Calvinist Robots

[DD2008]

without a fallen nature dying without sin is not defeating that fallen nature

I already provided evidence of Jesus enduring excruciating temptation before his death

Adam did not have a fallen nature but fell.

Christ did not have a fallen nature and did not fall.

Through Adam is sin.

Through Christ is righteousness.

Christ did what he was supposed to do. He was perfectly obedient even unto death on a cross that happened becasue he voluntarily took on himself the sin of man.

He defeated evil and now through his righteousness the Elect are saved.

If he had a fallen nature he wouldn't have been worthy to save humanity and would have guilt of his own. He succeeded where Adam failed.

 

[&Abel]

You misunderstand the truth that if Christ had any trace of sin in him we could not be saved.

He was perfectly sinless, a spotless sacrifice.

That's why the hosts of heaven praise Him by saying "Worthy is the Lamb."

he WAS without sin because sin in its strictest sense is not something inherited

a sinful nature yes...a predispostion to act on that nature yes...consequence that leads to other sin yes

personal responsibility no...not until an act of sin is committed

the problem is your trying to "scientifically" explain something thats spiritual

 

[&Abel]

Adam did not have a fallen nature but fell.

Christ did not have a fallen nature and did not fall.

Through Adam is sin.

Through Christ is righteousness.

Christ did what he was supposed to do. He was perfectly obedient even unto death on a cross that happened becasue he voluntarily took on himself the sin of man.

He defeated evil and now through his righteousness the Elect are saved.

If he had a fallen nature he wouldn't have been worthy to save humanity and would have guilt of his own. He succeeded where Adam failed.

are you kidding me? to be born with a sinful physical nature and resist

now THATS defeating death

 

[Thekla]

You misunderstand the truth that if Christ had any trace of sin in him we could not be saved.

He was perfectly sinless, a spotless sacrifice.

That's why the hosts of heaven praise Him by saying "Worthy is the Lamb."

He had a normal body and did not sin.
Of course we could not be saved unless He was sinless, but that does not mean He had a different body unless it is argued that matter is inherantly evil.

 

[DD2008]

he WAS without sin because sin in its strictest sense is not something inherited

a sinful nature yes...a predispostion to act on that nature yes...consequence that leads to other sin yes

personal responsibility no...not until an act of sin is committed

the problem is your trying to "scientifically" explain something thats spiritual

The sinful nature inherited from Adam is and is because of Original sin. the guilt of Adam's sin is imputed from Adam to all of his offspring. This is imputed sin.

Everyone who has ever lived has been guilty of Adam's sin except Christ because Chrit's father was God.

Read this link: http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...ference_between_original_sin_and_imputed_sin/

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Satan is a believer.

Truly? Then he obeys whom he believes! Why mock the truth with such a statement! Perhaps some false Christians can be placed with Satan, to believe yet full-heartedly disobey Christ. Shall we say truly truly when we say something to avoid mockers of truth. It is important to respect our words and guard each one that leaves our mouth. I also need to follow my own advice, and I am sorry to be angry; yet we must not play with words with no respect or fear of God.

 

[DD2008]

He had a normal body and did not sin.
Of course we could not be saved unless He was sinless, but that does not mean He had a different body unless it is argued that matter is inherantly evil.

He had a human body uncursed by sin.

He could only die by sin or voluntarily. He died voluntarily taking on the sins of man.

 

[&Abel]

He had a human body uncursed by sin.

He could only die by sin or voluntarily. He died voluntarily taking on the sins of man.

we die for our own sins

otherwise you better start repenting for every sin committed by everyone within your lineage

do I feel guilty for things my father does? no...and I shouldn't..embarrassed maybe but not guilty

am I guilty for something my father did before he even met my mother

of course not

 

[Thekla]

He had a human body uncursed by sin.

He could only die by sin or voluntarily. He died voluntarily taking on the sins of man.

Do you mean to say that Adam's body was cursed ?

 

[Thekla]

I think this got lost back there

Originally Posted by DD2008

Here is a link on Original sin.

http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceL..._original_sin/
​

To begin with, the claim that we "inherit sin" through Adam as a physical inheritance seems to teach that matter is evil. Yet Satan fell without such a body as ours, and nowhere is it taught that matter is inherently evil.

I did not find the matter of the image and the likeness addressed here, nor the claim supported that Adam's sin is imputed to us.

In Psalm 14:2, 3 we read: "The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men, to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside; together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one." Here again we see unrighteousness as a property of the human race: "they have all turned aside...there is no one who does good."
​

If not the result of a rhetorical device, then this statement contradicts the witness of (for ex.) the Gospel of Luke that states that Zachariah, Elizabeth, Symeon, etc were righteous. Which do you choose ?
__________________

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I know what your saying and I agree

BUT our future choices are already known as well

but I do believe satan is a robotic style slave to his corrupted desires

I don't think that God is bored or that he bores himself. God may know everything, but is it really a full circle and just repeating his knowledge. For a creative God and loving one, why would he be interested in a repeating of what he already knows. Something sounds amiss. We have more control than we know and this is part of the Glory of God. Even the son of God, Jesus shows us great humility by acknowledging that only the Father knows. There is no shortness of love or the freewill that springs forth from its giving. The glory of God will not be tainted by the likes of Calvinism or others. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Stephen Kendall]

Have a good day. I have responsibilities to attend to. Will be back in the future, if God is willing. Love to all.

 

[Thekla]

It is the matter that humans cannot choose God that concerns me -- because this means we can never voluntarily act which means we can never be Christlike and thus salvation is lost to all.

 

[&Abel]

there is something disturbing about all this

I can't help but feel its a way to excuse actions, shift blame, give up, be a victim etc

 

[MamaZ]

Excuse what actions? Shift blame to who? Give up what? Be a victim of what?

 

[MamaZ]

All Predestination says is that God chose us In Christ before the foundation of the world. That He showed us mercy when we deserved none. That our actions deeds and thoughts do not deserve grace. Because within ourselves we can do no righteousness.

 

[&Abel]

Excuse sins, shift blame to lineage, give up on trying to conquer sin, victim of humanity/god/circumstance

 

[&Abel]

All Predestination says is that God chose us In Christ before the foundation of the world. That He showed us mercy when we deserved none. That our actions deeds and thoughts do not deserve grace. Because within ourselves we can do no righteousness.

which is because we finish the race

he didn't pick us out...he knew we finished

finishing the race means striving against sin till death

period

 

[chestertonrules]

All Predestination says is that God chose us In Christ before the foundation of the world. That He showed us mercy when we deserved none. That our actions deeds and thoughts do not deserve grace. Because within ourselves we can do no righteousness.

Calvinist predestination adds the unfortunate twist that the elect are chosen without regard for their desire to follow God and seek his will.

Calvinists also claim that God rejects people before they are born without regard for their actions on earth.

 

[chestertonrules]

which is because we finish the race

he didn't pick us out...he knew we finished

finishing the race means striving against sin till death

period