Calvinist Baptist Talk

[BT]

And I add, "some mistakenly assumed that all five points are 'calvinist' doctrine, which they are not, nor is it restricted to calvinists only but Christians in general. So while calminians may believe that once you are saved (it's up to you to grab the ring of life) you are always saved, the twist is that Calvinism doesn't allow for working with God to bring about salvation, it's up to God and God alone."

As for your questions BT, I think everyone is heated and it's best they sit for a while.

Actually if you want to be technical, none of the five points are "calvins" doctrine they are Augustines. But yeah there is definately some muddy water..

Yeah we can let them sit for awhile... no problemo.

 

[JM]

consider the foundational idea of Arminianism ....FREE-WILL , then see how that concept fits with the Yes , Calvinist doctrine of Once saved always saved , and you will see it doesn't fit too well!!

For those who don't think once saved always saved is Calvinist doctrine just consider the opposite doctrine (saved conditionally and many that were saved are lost) it can be easily defined as Arminian but it is equally claimed to be Biblical.

It just doesn't seem logical to me, God casts His vote for you, the devil casts his against you and you get to choose? No matter which way you slice it, it's not Grace, it reminds me of @#$%^&^%$ism.

 

[@@Paul@@]

It just doesn't seem logical to me, God casts His vote for you, the devil casts his against you and you get to choose? No matter which way you slice it, it's not Grace, it reminds me of @#$%^&^%$ism.

Grace is having that choice.... lack of grace would then be???

..........not having that choice.

What kind of grace would lead God to choose one soul over another?? In my eyes that's not grace that's "Natural Selection"...

What "characteristic" makes one person "ELECT" over another?

 

[BT]

Easy boys easy.


I'm going to wait until the discussion comes down a few hundred degrees then I'll reask my question. Some people in here are getting too upset.....


One

Two

Three

Breathe

Four

five

six

Breathe

 

[@@Paul@@]

Easy boys easy.


I'm going to wait until the discussion comes down a few hundred degrees then I'll reask my question. Some people in here are getting too upset.....

Who's getting upset!!!!!!!!



I think we are remaining calm... right guys??...................... guys??

 

[BT]

Who's getting upset!!!!!!!!



I think we are remaining calm... right guys??...................... guys??

consequently, I wasn't talking about you... but now that you mention it..

 

[cygnusx1]

Grace is having that choice.... lack of grace would then be???

..........not having that choice.

What kind of grace would lead God to choose one soul over another?? In my eyes that's not grace that's "Natural Selection"...

What "characteristic" makes one person "ELECT" over another?

Sovereign grace...........mercy instead of hardening ,

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 

[Miss Shelby]

hey there cygnus!!! How the heck are ya?

Michelle

 

[@@Paul@@]

Sovereign grace...........mercy instead of hardening ,

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

I can see how this could be a never ending and unfruitful debate.

I just don't get it.

 

[BT]

I can see how this could be a never ending and unfruitful debate.

I just don't get it.

Cygnus are you a Baptist? This is an in-house discussion so I just want to make sure that we're still in the "calvinist baptist talk" that the OP asked for... is all

 

[cygnusx1]

hey there cygnus!!! How the heck are ya?

Michelle

Me , I'm tickaty boo.......thanks for asking.

 

[cygnusx1]

Cygnus are you a Baptist. If not, leave. This is an in-house discussion and you seem to be stirring the pot.

I am a Baptist , if you want me to leave just throw me out..............

 

[BT]

I am a Baptist , if you want me to leave just throw me out..............

No I don't want you to leave.. I just want to keep it in house is all. I apologize if that was harsh... I'm tired today...no excuse but I'll use it anyway...sorry

 

[cygnusx1]

No I don't want you to leave.. I just want to keep it in house is all. I apologize if that was harsh... I'm tired today...no excuse but I'll use it anyway...sorry

that's OK brother , none of us is infallable......

God Bless you.

 

[@@Paul@@]

Sovereign grace...........mercy instead of hardening ,

Romans 9
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

OK, now that we know you're a Baptist.... For the above to be true God must then ELECT people for the opposite??

Do you think it's "possible" that God could "elect" someone knowing that they will "choose" Him at some point in their life - based on creation being a witness to the fact that there is a God?

.......plus the fact that your totally taking Romans 9 out of context. Romans 9 is about Israel's PAST and WHY God choose them and HOW he built their nation... Leaving Romans 9 in context, "Sovereign grace" would be how He called the Apostle Paul AND "hardening" would then be what happened to the nation (because He FOREKNEW they would reject Him anyway) - It's all part of the plan; "All Israel will be saved".

God choose to build a nation by calling out one man to "bless the entire world". However, God could have called out every single person on the planet and said "leave your land", but He didn't... I suppose He choose to call out one man so that He can harden the others?

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
G3114
makrothumeō
mak-roth-oo-meh'-o
From the same as G3116; to be long spirited, that is, (objectively) forbearing or (subjectively) patient: - bear (suffer) long, be longsuffering, have (long) patience, be patient, patiently endure.
​

...........God wishes everyone to come to repentance, which is why He is so patient.

The only proof of any "elect" i can see are those who God foreknew would actually repent....

 

[BT]

that's OK brother , none of us is infallable......

God Bless you.

Thanks bro

 

[BT]

BT,

Ask 'one' (1) of your questions again and as soon as I can, I'll do my best to answer it. Then we can move onto the next question, etc...sound ok?

SP

Ok Brother here is the question.


Will someone show me from the Scriptures:

you can't be saved until your born again and you can't be born again without being elect. So, you sit in sin until God calls and if you're one the elect then you will be born again.

 

[cygnusx1]

OK, now that we know you're a Baptist.... For the above to be true God must then ELECT people for the opposite??

Do you think it's "possible" that God could "elect" someone knowing that they will "choose" Him at some point in their life - based on creation being a witness to the fact that there is a God?

.......plus the fact that your totally taking Romans 9 out of context. Romans 9 is about Israel's PAST and WHY God choose them and HOW he built their nation... Leaving Romans 9 in context, "Sovereign grace" would be how He called the Apostle Paul AND "hardening" would then be what happened to the nation (because He FOREKNEW they would reject Him anyway) - It's all part of the plan; "All Israel will be saved".



God choose to build a nation by calling out one man to "bless the entire world". However, God could have called out every single person on the planet and said "leave your land", but He didn't... I suppose He choose to call out one man so that He can harden the others?

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

G3114
makrothumeō
mak-roth-oo-meh'-o
From the same as G3116; to be long spirited, that is, (objectively) forbearing or (subjectively) patient: - bear (suffer) long, be longsuffering, have (long) patience, be patient, patiently endure.

​

...........God wishes everyone to come to repentance, which is why He is so patient.


The only proof of any "elect" i can see are those who God foreknew would actually repent....

Before moving into deeper waters , just ask yourself one question......and think long and hard with God's face starring right at you , did God Choose you ?

 

[@@Paul@@]

Before moving into deeper waters , just ask yourself one question......and think long and hard with God's face starring right at you , did God Choose you ?

Well that's a silly question.... First off, if God was starring me in the face i'd be dead.. Moses could only look at the "back parts".

Second... I answered my view on this already; I hope you actually read my post...

Do you think it's "possible" that God could "CHOOSE" someone knowing that they will "choose" Him at some point in their life - based on creation being a witness to the fact that there is a God so that no one is without excuse in THAT day?

If God wanted to simply create some "elect" group of humans he would... No sense in sending the non-elect to hell, just don't create 'em. - As i see it; it's all about companionship.

 

[cygnusx1]

So your quite happy and thankful that God Chose YOU!