• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

baptism necessary to be saved???

Status
Not open for further replies.
gqaggie04 said:
The thief on the cross was saved prior to Jesus dying. He was still under the old law, and therefore, baptism in the name of Christ would not have applied to him.

[/COLOR] KJV


It is call spirit baptism happen


James 2:18 Yea if a man say [ who really cares]

romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justified the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

Romans 6:3-4 when did you die in Christ we didn't but God count it true in this verse

is English version of .......Baptism= put into
 
Upvote 0
A Brethren IN CHRIST said:
It is call spirit baptism happen


James 2:18 Yea if a man say [ who really cares]

romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justified the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

Romans 6:3-4 when did you die in Christ we didn't but God count it true in this verse

is English version of .......Baptism= put into

I don't understand what you are saying in this post.
Are you saying that the thief on the cross underwent the baptism of the Holy Spirit? The baptism of the Holy Spirit is only recorded on two occasions: the apostles in Acts 2 and on Cornelius and his household in Acts 10. After this baptism the involved parties were immediately able to perform miracles, specifically, speaking in tongues. The incident with the thief on the cross does not resemble either of those examples.

I agree with Romans 4:5, but as I mentioned in an earlier post you cannot take this scripture as the only authority on salvation. There are many other verses that must be taken into consideration. I go back to my example earlier: I could say that you need wood to build a house, and I think most would agree. However, there are other things you need as well. This fact does not make my original statement any less true, but you would have to see what else I said on the subject.

The Bible mentions that faith saves. (Rom 4:5)
The Bible mentions that repentance saves. (Acts 2:38)
The Bible mentions that baptism saves. (Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16)
The Bible mentions that grace saves. (Eph. 2:8)
The Bible mentions that confession saves. (Acts 22:16)
The Bible mentions that Christ's blood saves.(countless)
The Bible mentions that belief saves. (Mark 16:16, Acts 10:43)

How can anyone take just one of these without taking all the others as well?
 
Upvote 0
It is the order of one being saved

example Gen 15 :6 And Abram believed the Lord and He counted it to him for righteousness

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Issac his son upon the alter.......read thru 26
.....remember this is for man to see not God

Gen 22 9-10 is where Abram worked some 30 year after belief

Hebrews 11:8-9 when Abram had faith
 
Upvote 0
"A Brethren IN CHRIST,"

I think you are not fully looking at the context in James 2. The works there are not just for men to see. When James begins the context by bringing up the hypothetical man who states that he has faith, he is showing that you cannot have a true faith without also having works that are included with that faith. He says nothing about Abraham's justification being before man. I think that we can conclude that both Abraham's faith and his works resulted in God justifying him.

Abraham did not offer up Isaac in front of a large crowd; it was in front of God alone. It is possible that no one but Abraham, Sarah, and Isaac even knew about the incident until it was revealed later to Moses by the Holy Spirit.

Also, could you please address my list of actions and concepts that the Bible says save us? How can anyone pick and choose only one or two of those to practice for salvation and neglect the others?

Here is the list again:

The Bible mentions that faith saves. (Rom 4:5)
The Bible mentions that repentance saves. (Acts 2:38)
The Bible mentions that baptism saves. (Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16)
The Bible mentions that grace saves. (Eph. 2:8)
The Bible mentions that confession saves. (Acts 22:16)
The Bible mentions that Christ's blood saves.(countless)
The Bible mentions that belief saves. (Mark 16:16, Acts 10:43)
 
Upvote 0

Theresa

With Reason
Nov 27, 2002
7,866
198
47
✟31,789.00
Faith
Catholic
How do you deal with LUKE 23:43 where does the Baptizism happen ?????????

-baptism is the normal and usual mode of the NT to receive sanctifying grace. The Apostles gave a certain charism of the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands.

Those are the normal means, however, we are bound by the sacraments, God is not.

God can act outside of these normal means, hence, he can give sanctifying grace to whom he pleases.
 
Upvote 0

adelpit346

Active Member
Mar 25, 2002
127
0
✟267.00
WE all who believe JEsus is The Son of God, died and raised in the flesh for our sins by the Same, and is one of three:FAther, Son and Holy Ghost:are also ONE, then as we do on this earth baptise in water to prepare the temple to receive The Holy Ghost, the baptism we earnestly seek is by The Holy Ghost. And HE takes you into THIRD HEAVEN to baptise you in the spirit in the river that flows from the Throne of The LORD God JESUS Christ of Nazareth.
NOW i can say i have had this done to my own flesh and spirit so that by that strange thing i can add to the creed men use to say to themselves i am saved, these three things:JEsus is The Lord, i am nothing0 and i agree with Paul 100%.
So by this i have seperated myself from the wolves in sheep's clothing. amen
Thankyou Jesus for Paul.
i am nothing0
Jesus is The LORD1Praise The Lord1The Lord JEsus. amen
 
Upvote 0
The Bible mentions that faith saves. (Rom 4:5)
who give the Faith .......Gal 5:22-23 HS

The Bible mentions that repentance saves. (Acts 2:38)
in VS 37 HS was working in their minds so they would change their minds
Acts is a transitional book on the church and it changes several times going thru this book Grab a strongs and look up baptism and look up at all examples of baptism .....the order of it

The Bible mentions that baptism saves. (Mark 16:16, Acts 22:16)

spirit baptism no water if ye believe not you be ****





The Bible mentions that grace saves. (Eph. 2:8)

Defintion of Grace is some we do not deserve
Eph 2:9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST



The Bible mentions that confession saves. (Acts 22:16)

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He Saved us. by the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost.

The Bible mentions that Christ's blood saves.(countless)
Yes with out His Death our Father would not be satisfied therefore we could not go to heaven...........Grace

The Bible mentions that belief saves. Mark 16:16, Act 10:43

Titus 3:5 is Spirit baptism goes both of these
 
Upvote 0

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟27,029.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
GREG said:
i am lost here.........lol

Tell me about it. I've been having a hard time trying to figure out what is meant by Spirit baptism. I think that I've got it figured out.


"A Brethren" - You keep posting Titus 3:5 as a justification for dismissing everything as a kind of Spirit baptism. While I will agree with you that there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit, I do not believe that is what this particular passage talks about.

gqaggie04 has already posted some things that I agree with happened in the only 2 instances that we are given in the New Testament where baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs. Acts 2 and Acts 10. In both of these cases there was a power that came and immediately the people involved had spiritual gifts which they could use - in particular the use of tongues.

If what you have been contending throughout this thread is true, then the moment that a person believes baptism of the Holy Spirit would occur. I know many people who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that He was crucified and ressurected, and that He ascended and now sits at the right hand of the Father - I'm sure you do too, but did any of the signs that occurwith baptism of the Holy Spirit occur when they believed? Where there suddenly tongues being spoken? Was there someone there to interpret? Did any of the other spiritual gifts mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12 appear? The answer is no because this was not baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Titus 3:5 ASV not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit

NOT BY WORKS - this is true because nothing we do can earn our salvation, but it does not mean that there are things that we must do in order to receive the grace of God, which IS what saves us.

WASHING OF REGENERATION - when we hear the word of God it is because of the things that the Holy Spirit has done - the only reason that we have the Bible is because of the Holy Spirit. washing of regeneration here refers to baptism that we are commanded to do for the remission of our sins. When we are baptized we are raised to a newness of life (Romans 6) - which is exactly what the word regeneration means here.

If you have a Strong's Concordance or a Vine's dictionary, look at what the words mean in Titus 3:5. I believe that rather than refute baptism, this verse actually supports it.
 
Upvote 0
1COR 51:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also I recieved, and where ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also recieved, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he arose again on the third day according to the scriptures

........amazing nothing about Baptism..........

matt 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandment of men

mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching doctines the commandment of men

Matt 7:21-23 Not everyone that saith unto me,Lord,Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is heaven. 22 Many will say to me un that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name?and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I believe of the need of spirit baptism were no one sees if I am saved or not and I have nothing ...nothing to do in my salvation it is all on God to do what he has said.

eph 2:8-9
Titus 3:5
roman 3:10-11
 
Upvote 0

Galadriel

Lady of Light
Jun 24, 2003
1,895
84
42
USA
✟27,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Oooo nelly!! :eek:

Well, I must concur that I am lost as well!! Ack!
Hmm, but what about all those people who have been baptized as infants, do they go to hell because their belief came later in their life??

See, I would also want to find the right church too, and I would feel silly asking to do it again, I am not sure what to do here. Would I be denied for having been baptized before belief, would God say, "you definately believed in me, but did it in the wrong order, so you are going to hell"?

Hmm, maybe I should just run out and get baptized quick just incase? Does it have to be infront of the church, or could I just talk to my pastor about it and have it be private and quick, or is publicity the whole point??

Oooo nelly!! :eek:
 
Upvote 0

Galadriel

Lady of Light
Jun 24, 2003
1,895
84
42
USA
✟27,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hmm, well, I have done some looking around at scripture.
Did any of Jesus' disciples get baptized? I didn't see any mention of them doing so, also the people that Jesus heals, he doesn't tell them to get baptized.

Is there any scripture that says that those who are saved after Christ's death have to be baptized? Is it something that comes into play after Christ's death?

I think now I am confused more than ever.
 
Upvote 0

aggie03

Veritas Vos Liberabit
Jun 13, 2002
3,031
92
Columbus, TX
Visit site
✟27,029.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Galadriel,

I'm so glad that you've gotten a chance to read up on some of the posting that been going on here. Every post that I've made so far has been in hope that YOU might be able to read them :clap: .

Let's start off with the first couple of questions that you've asked: "Would God deny you for having believed first?" This is a hard question for me to answer primarily because I'm not God, and if there's one thing that I'm certain of it's that I never will be. Apart from actually being God or being able to read His mind, the only way that we will ever be able to know what God wants us to do is by reading what HE TELLS US to do.

When God tells us that we are supposed to do something, He means everything that He says. Let's look at an example:

God told Noah to build the ark of a specific type of wood, gopher wood. God told noah to take 7 of every clean animal and 2 of every unclean animal. God gave Noah the exact measurements that He wanted the ark to be. Noah did all of these things and lived.

In Leviticus chapter 10 Nadab and Abihu do one things differently than what they have been told to do by God and they were consumed with fire. While we might not be consumed with fire immediately today, if we are disobedient then one day we will be. We have to do what God says and how God says to do it out of both obedience and love for Him.

God tells us that we are to be baptized for the remission of our sins (Acts 2:38). This is why we need to be baptized, not because the wanter saves us, but because God has chosen the point that we are baptized for this purpose to cleanse of our sins and add us to His church. Baptism is not a public profession of faith, and it doesn't matter if only you and the person baptizing you are there - what matters is that you are baptized in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit for the remission of sins.

So, after all this, this is my answer to your question: If I were you, because of what the Bible teaches I would be baptized, as soon as possible, for the remission of my sins. I wouldn't do it just to be safe, but because I truly believed that what God has said is true. I can't tell you what would happen if you died before you were baptized for this reason, that's between you and God, but I do know that we need to be baptized.

Also, Galadriel, you can be baptized by anyone, anywhere. All you need is water, your repentece, belief and confession that Jesus is the Son of God, and then your baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit for the remission of your sins.

I will be praying for you, and will be waiting to hear back from you :).
 
Upvote 0

Galadriel

Lady of Light
Jun 24, 2003
1,895
84
42
USA
✟27,354.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Hello aggie03,
Yes, I finally have been caught up! :)
Hmm, but when Jesus went healing the people, telling them that their faith has healed them, he did not add that they had to get baptized as well. I didn't read anywhere (maybe I bypassed it) that Jesus' disciples were ever baptized. I wonder why it is said to be baptized in some verses and not in others?
 
Upvote 0

Theresa

With Reason
Nov 27, 2002
7,866
198
47
✟31,789.00
Faith
Catholic
"The Protestant principle that one is saved by faith alone, sola fide, is sometimes defended by quoting from the book of Romans, "Because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is the Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom 10:9).

The difficulty with this examply of biblical interpretation is that it puts a wall around the passage as if it has no relationship to the rest of the Bible. Inspiration affirms that the Bible has one primary author, the Holy Spirit. Therefore Biblical passages must be interpreted in a manner consistent with the entire Word of God.

Romans 10:9 is one example of a number of passages that present an abbreviated summary of what is necessary for salvation. For example, Jesus preached that one must 'repent and believe' (Mk 1:15). However, when the rich young man came to Jesus and asked him what he must do to be saved, Jesus answered, "keep the commandments" (Mt 19:17). Jesus said nothing about faith. Peter also omits faith when he responds to the question, "Bretheren, what shall we do?" (Acts 2:37). He replies, "Repent and be baptised, every one of you." (Acts 2:39). However, in answering the Phillipean jailor, Paul says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:31). St.Paul doesn't mention repentence or baptism."


St. Charles Borromeo websit- Point Papers- "Sola Fide and Romans 10:9"

-of course, any example can be used in the place of Romans 10:9.

Christ said:

Mark 16

14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, " Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 " who has believed and has been baptized shall be savedt he who has disbelieved shall be condemned. "


-Notice, believing and baptism aren't against each other, they are two sides of the same coin as I noted previously. He says to believe and be baptized, then he says those who have not believed are condemned implying that believing and being baptized are synonomous, they go hand in hand.
 
Upvote 0

Benedicta00

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2003
28,512
838
Visit site
✟55,563.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
aggie03 wrote:

then I would simply run around and force everyone I could find under water and baptize them.

That is just what Jesus commanded his apostles to do. He said to them, "Go and make disciples of all nations baptizing them in the name of the father, son, and Holy Spirit."

Baptism makes us disciples of Christ but even the disciples themselves fell away and came back.

Baptism incorporates us into the body of Christ and that is necessary for salvation. Once our separation from God that we were born with has been reconciled through baptism, we can always come back to God when we repent if we fall away because nothing now can ever separate us from the love of God again.

That is also why one who has been validly baptized with a Trinitarian Christian baptism has no need for another baptism, even if it is only a “believer’s baptism.” Jesus said that no one comes to the father unless it is through him and once we are baptized we are in God’s family, already adopted, there is no need to be adopted over again.

The Church since Christ's accession has always taken great care not to neglect her mission given by Christ himself to make disciples through baptism to who ever comes to Christ and no one is rejected, all who are brought to him he does not turn away including infants who can not reject his grace, Jesus said to let the children come to him and not to hinder them, so we bring him infants as well as adults.

The bible says that all has sinned and fallen short of the glory of God so theses little innocent souls are in need of baptismal grace [salvation] just like anyone else is in order that Christ may bridge the gap between them and the sin of separation that Adam created.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.