Bulgarian Orthodox Church withdraws from Pan-Orthodox Council in Crete

[ArmyMatt]

Maybe it best to follow my priest advice, and pray for a resolution. Concerning ourselves with politics, can turn us cynical toward Church heirarchs.

yup

 

[~Anastasia~]

I've heard for years how Serbs are clannish, hate converts, like everything to stay in Slavonic, and generally are grumps....

Yet my parish is
Super friendly to converts
Is now majority converts
Is in English
Not grumpy at all
Not clannish....non-Serbs cook Serb dishes and go Serb dances! Lol

You know, I'd like to visit your parish if I ever got waaayyyy up and over there.

 

[buzuxi02]

It's quite simple don't depart from the Fathers. But when Antiochans find problem with the marriage document because it says marriage is a sacrament of those members of the same church, since Antiochans assert it's a sacrament of whatever church the groom attends (as long as your an Arab Monophysitism male your church will do). Well that is wrong and teaching cacodoxy.
When Pat. Bartholomew concelebrates with heterodox, says the church recognises ecclesial realities outside the one Church, and promotes neo-eastern papalism then he is a heretic and should be deposed. We have these texts with signatures, condemning themselves, no different than the examination of Honorius letters.

 

[All4Christ]

It's quite simple don't depart from the Fathers. But when Antiochans find problem with the marriage document because it says marriage is a sacrament of those members of the same church, since Antiochans assert it's a sacrament of whatever church the groom attends (as long as your an Arab Monophysitism male your church will do). Well that is wrong and teaching cacodoxy.
When Pat. Bartholomew concelebrates with heterodox, says the church recognises ecclesial realities outside the one Church, and promotes neo-eastern papalism then he is a heretic and should be deposed. We have these texts with signatures, condemning themselves, no different than the examination of Honorius letters.

They concelebrate with non-Orthodox? Neo-Eastern papalism? I must be out of the loop with this.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Don't feel alone!

They concelebrate with non-Orthodox? Neo-Eastern papalism? I must be out of the loop with this.

 

[tapi]

I believe almost everyone is out of the loop with this They just don't call it out, unlike some do with some (ex)-members. This forum has turned out to be a joke -.-

 

[gzt]

They concelebrate with non-Orthodox? Neo-Eastern papalism? I must be out of the loop with this.

Note my previous comment on defamatory statements.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I hope WE at least get back to some semblance of normalcy after this has passed ...

 

[All4Christ]

I mentioned it to my husband and he said he wasn't very worried about it. He said we will just do what we always do - follow the teachings the Church has always taught. It's concerning to me to hear all of this, but I am thankful we have the Church and a continuous tradition and theology from the beginning of the Church.

 

[buzuxi02]

The Antiochans have an agreement in place with the Syriac. They allow each other to use their churches, for example the Antiochans parish in Abu Dhabi doubles as a Syriac OO church. In the middle east proselytizing between the two churches is forbidden and when intermarriage occurs, the marriage is under the man's church.

 

[All4Christ]

The Antiochans have an agreement in place with the Syriac. They allow each other to use their churches, for example the Antiochans parish in Abu Dhabi doubles as a Syriac OO church. In the middle east proselytizing between the two churches is forbidden and when intermarriage occurs, the marriage is under the man's church.

Huh. I never heard about that before. Is the marriage practice limited to the Middle East?

 

[buzuxi02]

Huh. I never heard about that before. Is the marriage practice limited to the Middle East?

I hope so. It's been in effect since 1991. I'll post it up later. Now is the time for the laity to speak up. And all those that belong to mission churches, read these documents and ask yourselves whether this hurts or helps in making converts. In fact taking these statements to their logical conclusions, why even bother???

 

[anna ~ grace]

As a churchless Christian with quite a bit of theological respect for the EOC and OOC... there are going to be petty, shallow, spiritually disinterested folks in each community one may visit. I've met Lutherans who truly seemed to love Christ with a simple, child-like, joyful love, and Greek Orthodox who are almost unbelievably snobby, racist, vain, and chilly.

My thing is... you guys have this awesome ecclesial history, beautiful icons, and a God and Saviour who have never changed. Bishops, Popes, and Christian leaders can fall into error, but God's Son has never changed. He remains the same. Just follow Him, keep His words, pray without ceasing, love the downcast, be faithful. Don't worry too much about what others are doing. Each soul has his or her own responsibility and the best thing you can do is pray for those who seem clueless.

 

[buzuxi02]

Huh. I never heard about that before. Is the marriage practice limited to the Middle East?

The most problematic decrees are # 3, 6, 9, 11.
Statement on the Relations between the Eastern and the Syrian Orthodox Church - Nov 1991

On marriages:
6. If bishops of the two Churches participate at a holy baptism or funeral service, the one belonging to the Church of the baptized or deceased will preside. In case of a holy matrimony service, the bishop of the bridegroom's Church will preside
8. What applies to bishops equally applies to the priests of both Churches.

 

[All4Christ]

Hm. I never heard of one of the church's independently deciding to do something like that. Are there serious plans in place for the Eastern Orthodox Church and Syrian Orthodox Church to come into communion with eachother? Have the differences been worked out? I would love to see us reunited, though I would think it should be done in something like a universal Orthodox council, not on a patriarchal level.

 

[Sophia89]

I've seen an article on this topic recently. It was quite interesting.
Here is the link: http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/...il-will-it-split-the-orthodox-world-or-unite/

The Georgian Orthodox Church have decided not to participate at the Council in June since then. As I've read, Russian and Greek Churches are also unlikely to attend.

Indeed, did members of the Local Synods have enough time to read the documents and to reach consensus over them?
It was only patriarchs who agreed in January... They aren't infallible "as the Pope" finally! They've discussed the documents with their Synods by now. It might have been difficult in January to know how many time this work would require exactly.

Moreover, as I know, Ecumenical Patriarch didn't want any discussions at the Council itself... That's why I share Bulgarian Metropolitan Gabriel's concerns: there is no guarantee that all proposed changes would be allowed even to discuss in Crete.

All these months since January Holy Synods of all Autocephalous Churches have been preparing their propositions. But it seems like they haven't had enough time to discus the wording of these propositions with others at the preparatory meetings.

In the same time, I believe that all these disagreements may be solved by the fair talks. There is no issues that couldn't be negotiated. Merely some extra meeting is needed. In such a way the Council will be as fruitful as it should be. And nobody will question its status and mandatory nature of its decisions. That's how I see things.

 

[Svitlana]

Georgia pulled out. Who's next?

Wouldn't it be better to convene all Churches to secure the mandatory status of the Holy and Great Council's decisions?
Why not to give them more time to communicate with each other in preconciliar commissions in order to prepare common ground for the final discussion in Crete (whether the discussion is really planned)... Nobody will doubt the Council results! Otherwise one would argue that the Council is "fake", "farce" and doesn't oblige them to anything.

I can't imagine a reason why any Church may be interested in this result. Any of them just wants its own opinion to be considered in the Council's decisions, and I don't believe that the consensus is unreachable! It's merely a matter of time and paperwork!

 

[~Anastasia~]

I've seen an article on this topic recently. It was quite interesting.
Here is the link: http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/...il-will-it-split-the-orthodox-world-or-unite/

The Georgian Orthodox Church have decided not to participate at the Council in June since then. As I've read, Russian and Greek Churches are also unlikely to attend.

Indeed, did members of the Local Synods have enough time to read the documents and to reach consensus over them?
It was only patriarchs who agreed in January... They aren't infallible "as the Pope" finally! They've discussed the documents with their Synods by now. It might have been difficult in January to know how many time this work would require exactly.

Moreover, as I know, Ecumenical Patriarch didn't want any discussions at the Council itself... That's why I share Bulgarian Metropolitan Gabriel's concerns: there is no guarantee that all proposed changes would be allowed even to discuss in Crete.

All these months since January Holy Synods of all Autocephalous Churches have been preparing their propositions. But it seems like they haven't had enough time to discus the wording of these propositions with others at the preparatory meetings.

In the same time, I believe that all these disagreements may be solved by the fair talks. There is no issues that couldn't be negotiated. Merely some extra meeting is needed. In such a way the Council will be as fruitful as it should be. And nobody will question its status and mandatory nature of its decisions. That's how I see things.

Hello, and welcome to CF, and welcome to TAW as well. We are always glad to meet new Orthodox brothers and sisters.

I don't have a great deal to say about the Council. Though the idea of there potentially being no discussion at the meeting itself makes me wonder why not. It almost seems what would be the point? I also can't help but think that with today's technology, we have even more tools available to advance discussion.

I simply pray that God will direct the Church.

I did want to welcome you to CF and to TAW.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Georgia pulled out. Who's next?

Wouldn't it be better to convene all Churches to secure the mandatory status of the Holy and Great Council's decisions?
Why not to give them more time to communicate with each other in preconciliar commissions in order to prepare common ground for the final discussion in Crete (whether the discussion is really planned)... Nobody will doubt the Council results! Otherwise one would argue that the Council is "fake", "farce" and doesn't oblige them to anything.

I can't imagine a reason why any Church may be interested in this result. Any of them just wants its own opinion to be considered in the Council's decisions, and I don't believe that the consensus is unreachable! It's merely a matter of time and paperwork!

Two new members in a row? That's a treat.

Welcome to CF and welcome to TAW!

Hopefully, with the ability to communicate we have today, this can all eventually come about according to God's will in His timing. We've survived this many centuries.

Again, I wanted to welcome you to CF and to TAW. We are glad you joined us, and I pray you are blessed by being here.

 

[buzuxi02]

Sophia & Svitlana welcome.

Bulgaria, Georgia and Antioch have pulled out. There was opening for Antioch if the EP could get the JP to hand over the Qatar church. But it's been verified in a Greek news site that Antioch has cancelled their flights and hotel reservations.

Serbia will probably not show up its hard to tell what they were getting at. Looks to me if this synod is not demoted to a consultation or just part 1 of an ongoing council , the Serbs will skip. Russia will decide tomorrow whether or not to cancel.