Calvinist Robots

[DD2008]

without the stains of sin he would not be truly facing death...he had to have a body that craved the things of death

had he been without sin in his body he would have been as pure as Adam and yet as strong as god...in this state he would not have been tempted

Adam and Eve were tempted before they sinned.

A sinless person can be tempted of sin yet overcome it. that is what Christ did. Temptation to sin is not sinful, the overcoming of temptation is actually virtuous! Christ was born without the guilt of original sin because he is the Son of God. He, through his own merit stayed sinless. He took on the guilt of the sins of man voluntarily as a supreame act of righteousness. He died, rose, and ascended into heaven.

Now His righteousness can be imputed to sinners by the grace of election that results in God given faith.

 

[&Abel]

we are not born guilty

and yes Adam and Eve were tempted because they were carried away by their own lust

the spirit of god would not have been...it had to be a temptation from within and not a suggestion from satan spawning lust in his heart

 

[DD2008]

we are not born guilty

and yes Adam and Eve were tempted because they were carried away by their own lust

the spirit of god would not have been...it had to be a temptation from within and not a suggestion from satan spawning lust in his heart

If we're not born guilty why do infants die?

The bible records Satan tempting Jesus. Jesus overcame the temptation. He was victorious over sin and is still sinless.

 

[Thekla]

http://www.carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/federal-headship

Basically, Adams sin is imputed to people by their fathers. Christ's Father is God so he did not have the sin of Adam imputed to Him. Adam is the federal head of sin. Christ is the federal head of righteousness. Adam's sin is imputed to all of His children. Christ's righteousness is imputed to all of God's adopted Elect.

sorry, I did read it, twice and didn't 'get it'

There is no such teaching as original sin or imputed sin in the EO -- and I still don't understand after reading this article how it is supported biblically, much less in the history of the Church (as it does not occur in the early Christian writings, either).

Then, as we are to be like Christ (and I still would like to hear the Calvinist teaching on "in the image toward the likeness), if we are predestined and do not voluntarily come to Christ, then we cannot be like Christ. Because our sacrifice is not voluntary. If we toss out choice, we toss out the possibility of "like Christ". These teachings you (and others) have given indicate the distortion of the image to the point that it is lost. Then, the logical conclusion is that we can never choose and can never become like Christ -- to wit, there is no salvation for any person. At least, this is what the teaching suggests to me.

 

[&Abel]

yes he does but I believe its through his body

jesus is having those thoughts("if I jumped off of here the angels would save me") and then he corrects himself with the word

he would have also been without pain had it been a body free from the consequence of sin

infants die because of passed on consequence of sin...they are not personally guilty of sin

heck if they are taken outta this world without having to experience the pain of this life without even realizing they have to die...I'd say that could be interpreted as a gift

 

[DD2008]

sorry, I did read it, twice and didn't 'get it'

There is no such teaching as original sin or imputed sin in the EO -- and I still don't understand after reading this article how it is supported biblically, much less in the history of the Church (as it does not occur in the early Christian writings, either).

Then, as we are to be like Christ (and I still would like to hear the Calvinist teaching on "in the image toward the likeness), if we are predestined and do not voluntarily come to Christ, then we cannot be like Christ. Because our sacrifice is not voluntary. If we toss out choice, we toss out the possibility of "like Christ". These teachings you (and others) have given indicate the distortion of the image to the point that it is lost. Then, the logical conclusion is that we can never choose and can never become like Christ -- to wit, there is no salvation for any person. At least, this is what the teaching suggests to me.

Here is a link on Original sin.

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...at_is_the_biblical_evidence_for_original_sin/

 

[&Abel]

I like the term "Original Consequence"

its the consequences of sin that are passed on not sin itself

predisposition to sin is a consequence of sin

 

[DD2008]

yes he does but I believe its through his body

jesus is having those thoughts("if I jumped off of here the angels would save me") and then he corrects himself with the word

he would have also been without pain had it been a body free from the consequence of sin

infants die because of passed on consequence of sin...they are not personally guilty of sin

heck if they are taken outta this world without having to experience the pain of this life without even realizing they have to die...I'd say that could be interpreted as a gift

Christ had human flesh but it had no stain of sin because he didn't inherit anything sinful. He died voluntarily.

In regards to Original and Imputed sin Original sin is imputed to us through the male line and is what gives us our sick nature. Imputed sin is the imputed guilt of Adams sin. That also comes from dad.

Here's a link: http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...ference_between_original_sin_and_imputed_sin/

 

[&Abel]

Christ had human flesh but it had no stain of sin because he didn't inherit anything sinful. He died voluntarily.

In regards to Original and Imputed sin Original sin is imputed to us through the male line and is what gives us our sick nature. Imputed sin is the imputed guilt of Adams sin. That also comes from dad.

Here's a link: http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...ference_between_original_sin_and_imputed_sin/

yes he died voluntarily after resisting temptation from his flesh which is more of a feat then dying without it

 

[MamaZ]

without the stains of sin he would not be truly facing death...he had to have a body that craved the things of death

had he been without sin in his body he would have been as pure as Adam and yet as strong as god...in this state he would not have been tempted

Jesus had not the fleshly sin for He was not born of the seed of Man. When Jesus was tempted we see that it was an outside temptation of the devil and not of the lust that dwells within Him. In fact when Jesus was tempted He had fasted 40 days and 40 nights. Christ was the Only begotten son of the Father.. We are the Adopted sons and daughters of God.

 

[MamaZ]

yes he died voluntarily after resisting temptation from his flesh which is more of a feat then dying without it

Scripture does not teach us Jesus was tempted of His flesh so I don't know where you came up with this theory really. We see that Jesus was tempted of the devil. Jesus was never a slave to the god of this world through sin in His flesh. He took on a human body not a sinful nature.

 

[&Abel]

6and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written,
'(H)HE WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING YOU';
and
'ON their HANDS THEY WILL BEAR YOU UP,
SO THAT YOU WILL NOT STRIKE YOUR FOOT AGAINST A STONE.'"
7Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, '(I)YOU SHALL NOT PUT THE LORD YOUR GOD TO THE TEST.'"



I believe jesus is having an internal dialogue here


just like we battle with ourselves as well

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Scripture does not teach us Jesus was tempted of His flesh so I don't know where you came up with this theory really. We see that Jesus was tempted of the devil. Jesus was never a slave to the god of this world through sin in His flesh. He took on a human body not a sinful nature.

Did He have the capacity to sin?

Gala 4:4 When yet came the filling of the time, sends forth, the God, the son of Him, becoming/genomenon <1096> out of woman becoming/genomenon <1096> under Law.

 

[MamaZ]

we are not born guilty

and yes Adam and Eve were tempted because they were carried away by their own lust

the spirit of god would not have been...it had to be a temptation from within and not a suggestion from satan spawning lust in his heart

All men are born guilty before God because all men are born from sinners. Not a one here on earth has been born of a perfect sinless man. Why because sin dwells with in every person from the time of conception because when conceived they are concieved of sinner parents.

 

[&Abel]

Scripture does not teach us Jesus was tempted of His flesh so I don't know where you came up with this theory really. We see that Jesus was tempted of the devil. Jesus was never a slave to the god of this world through sin in His flesh. He took on a human body not a sinful nature.

do you not understand that unless he successfully defeated his sinful nature that his sacrifice means nothing?

without that sinful nature there is no struggle there is no battle

satans power is in our flesh and god defeated him...he died without sin

game over

 

[MamaZ]

Did He have the capacity to sin?

Gala 4:4 When yet came the filling of the time, sends forth, the God, the son of Him, becoming/genomenon <1096> out of woman becoming/genomenon <1096> under Law.

That is a question I cannot answer for scripture does not teach me this.

 

[MamaZ]

I could guess and say yes or no but I truly do not know.

 

[Tzaousios]

Christ had human flesh but it had no stain of sin because he didn't inherit anything sinful. He died voluntarily.

In regards to Original and Imputed sin Original sin is imputed to us through the male line and is what gives us our sick nature. Imputed sin is the imputed guilt of Adams sin. That also comes from dad.

According to Reformed theologians, what is the proper way to translate Romans 5:12 from the Greek? What implications does their translation have for their understanding of imputed guilt?

 

[MamaZ]

do you not understand that unless he successfully defeated his sinful nature that his sacrifice means nothing?

without that sinful nature there is no struggle there is no battle

satans power is in our flesh and god defeated him...he died without sin

game over

Do you not understand that Jesus is the Spotless lamb? Why would Jesus have to battle other than when led of the Spirit out in the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil? Jesus was the King from the day He was conceived in the womb of Mary. He was Gods ONLY begotten Son. He was before He was born. When Christ died on the cross He cried out it is Finished. God had sent His Son to die so that men could life. A sacrafice that only God could give for Only God is Holy. This is why it is nothing we can to to earn righteousness. This is why Jesus righteousness is imputed to us for we are sinful men and He is Holy.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

According to Reformed theologians, what is the proper way to translate Romans 5:12 from the Greek? What implications does their translation have for their understanding of imputed guilt?

Well, that depends if one wants to translate word-for-word or not according to the greek.
Here is what I come up with

Romans 5:12 Thru/because-of this even as thru one man the sin into the world entered and thru the sin the death, and thus into all men the death came-thru on which all sinned

Textus Rec.) Romans 5:12 dia touto wsper di enoV anqrwpou h amartia eiV ton kosmon eishlqen kai dia thV amartiaV o qanatoV kai outwV eiV pantaV anqrwpouV o qanatoV dihlqen ef w panteV hmarton