baptism necessary to be saved???

[Blindfaith]

Good morning everyone!

I'm going to get my moderating duties out of the way first: This is not a debate forum. It is strictly for staff and believers to answer the questions of non-believers and new Christians. If someone wants to debate, there are plenty of other forums around here. Thanks!!

Now, I'll tell you my story. I'm not going to tell you what is right or wrong, because opinions differ here. Personally, I believe in getting baptized, but it took me a few years. I also personally believe there is scriptural support of baptism, but again, there are those who don't buy it.

Baptism is an awesome experience between you and God, and for others to witness. I was baptized 2 years ago, and its an experience I will never forget. It was at an evening church service, and I was nervous as well as excited because I had to answer a couple of questions, and publically reaffirm my faith (don't pick that statement apart people). But when I was immersed, and came back up, I've never felt such a natural high before. No amount of drugs could ever have made me feel like that! I felt closer to God at that moment than I ever did before or since. It was a very personal thing for me. I was committing myself to Jesus, more fully than I did when I first said my homemade version of the Sinners Prayer.

Please don't let the legalism of the arguments of for or against baptism take the "magic" out of the entire experience. Jesus doesn't want us to get so involved in the arguments that we lose the intimacy of it.

God Bless.

 

[Galadriel]

I do think it is a good thing to do, but baptism does not save you. Only accepting Jesus' gift and God's gift of salvation saves you. Baptism is symbolic of this, but it is not the act that saves you. The symbolism doesn't save you.

 

[Blindfaith]

I hope that my post didn't come across that I believe that baptism saves you. It most certainly does not. But, it's an incredible experience to have.

Instead of thinking it has to be either right or wrong, I see it as another added benefit to belonging to my Jesus. Another way to commit myself to Him.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

The Bible mentions that faith saves. (Rom 4:5)
who give the Faith .......Gal 5:22-23 HS

The Bible mentions that repentance saves. (Acts 2:38)
in VS 37 HS was working in their minds so they would change their minds
Acts is a transitional book on the church and it changes several times going thru this book Grab a strongs and look up baptism and look up at all examples of baptism .....the order of it

The Bible mentions that baptism saves. (Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16)

spirit baptism no water if ye believe not you be ****





The Bible mentions that grace saves. (Eph. 2:8)

Defintion of Grace is some we do not deserve
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST



The Bible mentions that confession saves. (Acts 22:16)

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He Saved us. by the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

The Bible mentions that Christ's blood saves.(countless)
Yes with out His Death our Father would not be satisfied therefore we could not go to heaven...........Grace

The Bible mentions that belief saves. Mark 16:16, Act 10:43

Titus 3:5 is Spirit baptism goes both of these

 

[Theresa]

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

-notice, nowhere does it say faith ALONE. The only place in the entire Bible where it says faith alone is here:

James 2
24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

-it's so difficult to understand how people can take one verse and ignore another and believe something against another. Both verses are true for if one was right and the other wrong, then the Bible would be fallible. So we are saved by grace through faith and works. Not by dead faith says James, and not by dead works says Paul.

-Baptism alone won't save you, nor will faith alone no matter how many verses one wants to ignore.


1 Peter 3
21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ

[note: not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but the removal of dirt from the soul when one is cleansed and immersed in the Holy Spirit through baptism which cleanses the soul completely and forgives even for Original Sin]


Acts 2

37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brethren, what shall we do?"
38 Peter said to them, " Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22
16 'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'


-I'm sorry, I don't mean to debate, but others were and I just wanted everybody to be clear on the pertinent verses.

 

[aggie03]

I have proposed a formal debate on this topic, and another person is needed for the negative team. If anyone here would be interested in being part of this, I wouls suggest that you go check it out in the formal debates section !

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

theresa define baptism please

with verses please you will be amazed

 

[aggie03]

I thought she did a fairly decent job of presenting verses already. As for baptism, let's just look at the greek word baptizmo - to immerse or submerge. In the examples she gave it was done with water.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

if you are submerging someone into water hold them down to make sure they are really in ...............please do not do this you will kill them



sense everyone is pulling them out of water are you really in ? who is really in the water can a person breath it ........of course not



who puts one INTO CHRIST ......titus 3:5

what is being saved in intial salavation

1cor 5:3 ....absent in the body but present in the spirit...... 5 .....that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord


Last part saved
1peter 1:9 end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls
1Thes 5:23

1peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through santification of the Spirit, unto Obience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten[new birth] us again unto a lively hope by the resurection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved[guarded] in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept[guarded] by the power of God through faith unto salvationready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, through now a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold[many] temptations: 7 That the trail of your faith being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 whom having not seen, ye love; in whom , though now ye see him not, yetbelieving, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Recieving the end of your faith, even tha salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:...........ect

God did every thing......

question if we are unrighteous by are selfs [romans 3:10] how do we get near to are righteous God

if you say by water how do you wash something that can't be seen ....aka Human spirit

I believe in Baptism of the Spirit ...being put INTO CHRIST and we can all baptise with water as a sign but once IN CHRIST no one can take me out for He can not deny Hisself when He lives inside of us unlike water everyone is taken out

IN THE HEAVENLYS with Christ

 

[aggie03]

I really have no idea what point you're trying to make ... would mind please going over this again - point by point - slowly - so that those of us who don't see eye to eye with you can catch up. I would really appreciate that.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

if you are submerging someone into water hold them down to make sure they are really in ...............please do not do this you will kill them



sense everyone is pulling them out of water are you really in ? who is really in the water can a person breath it ........of course not



who puts one INTO CHRIST ......titus 3:5

what is being saved in intial salavation

1cor 5:3 ....absent in the body but present in the spirit...... 5 .....that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord


Last part saved
1peter 1:9 end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls
1Thes 5:23

Baptism by water being able to save you is silly ....point is what part is saved with intial savation since HUMANS have three parts ....Spirit, Soul, and Body ......Answer at InTIAL salvation is the Spirit but who washed [Titius 3:5] the spirit and when does the body and soul get saved according to 1 thes 5:23 is when the coming of the Lord happens aka rapture

1peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through santification of the Spirit, unto Obience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to His abundant mercy hath begotten[new birth] us again unto a lively hope by the resurection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved[guarded] in heaven for you, 5 Who are kept[guarded] by the power of God through faith unto salvationready to be revealed in the last time. 6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, through now a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold[many] temptations: 7 That the trail of your faith being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 8 whom having not seen, ye love; in whom , though now ye see him not, yetbelieving, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 9 Recieving the end of your faith, even tha salvation of your souls. 10 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:...........ect

God did every thing......

question if we are unrighteous by are selfs [romans 3:10] how do we get near to are righteous God

if you say by water how do you wash something that can't be seen ....aka Human spirit

I believe in Baptism of the Spirit ...being put INTO CHRIST and we can all baptise with water as a sign but once IN CHRIST no one can take me out for He can not deny Hisself when He lives inside of us unlike water everyone is taken out

IN THE HEAVENLYS with Christ

1peter 1:2 God the Father picks us
1peter 1:2 santification of the Spirit
1peter 1:2 the Sons blood[work] on the cross

no work by HUMANS

1peter 1:3 father gave us opportunity of a new birth
1peter 1:3 Son gives us hope since he resurrected from dead

no hope or work there by Humans

1 peter 1:4 inheritance incorruptable and undefiled and guarded for us

once again People in Christ are given everything to be able to resided with God and we do nothing ....nothing....nothing to get there thus it is a work of humans according to Eph 2:8-9 John 6:29 its God's work

all of it even looking for God according to 1cor 2:10 ,Romans 3:10-11

 

[Theresa]

I have recently been in a debate in IDD called "born again." I think my answers there would answer yours.

I just had an interesting thought, however.

I was outside thinking and it occured to me that I believe that a child is a human being, body and soul, at conception. I have to to fight abortion (well I believe it anyways, not just to fight abortion), but my point is, God promises human life at conception. It's guaranteed.

So divine life is promised at baptism. It's guaranteed.

I think it's interesting to contrast the two.



http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=852170#post852170

 

[Arc]

question if we are unrighteous by are selfs [romans 3:10] how do we get near to are righteous God

We don't "get near" God gathers unto Himself all those who believe.

God did every thing......

If God did everything then we don't need to do anything, right? It's done. Then what do you make of this:

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Matt 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

So when you say "God did everything" but Jesus says we will be condemned by our actions and we will be praised by our actions. Doing nothing does not save you, nor does doing righteous work. Jesus saves. But, our work is both commanded and expected! Faith cannot be seperated from works, period! If we "do nothing" then our result is clear from Matt 25.

James 2:26; For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

If you believe we are saved by Grace through Faith, and Faith without Works is Dead, then it would seem that Works are pretty important.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

We don't "get near" God gathers unto Himself all those who believe.



If God did everything then we don't need to do anything, right? It's done. Then what do you make of this:

Matt 7:13; "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Matt 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
32 "All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats;
33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.
34 "Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38 'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39 'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40 "The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
44 "Then they themselves also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
45 "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

So when you say "God did everything" but Jesus says we will be condemned by our actions and we will be praised by our actions. Doing nothing does not save you, nor does doing righteous work. Jesus saves. But, our work is both commanded and expected! Faith cannot be seperated from works, period! If we "do nothing" then our result is clear from Matt 25.

James 2:26; For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

If you believe we are saved by Grace through Faith, and Faith without Works is Dead, then it would seem that Works are pretty important.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justified the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. 6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift from God:

...................who ever worked for a gift....................

Eph. 2:9Not of works, lest any man should boast

..............does the bible disagree I do not think so....................

did they work to get saved to believed OR did they just obey their master by doing eph 2:10

does a dog bark because he is a dog or because he is a cat

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

matt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I [Jesus] profess unto them, I never knew you:depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


Hope that isn't you

may Jesus have mercy for all Unbelievers

Oh wait a min that was the cross where all sins are paid for with the perfect sacrifice

He says just believe that he diedfor are sins, arose on the third day and is seated in the flesh on the right hand of the Father

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized . ..............................

do not see any water

 

[Garbru]

I have to say that you should get baptized again. For one when you were 9 and were baptized was it really your own choice to do so? probably not. You were most likely encouraged to do so by your peers and most likely didn't fully understand why you were doing it or didn't fully understand the gospel or the significance of baptism.

Jesus himself was baptized! He was baptized in water of his own choice as a man to fulfill what is right before the Father.

Mat 3:14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?"
Mat 3:15 But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he *permitted Him.
Mat 3:16 After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,

Jesus did everything he did in his ministry to demonstrate what is right before the Lord. It says John tried to prevent him, but Jesus said that it is right to do. Then after he rose out of the water the spirit of God descended upon him. He made a choice to do what is right and the Holy spirit came upon him. Jesus was baptized right when he first began his ministry.

Also take a look at the book of acts. There are examples of people coming to the Lord. In every example the person heard the word, believed and then was baptized and added to the Lords Church. These people did so out of their own free will, a conscious decision they made once they decided they believed in Jesus is the Son Of God.

Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
Act 8:36 As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch *said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
Act 8:37 [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
Act 8:38 And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.

When you were 9 you most likely didn't fully understand who Jesus is or why you were being baptized. You might have been told but at that age you probably didn't fully understand the significance of it all and probably didn't fully understand the gospel, and it probably wasnt fully your choice to do so.

Act 16:31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
Act 16:32 And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.
Act 16:33 And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
Act 16:34 And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with his whole household.

There again they believed and then were baptized.
Baptism is an outward showing of our faith in Jesus and symbolic of washing away the old self and rising up into a new life in Christ.

Mar 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
Mar 16:16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

There baptism is mentioned to be a necessary ingredient to being saved.

1Pe 3:21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

If we truly want to live our life for the Lord then our goal should be to do everything we can to please him and show that we care about fulfilling everything he asks of us to the best of our ability.

Everything we do the Lord knows, I'm sure the Lord would be happy to see you make the effort and the choice as a freethinking conscious adult to be baptized in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy spirit.

Rev 2:19 'I know your deeds, and your love and faith and service and perseverance, and that your deeds of late are greater than at first.

 

[suzie]

I am sure this has been mentioned before, I apoligize. I was wondering, and this is bugging me, is it absolutely necessary to be baptized to be saved? Will you go to hell if you are not baptized?? See, I was baptized at about 9, but I got saved later (about 17) so I have been baptized and saved, just in like reverse order! So then, am I not saved and going to hell due to this?

Baptism has nothing to do with salvation. Baptism is commanded as a witness to salvation. It is an outward sign of an inner conversion. It is symbolic. I was baptized as a ritual in my infancy. I was baptized as an adult several years after I was saved. I did it at this time to identify myself with this particular church of believers. If I would have died prior to being saved (at age 30), I would have gone to hell even though I was baptized....If I would have died after being saved but prior to experiencing "believers baptism" I would have gone to heaven for I was sealed by the Holy Spirit to eternal life......If you are saved, you are part of our family of Christ and kingdom bound!!

 

[Garbru]

We should be baptized. Baptism was instituted in the word of God for a reason. We can argue that maybe we dont need it, that maybe it is not neccesary but if we Love the Lord and are trying to do what it says in the Bible to do to please the Lord then we should be baptized. The example of Jesus being baptized in water himself is there as an example. The examples in the book of acts of people who were baptized after accepting Jesus are there for a reason. Its a good thing to do. I myslef want to do everything I can to please the Lord so I follow the examples of the Bible. If we just start decideing that this and that is not important then we are subtracting from the word and or overlooking what the Bible teaches. Salvation might start with accepting Jesus but it dosnt end there. We are commanded to follow the words of the Lord and it says not to leave anything undone. God knows everything we do and dont do and we will be judged accordingly. God wants to know where are heart is at and if we give our heart to the Lord then choosing to be baptized as the word of God shows us is something we would be willing to do.

 

[aggie03]

Baptism has nothing to do with salvation. Baptism is commanded as a witness to salvation. It is an outward sign of an inner conversion. It is symbolic. I was baptized as a ritual in my infancy. I was baptized as an adult several years after I was saved. I did it at this time to identify myself with this particular church of believers. If I would have died prior to being saved (at age 30), I would have gone to hell even though I was baptized....If I would have died after being saved but prior to experiencing "believers baptism" I would have gone to heaven for I was sealed by the Holy Spirit to eternal life......If you are saved, you are part of our family of Christ and kingdom bound!!

I was just wondering where your support from the Bible was for the statements that you have made. I'm not trying to be rude, but in a discussion like this, I think that it is necessary to post at least some scripture references to what you believe so that others might study and learn. That is after all the point of even getting on here .

I think an important verse that needs to be considered is Psalm 119:160 in that the sum or totality of God's word is truth. If we are not considering everything that God has said in light of everything else, then we are not considering the Truth.

Mark 16:16 ASV

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.

Let's briefly take this sentence apart and look at what it says. The sentence says "He shall be saved". This is the point and final meaning of all these words, that someone will be saved. So now our question is who will be saved? Is it the person who only believes? NO, for the sentence says believes AND is baptized. These two things together are both necessary for salvation and can be written as a simple mathematical equation:

Belief + Baptism = Salvation
Unbelief + Baptism = Condemnation
Belief does not equal Belief + Baptism and can therefore not = Salvation
Baptism does not equal Belief + Baptism and can therefore not = Salvation

Thise verse, words of Christ, plainly lays it all on the table: belief and baptism, both with each other, are necessary for our salvation. Any alteration of the formula results in condemnation.