doing many things (1 Corinthians 7:10) (2 Thessalonians 3:4, 6, 12) (1 Timothy 4:11) (1 Timothy 6:11, 12, 13, 14).

    VII. The spoken/written Word is standard by which Jesus will Judge All Men.

    John 12:48 essentially says, Christ will judge us by His Word in the last day.
    Christ's spoken words have been memorialized within the Holy Scriptures for us to have faith in them. His words within the Bible will judge us in the last day.

    In fact, the unsaved dead will be judged by their works at the Great White Throne Judgment in this life by what is written in various books of Judgment (Revelation 20:12). This shows us that the written Word of God has power and authority to judge just as the books of Judgment have power and authority to judge a person's actions on the last day.

    For all believers will be judged by the Law of Liberty (James 2:12). This is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and or the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2) or the royal Law of love under the New Testament (James 2:8) (Romans 13:8-10).

    VIII. John's Gospel is sufficient alone for saving faith in Jesus Christ.

    What is purpose of John's book or gospel?

    John 20:30-31 says,
    "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."

    Did you catch that? It essentially says these things (Within the book of John) are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ and that we might have life (eternal life) through his name. In other words, a person can receive eternal life or salvation in Jesus Christ by reading the book of John. This is the "Written of God." In other words, this shows that the "Written Word of God" alone is sufficient to bring us to saving faith in God.
     
  20. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Well, this is simply not what the text says. Jesus did not say, "Do not worry, my friends." "The only ones who have committed this sin has passed." "For it was committed just recently and will not happen again."

    However, this is not the words Jesus used. Jesus did refer to the Pharisees but he said very clearly that this sin can happen again because He said, I quote,

    "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." (Matthew 12:32).

    Above in this verse, Jesus is clearly speaking in the present tense and not the past tense here. He also said, "WHOSOEVER" meaning ANYONE.

    For the Dictionary says:

    Who`so`ev´er
    1. Whatsoever person; any person whatever that; whoever.
    Whosoever will, let him take . . . freely.
    - Rev. xxii. 17.

    Source:
    Whosoever | Definition of Whosoever by Webster's Online Dictionary

    In other words, Matthew 12:32 is saying whosever speaks against the Holy Ghost (and not just the Pharisees he was referring to), it will not be forgiven of them. Now, if that is not enough for you, Jesus says that the "WHOSEVER" (ANY PERSON) commits this sin it will not be forgiven for those who commit this sin in:

    (a) This world (and):
    (b) The world to come (i.e. the Millennium).

    No. It's called you are not reading Scripture plainly. Matthew 12:32 is clear that anyone can commit this sin today. If verse 32 (and related parallel cross references) did not exist, then you may be onto something, but they do exist and thus your reasoning here does not make a lick of sense. For why say to us that WHOSEVER speaks against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven if it only applied to them? Did Jesus say it only applied to them? No. On the contrary, Jesus spoke to us as if this can happen for us today very clearly.

    The Scriptures actually teach against Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). Click on the following spoiler button for the many Scripture verses that refute OSAS.

    Long List of Verses Refuting Eternal Security or OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

    • Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.
    • Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.
    • Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.
    • Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.
    • Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.
    • Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.
    • Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.
    • Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).
    • Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?
    • Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.
    • John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).
    • John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.
    • John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.
    • John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?
    • Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.
    • Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
    • Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.
    • Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.
    • Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.
    • Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.
    • 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    • 1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.
    • 2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.
    • 2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
    • Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.
    • Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    • Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    • Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
    • Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.
    • Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.
    • Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
      … so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.
    • Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.
    • Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.
    • Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.
    • 1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.
    • 1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.
    • 1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.
    • 1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).
    • 1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.
    • Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.
    • Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?
    • Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
    • Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.
    • Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).
    • Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).
    • Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
    • Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
    • Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.
    • Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.
    • Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
    • Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.
    • Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.
    • James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.
    • 1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.
    • 2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.
    • 2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.
    • 2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.
    • 1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
    • 1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.
    • 1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.
    • 1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.
    • Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality
    • Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.
    • Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).
    • Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.
    • Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.
    • Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.
    • Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.
    • Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.
    • Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.
    • Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.
    Source:
    Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS

    The so called agenda you think I am promoting is simply the truth of the Scriptures that you do not want to hear. For if you were correct, then why have you not addressed the actual words in Matthew 12:32 that says "WHOSEVER" does not refer to meaning anyone as it is normally defined No dictionary I am aware of defines this word in such a way. What about the phrase of committing this sin in the world to come mean to you? How would you define committing this sin in the world to come? How does that make sense with what you said so far? In other words, you are not explaining what this verse is saying. You are just completely ignorig what Matthew 12:32 says and you are saying something else that is not there in Scripture.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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