Calvinist Robots

[Rick Otto]

So, let me get this straight.

God made HUMAN robots for the sole purpose of burning them alive forever in conscious torment and this somehow is supposed to bring Him Glory...

and that God is also going to do that same thing to His Own children?

Right? Pete? Jacob? Rick? Albion? anyone?

Except for the red part I don't truck with, what if?

 

[squint]

Except for the red part I don't truck with, what if?

I've posed this before, but don't remember too many Calvinist/Reformeds rushing in to answer 'CAUSE it is a very difficult question for the position IF it's answered correctly.

All of Israel were taught in many places in the O.T. to be Gods children. Deut. 14:1 and Psalm 82:6 are the easiest examples to bring home the FACT. And of course we also know that not ALL of Israel or even very FEW of Israel were really 'elect' or 'remnant' or 'believers.'

So, IF this is a fact, that UNbelievers ARE Gods children and NOT 'elect' for salvation, THEN that means that God is going to burn His Own children alive in fire forever.

Yes or No?

And for the record Pete has been the only determinist to come clean with an answer, of YES.

My question THEN is:

IS GOD THE FATHER OF THE TOTALLY DEPRAVED???

Of course the constuct is loaded with danger so please feel free to avoid or delay response...

 

[jckstraw72]

How is it a cop-out? Because we refuse to think that God grants salvation based on the merits of a person?

bc if no one has merits worthy of salvation then how are some saved? and why those instead of those who are damned?

 

[JacobHall86]

I don't doubt that one bit. I do however believe there are far better understandings than Gods making my unsaved neighbors vessels of dishonor AND commanding me to LOVE same. I don't believe God is a hypocrite. Do you?


Sorry Jacob, but that is known as a false dilemma meaning that there are other alternative and legimate answers to these things.

I believe for example that all of mankind shall be saved by The Saviour of the world, and that all devils are the vessels of dishonor. It doesn't take a genius to see that devils and makind are [together in some fashion] in the N.T. I mean really, that fact is on just about every page. They are the logical other vessel. And guess what? There are numerous scriptures that point that direction outright as a condition of all mankind, even believers.


Christian Universalism was around long before Mr. Calvin my friend, and no, your imaginations of what that consists of is probably very wrong.. One can believe for the salvation of all mankind and STILL adhere to every single eternal torment scripture.

God is NOT going to burn His Own children/offspring alive in eternal conscious torment. There is not one single scripture that states such a position NOR is there a single named individual stated to be going to have that fate or even threatened with same.

So what you take for granted doesn't even exist in scripture. There will be a Lake of Fire. It will have eternal occupants. Those occupants ARE NOT going to be our fellow unsaved mankind whom God has commanded us as believers to LOVE no matter how much the DEVILS in mankind scream out for such things.

enjoy!

squint

You don't believe the Gospel, and have crucified Christ for nothing.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Reign it in, Jacob, the hostility is spilling all over the place. It's going to leave a stain.

 

[squint]

You don't believe the Gospel, and have crucified Christ for nothing.

Throwing out false equations, false dilemmas and false accusations are quite entirely pointless not to mention predictably ROBOTIC.

There is no requirement factor in Theology to leave ones brain at the threshold and be a mere repetitive parrot of other peoples positions.

If any position is sound/solid then it is also subject to the most severe scrutiny for proof and test. If it can't stand the testing, then it is FALSE or WEAK and there is no use following false, weak positions because of the potential that they are WRONG.

Any believer should ALWAYS want to follow what is RIGHT. They cannot DO SO when adhering to what is potentially WRONG.

We are not discussing personalities (Mr. Calvin.) We are handling and comparing his IDEAS to THE PERFECT IDEAL which is SCRIPTURE.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

You don't believe the Gospel, and have crucified Christ for nothing.

The Jews do not believe in the Gospel yet they had their own Messiah delivered up to be crucified. Don't pick on poor ole Squint

James 5:6 Ye condemn, ye Murder/efoneusate <5407> (5656) the Righteous-One, not He is resisting to Ye.

Revelation 9:21 And not they reform/repent out of the Murders/fonwn <5408> of them, nor out from their sorceries

 

[JacobHall86]

bc if no one has merits worthy of salvation then how are some saved? and why those instead of those who are damned?

Dude, you believe in works based salvation.

Gods choice is based solely on what he wants, not what you want.

Why did God choose Israel?

 

[JacobHall86]

Throwing out false equations, false dilemmas and false accusations are quite entirely pointless not to mention predictably ROBOTIC.

There is no requirement factor in Theology to leave ones brain at the threshold and be a mere repetitive parrot of other peoples positions.

If any position is sound/solid then it is also subject to the most severe scrutiny for proof and test. If it can't stand the testing, then it is FALSE or WEAK and there is no use following false, weak positions because of the potential that they are WRONG.

Any believer should ALWAYS want to follow what is RIGHT. They cannot DO SO when adhering to what is potentially WRONG.

We are not discussing personalities (Mr. Calvin.) We are handling and comparing his IDEAS to THE PERFECT IDEAL which is SCRIPTURE.

Calvinism has never been defeated, because it is the explanation of scripture. Furthermore, if you believe in universalism of any kind, you are not a Christian and have no place here.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Calvinism has never been defeated, because it is the explanation of scripture. Furthermore, if you believe in universalism of any kind, you are not a Christian and have no place here.

Then why isn't CF just all Calvinists by now?

 

[JacobHall86]

Then why isn't CF just all Calvinists by now?

You don't have to be a Calvinist to see that in scripture there are those who God has created that will spend eternity in a place of torment.

There is no place in scripture however, that states all people will be saved and exempt from punishmnent.

 

[Hentenza]

Mod Hat On
​

This thread has run its course and is accumulating reports. Thread is now closed.​