Calvinism, explained.

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GillDouglas

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I don't think anyone believes evil goes unchecked. What a man sows, he will reap.

And what about the bad that comes from sickness, divorce, or war? I believe good comes from evil. However, bad also comes from evil. My first marriage ended in divorce. It was not good for me nor my two children. My children lost a loving father, and I lost two precious children. Through circumstances I won't mention, I haven't see my children in over 20 years. I missed their growing into young adults; I missed the joy of being a part of their lives. I can't count the tears I've shed. Is this the plan I should accept from God? Or was this due to another person's choices? A very big part of my heart and life has been forever taken from me, and can't be replaced.

You lack the perspective to make a final call on any situation, we all do. Having also been through a divorce where children are involved I can relate and sympathize. I have not seen them in a few years now, but I take comfort in knowing there is a purpose in all things. I hope someday you can too.

With all the pain I've had, some want me to believe this is not the only disappointment I may experience. Some want me to believe my children, not only lost a father, but they may be lost forever by God's predestination. Sorry, there is no comfort whatsoever in this hideous belief.

Brother you say that "God will lead me to where I need to be" but lack the faith to see that all things are for His divine will and purpose!

Why pray for those we love, if God predestined them to hell? If they were predestined to hell, then no amount of prayer will change that.

Because we do not know who is predestined to Hell, and its not our job to know. We pray for all as if all will be saved. There is no hurt in trying.

I am glad your marriage has been predestined to work. Some of us aren't as fortunate.

Not the first one, but my current marriage going on five years has been an immense blessing.

Does He use unbelievers to bring about His purpose of ruined lives?

For all things.

You're welcome Doug. However, I will never agree with your beliefs. Some come on here and accuse me of so many things, without knowing who I am. One has even questioned my salvation, and called my questions and inquiries silly. However, I don't hold grudges or revenge on anyone. God will lead me to where I need to be.

Never say never! I wouldn't worry about the accusers and I may have been one of them for a time. We may not agree on the finer points regarding salvation but you've made no indication of being anything other than a Christian in my opinion. I'm thankful you do not hold a grudge, we might turn out to be friends after all.
 
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EmSw

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A man's enemies will be those of his own household.
Christ does not bring peace, but a SWORD!

Matthew 10
Christ Brings Division
34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.


Problem is people do not believe what Christ has said, and the 'hate' scriptures are a perfect example, they rip these words from the text as they do in other scriptures about our calling, called, chosen foreknowledge, predestined, or anything else to do with sound doctrines of Christ who inspired all the scriptures. And when someone tells them the truth, they do stop up their ears calling it evil. How about it, do you think Christ comes to make peace with those of the world, in your own household! No way, a sword means there will be a battle and a war, hatred and division as the one is set upon the other by the word of the Lord. And this is not passive, it is active, what fellowship does light have with darkness, or demons with those of God's kingdom. there is nothing but antagonism ahead even inside the family.

People who call the darkness light and the light darkness, woe to them.

Isaiah 5
20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!

sdowney, my children are not my enemies!!! Why do you think they are against me? Your doctrine has given you a warped view of life. You still did not answer my question -

Do you hate your mother, father, wife, and children?
 
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sdowney717

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sdowney, my children are not my enemies!!! Why do you think they are against me? Your doctrine has given you a warped view of life. You still did not answer my question -

Do you hate your mother, father, wife, and children?

Your not spiritually minded are you. Take it up with Christ at the judgement. It is His words you do not like.
 
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EmSw

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Your not spiritually minded are you. Take it up with Christ at the judgement. It is His words you do not like.

It seems some just can't keep from criticizing others; I've seen it over and over.

And again, do you hate your mother, father, wife, and children? Do you live by your beliefs?
 
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ToBeLoved

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Your not spiritually minded are you. Take it up with Christ at the judgement. It is His words you do not like.
Why do you not think she is spiritually minded? I think that she has shown that she is spiritually minded in her responses.
 
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ToBeLoved

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It is known as reprobation.
John Bunyan who wrote Pilgrim's Progress, also wrote Reprobation asserted.
And it is a good read to understand what this is.
http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/bunyan/reprobation/toc.htm
You shouldn't say anyone cannot be saved until their dead. That's the fact. You should be bringing people to Christ, but ahhh. Calvin. Tsk. Tsk

Did Jesus say to priest the gospel? That's what you should be doing. You know nothing of who will become saved in their lifetime. It is sickening that this is how you speak of salvation. Talking about people going to hell. Maybe that should make you think about how much you ARE# NOT sharing the gospel, if you have all these people pegged for hell. GET BUSY BROTHER
 
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Aldebaran

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sdowney, my children are not my enemies!!! Why do you think they are against me? Your doctrine has given you a warped view of life. You still did not answer my question -

Do you hate your mother, father, wife, and children?

I think the problem is that you may be starting to believe this Calvanistic rhetoric. I think you're feeling the effects of that, and I understand it because I started believing it myself long ago, and it led me to despair.
 
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Job8

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It is known as reprobation.
Yes, this is what Bunyan says, and while it is Calvinistic, it is NOT biblical:

"Reprobation is a simple leaving of the creature out of the bounds of God's election".

1. This assumes that God elects some to Heaven, which is false.

2. It dodges the corollary that if God elects some to Heaven, then He automatically elects others to Hell. Which would also be false.

So essentially we are dealing with false doctrine. With all due respect to Bunyan, Scripture is our final and sole authority.
 
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jimmyjimmy

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In the bible, "hate" refers to valuing one thing over another.

Try making sense of that view in light of these texts:

The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. (Psalm 5:5)

There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them. Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more; all their princes are rebels. (Hosea 9:15)
 
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sdowney717

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Christ is the WORD of God made flesh, come in the flesh.
Scripture is the Word of God as well, Scripture is God breathed words, so both scripture and Christ are linked together.
Christ also said scripture cannot be broken.
When you disagree with sound doctrines in scripture, your disagreeing the sound doctrines of Christ.
Some people say they departed from 'Calvinism' as it was too depressing. What? Emotions ruling over the soul? They do not like what they are hearing, so they go and find teachers according to their own liking. So actually they depart from scripture which means they depart from Christ to follow a false Christ of demonic teaching and their own evil imaginations. That fulfils the scriptures as well as shown here. Whether this means they depart the faith, I am not their judge. But there will be trouble for all who do evil, who bear bad fruit, speaking against the Holy Spirit which also includes speaking against scripture. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit, for a tree is known by it's fruit.
Christ warns that there will be false Christ's come who will deceive many people. Today there are many little antichrists running to and fro proclaiming their various strange doctrines. Would God be the author of such confusion in His church?
Did Christ not say the Holy Spirit, when He comes would guide His people into all truth? The little flock, Christ tells them not to worry for they will inherit the kingdom, and few there are that find eternal life.

2 Timothy 4New King James Version (NKJV)
Preach the Word
4 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

God said he loved Jacob and hated Esau. The greek word hate, means to despise, God despised Esau and destroyed Esau whose descendents were the Edomites with a destruction described as forever.

Malachi 1:4
Even though Edom has said, “We have been impoverished, But we will return and build the desolate places,” Thus says the Lord of hosts: “They may build, but I will throw down; They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness, And the people against whom the Lord will have indignation forever.

Neither could Esau find repentance granted from the Lord though he sought it with tears.
Hebrews 12, a 'profane person' is a godless person.

16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

In scripture, there is only the blessing and the curse.
Not inheriting the blessing means Esau was not a saved person God despised Esau and would not grant to Esau repentance.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Some people say they departed from 'Calvinism' as it was too depressing. What? Emotions ruling over the soul? They do not like what they are hearing, so they go and find teachers according to their own liking.
I've never heard anyone say they departed Calvinism because it's too depressing. I bet there were other reasons too.
 
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Marvin Knox

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I've never heard anyone say they departed Calvinism because it's too depressing. I bet there were other reasons too.
There are.

But they don't call Presbyterians "God's frozen- chosen" for no good reason.
 
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Aldebaran

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Try making sense of that view in light of these texts:

The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. (Psalm 5:5)

There are six things that the LORD hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

Every evil of theirs is in Gilgal; there I began to hate them. Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of my house. I will love them no more; all their princes are rebels. (Hosea 9:15)

Since the bible (at least the OT) was written in Hebrew, we need to understand that a word translated from Hebrew to English can be rather ambiguous. I tried doing the research on how many Hebrew words there are that we might translate as "hate", but I'm not familiar enough with it. But one thing I've heard is that there are 9 different words that we simply translate into "love" in the bible. They all have specific meanings, such as eros (sexual, or erotic love), phileo (brotherly love), agape (Godly love), among others. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple hebrew words that we translate into "hate".
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Since the bible (at least the OT) was written in Hebrew, we need to understand that a word translated from Hebrew to English can be rather ambiguous. I tried doing the research on how many Hebrew words there are that we might translate as "hate", but I'm not familiar enough with it. But one thing I've heard is that there are 9 different words that we simply translate into "love" in the bible. They all have specific meanings, such as eros (sexual, or erotic love), phileo (brotherly love), agape (Godly love), among others. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple hebrew words that we translate into "hate".

It's as simple as looking at the context.
 
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It's as simple as looking at the context.

Usually, but not always. People often have a problem with when God said, "I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated".
 
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jimmyjimmy

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Usually, but not always. People often have a problem with when God said, "I loved Jacob, but Esau I hated".

All kinds of people have problems with God's words. That's nothing new. I provide a few examples of God's hatred of sin and sinner, and "preference" could not be substituted for hate in any of the examples.

"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:14)
 
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ToBeLoved

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Since the bible (at least the OT) was written in Hebrew, we need to understand that a word translated from Hebrew to English can be rather ambiguous. I tried doing the research on how many Hebrew words there are that we might translate as "hate", but I'm not familiar enough with it. But one thing I've heard is that there are 9 different words that we simply translate into "love" in the bible. They all have specific meanings, such as eros (sexual, or erotic love), phileo (brotherly love), agape (Godly love), among others. So I wouldn't be surprised if there were multiple hebrew words that we translate into "hate".
Yes. Hebrew to English Biblehub.com
 
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