Babylon is the final kingdom the kingdom of the beast

[FutureAndAHope]

Who is Babylon in Revelation? The beast upon which the woman (harlot) rides is an end-time kingdom, the final end-time kingdom before Christ returns, it does not yet exist. It is not current-day Russia, or China, the UN, EU nor any other nation (they all have more than 7 rulers), it has yet to come. Yet it may be made up of parts of those nations, however, i.e. its feet being the feet of the “bear” (possibly Russia), etc.


We see this kingdom has the following characteristics:

• It rules over the whole earth
• It has 7 rulers heads or rulers
• It has 10 horns or kings that rule with the beast (together) at the end
• The beast will make war with the saints
• This kingdom will finally be overcome by Jesus’s return

Dan 7:7-8 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.


Dan 7:23-27 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'


Rev 13:1-2 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.



Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


Rev 17:9-14 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."


There are other kingdoms before it, notably:


Dan 7:5 "And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: 'Arise, devour much flesh!'


I believe we are in the end times. I wonder whether Daniel 7: 5 is our time, the “bear” being Russia (the symbol of that country). Which right now has arisen to “devour much flesh”.


The interesting thing is the book of Revelation is not all a sequence, Revelation 13 and 17 describe the “same” beast.

 

[RandyPNW]

Mystery Babylon is Rome, pure and simple. It would've been understood as such by those to whom Revelation was written. It is described as a "mystery" because John was not given to identify her explicitly--he was imprisoned by the Romans. It would not do him well to describe their capital city as a "harlot!"

John was given 2 riddles in Rev 17, "7 hills" and "7 kings." These two symbols are extracted from the fact the Beast has 7 heads, which are 7 European leaders who stand together with the Beast. According to Dan 7, 3 of the 10 kingdoms have their rulers removed, leaving 7 rulers to align with Antichrist over 10 kingdoms.

So the riddle of the "7 hills" refers to the 7 hills of Rome, since Rome was known as a city with 7 hills. And the riddle of the "7 kings" refers to a succession of kingdoms understood in the Bible, beginning with Egypt, and continuing with the Assyrians and the Babylonians, who led to Israel's captivities. And then, in the book of Daniel, we have a continuation of these kingdoms in Persia, Greece, and finally Rome.

This 6th "king" we are told existed in John's time. Clearly, that was Rome. So the "mystery" is discernible by Christians who know the Bible and history.

The 7th "king" refers to Rome's endtime existence, led by Antichrist, the "8th king." Since the Antichrist destroys the Harlot, there is a clear distinction between the Antichrist and Rome.

Israel, in the time of her backsliding, was viewed as a harlot. It is no different with the apostate Church in the endtimes, who when falling away from their faith, appear as a "great harlot." The Antichrist will use this harlot, but in the end destroy it.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Mystery Babylon is Rome, pure and simple. It would've been understood as such by those to whom Revelation was written. It is described as a "mystery" because John was not given to identify her explicitly--he was imprisoned by the Romans. It would not do him well to describe their capital city as a "harlot!"

John was given 2 riddles in Rev 17, "7 hills" and "7 kings." These two symbols are extracted from the fact the Beast has 7 heads, which are 7 European leaders who stand together with the Beast. According to Dan 7, 3 of the 10 kingdoms have their rulers removed, leaving 7 rulers to align with Antichrist over 10 kingdoms.

So the riddle of the "7 hills" refers to the 7 hills of Rome, since Rome was known as a city with 7 hills. And the riddle of the "7 kings" refers to a succession of kingdoms understood in the Bible, beginning with Egypt, and continuing with the Assyrians and the Babylonians, who led to Israel's captivities. And then, in the book of Daniel, we have a continuation of these kingdoms in Persia, Greece, and finally Rome.

This 6th "king" we are told existed in John's time. Clearly, that was Rome. So the "mystery" is discernible by Christians who know the Bible and history.

The 7th "king" refers to Rome's endtime existence, led by Antichrist, the "8th king." Since the Antichrist destroys the Harlot, there is a clear distinction between the Antichrist and Rome.

Israel, in the time of her backsliding, was viewed as a harlot. It is no different with the apostate Church in the endtimes, who when falling away from their faith, appear as a "great harlot." The Antichrist will use this harlot, but in the end destroy it.

I have had a look at your response.


Due to the seven hills, and the biblical references to Rome being Babylon. The end-time kingdom may well have a Roman base, maybe some corruption of the Roman Catholic Church, obviously no longer believing in Christ.


I will more thoroughly investigate your other comments as I get some time, have spent an hour or so going over it, but need more time.

 

[ewq1938]

• It has 7 rulers heads or rulers
• It has 10 horns or kings that rule with the beast (together) at the end

Does it have 7 or 10 rulers? Certainly Revelation says nothing about it having 17 rulers.

Heads are not rulers. They are mountains which symbolize areas of land where the ten horns/kings will rule from.

Rev does speak of 8 kings, but 5 had already fallen in Johns time and one was in the process of eventually falling so those cannot be counted as rulers in the endtimes. Only the 7th and 8th could possibly be counted in those times.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Does it have 7 or 10 rulers? Certainly Revelation says nothing about it having 17 rulers.

The Bible, says there are 7 kings in the kingdom, then 10 people rule at the same time (together).

Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.​

So there are seven kings, and one of them becomes the 8th ruler (and is of the seven), and the 8 ruler goes to judgment (is the king we know as the beast).

This 8th ruler (the beast) rules together with 10 other people.

Rev 17:12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast.​

Rev does speak of 8 kings, but 5 had already fallen in Johns time and one was in the process of eventually falling so those cannot be counted as rulers in the endtimes. Only the 7th and 8th could possibly be counted in those times.

If we look at the kings (emperors) of Rome, this does not appear to make sense. The Book of Revelation was written sometime around 96 CE in Asia Minor.

• Augustus (31 BCE–14 CE)
• Tiberius (14–37 CE)
• Caligula (37–41 CE)
• Claudius (41–54 CE)
• Nero (54–68 CE)
• Galba (68–69 CE)
• Otho (January–April 69 CE)
• Aulus Vitellius (July–December 69 CE)
• Vespasian (69–79 CE)
• Titus (79–81 CE)
• Domitian (81–96 CE)
• Nerva (96–98 CE)

This would make one of the rulers between Augustus and Otho the beast, who Christ disposes of with His return. John can not be talking about the rulers of Ancient Rome.

That said, John may well be speaking of the city of Rome (on seven hills).

But also we see the harlot:

Rev 17:1 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and talked with me, saying to me, "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters.

Rev 17:15 Then he said to me, "The waters which you saw, where the harlot sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues.

Rev 17:18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth."
​

The Harlot is likely Rome (that great city), not the beast itself. The harlot rules over people, possibly the Catholic Church (it is the only part of Rome that currently rules over "many waters"). The final beast the 8th will, with the council of 10, make desolate the woman.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
​

We see the city of Rome or the Catholic Church(?). Will initially be carried by this end-time kingdom, but the kingdom will turn on it, turn on the harlot and make her desolate.

Rev 17:6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
​

The Catholic Church has shed much blood during its history. Hence it could be said to be drunk with the blood of the saints.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

As a side note, I have been looking for Kingdoms that meet the criteria, of 7, and 10. None of the countries that I have investigated have such numbers. But the World Council of Religious Leaders does. It is a body that seeks to join together in harmony the religions of the world. Note here, they have 7 co-chairs and 10 board members.

The World Council of Religious Leaders

Might be nothing, but yet it may be a possibility.

 

[Joined2krist]

If RC is Babylon as you wrongly assume, then what about Islam and other major religions like Hinduism and Budhism, who do not believe that Jesus is the son of God?

 

[Douggg]

This would make one of the rulers between Augustus and Otho the beast, who Christ disposes of with His return. John can not be talking about the rulers of Ancient Rome.

The bible does not say emperors - but kings, to represent leaders. The 8th king being of the 7 previous kings is because all are of the Julio-Claudian family of Caesars.

Julius Caesar
Augustus Caesar
Tiberius
Caligula
Claudius
Nero - last of the historic Julio Claudians

King 7 will be the end times little horn person - descended from that bloodline
King 8 will be King 7 after he is killed and brought back to life as the beast.

King 7 after Gog/Magog is the prince who shall come - from the EU. He will be anointed the king of Israel to become the Antichrist. His time as the Antichrist coming in his our name ends when he claim to be God.

He will be killed, brought back to life as the beast, King 8. And the ten EU leaders hand their kingdom over to him, to be dictator, of the most dominant kingdom in the world.

For a name, I am watching Zelenskly.

 

[Douggg]

As a side note, I have been looking for Kingdoms that meet the criteria, of 7, and 10. None of the countries that I have investigated have such numbers. But the World Council of Religious Leaders does. It is a body that seeks to join together in harmony the religions of the world. Note here, they have 7 co-chairs and 10 board members.

The World Council of Religious Leaders

Might be nothing, but yet it may be a possibility.

I appreciate your interest in the ten kings, and the seven kings because those are critical to the end times understanding. Right now, the ten kings are not identifiable, imo. I don't think the governing structure of the ten kings is in place yet.

The EU has a complicated government structure. So imo it would just like to come up with some sort ten leader body.

 

[Douggg]

If RC is Babylon as you wrongly assume, then what about Islam and other major religions like Hinduism and Budhism, who do not believe that Jesus is the son of God?

The Pope, papacy, is not the Antichrist. The RCC is not Babylon either.

The Vatican, however, because of its historical past persecution of Christians, appears to be what the ten leaders will destroy, but will not be for that reason in their minds, because.... The Vatican, in spite of all its faults, maintains that Jesus is God - which will run afoul of the beast's (and his ten king inner circle) claim of the beast being God.

 

[RandyPNW]

I have had a look at your response.


Due to the seven hills, and the biblical references to Rome being Babylon. The end-time kingdom may well have a Roman base, maybe some corruption of the Roman Catholic Church, obviously no longer believing in Christ.


I will more thoroughly investigate your other comments as I get some time, have spent an hour or so going over it, but need more time.

Fair enough. Much more can be said about this, and it's a fairly complex prophecy. Let me know what you think? I've heard all of the different interpretations.

 

[claninja]

Who is Babylon in Revelation? The beast upon which the woman (harlot) rides is an end-time kingdom, the final end-time kingdom before Christ returns, it does not yet exist. It is not current-day Russia, or China, the UN, EU nor any other nation (they all have more than 7 rulers), it has yet to come. Yet it may be made up of parts of those nations, however, i.e. its feet being the feet of the “bear” (possibly Russia), etc.


We see this kingdom has the following characteristics:

• It rules over the whole earth
• It has 7 rulers heads or rulers
• It has 10 horns or kings that rule with the beast (together) at the end
• The beast will make war with the saints
• This kingdom will finally be overcome by Jesus’s return

Dan 7:7-8 "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.


Dan 7:23-27 "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'


Rev 13:1-2 Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name. Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.



Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the Spirit into the wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.


Rev 17:9-14 "Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."


There are other kingdoms before it, notably:


Dan 7:5 "And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: 'Arise, devour much flesh!'


I believe we are in the end times. I wonder whether Daniel 7: 5 is our time, the “bear” being Russia (the symbol of that country). Which right now has arisen to “devour much flesh”.


The interesting thing is the book of Revelation is not all a sequence, Revelation 13 and 17 describe the “same” beast.

Babylon doesn’t have 7 head nor 10 horns. Babylon, is harlot dressed in red and purple garments with one head, rides the beast, and is destroyed by the beast.

the harlot is charged with all the righteous bloodshed. Who else is charged with all the righteous bloodshed? There you will find your answer on the identity.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

If RC is Babylon as you wrongly assume, then what about Islam and other major religions like Hinduism and Budhism, who do not believe that Jesus is the son of God?

If it is the case that the beast is the World Council of Religious Leaders, then the world religions are a part of the beast upon which the woman rides.

The World Council of Religious Leaders has the correct number of leaders to fit the depiction in Revelation. It is a body that seeks to join together in harmony the religions of the world. Note, they have 7 co-chairs and 10 board members. The beast upon which the woman rides in Revelation has seven rulers, and 10 rulers that rule together.

 

[ewq1938]

The Bible, says there are 7 kings in the kingdom

The bible does not say that.

Rev 17:10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition.​

So there are seven kings, and one of them becomes the 8th ruler (and is of the seven), and the 8 ruler goes to judgment (is the king we know as the beast).

You forgot the whole "five are fallen" part which means they are dead and gone.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The bible does not say that.

It does say there are seven rulers, although, from the quote you give next, it appears they rule sequentially, not together.

You forgot the whole "five are fallen" part which means they are dead and gone.

The "five are fallen" is a bit ambiguous, because it can't be referring to Roman emperors (at the time of John), because Rome was not destroyed, within a few sovereign rules. The idea that it refers to Kingdoms could fit, but I am not convinced of that either to be honest. At this point, it is unknown to me, I am still investigating.

 

[ewq1938]

It does say there are seven rulers,

I meant not at the same time in the Rev 13 beast.

although, from the quote you give next, it appears they rule sequentially, not together.

Yes. 6 are now gone, we are waiting for the 7th and 8th.

The "five are fallen" is a bit ambiguous, because it can't be referring to Roman emperors (at the time of John), because Rome was not destroyed, within a few sovereign rules.

Of course they were not Roman kings.

The idea that it refers to Kingdoms could fit, but I am not convinced of that either to be honest. At this point, it is unknown to me, I am still investigating.

The first 6 are kings of past kingdoms. They are not part of the Rev 13 beast. That is why I said there are not 7 kings that are a part of the beast kingdom. There are ten kings, with the Ac as their leader.


There are 7 heads of the beast but those are mountains not kings.

 

[Douggg]

There are 7 heads of the beast but those are mountains not kings.

The 7 heads represent 7 mountains, and 7 kings. The 7 heads in Revelation 12 have crowns. Something not appropriate for mountains.

 

[Douggg]

There are ten kings, with the Ac as their leader.

Ten kings of the fourth kingdom. The person first emerges as the little horn, who will be over the ten kings.

At the end of his time, the person will have become the beast, which the ten kings will hand their fourth kingdom over to him - as being dictator of the fourth kingdom.

Here is the timeline changes of the person with the supporting verses....

 

[ewq1938]

The 7 heads represent 7 mountains, and 7 kings. The 7 heads in Revelation 12 have crowns. Something not appropriate for mountains.

Not appropriate according to what rules? The rules of symbolism? There is no such thing. The heads are symbolic of mountains according to Rev 17 and mountains are areas of land. Only the horns symbolize kings and there are 10 kings within the area of 7 mountains. That is what 10 horns on 7 heads mean. What it does not mean is 10 kings on top of 7 other kings.

 

[Douggg]

What it does not mean is 10 kings on top of 7 other kings.

There are not ten kings on top of seven other kings.

Since the ten kings are associated with king 7 and 8 (both the seventh head before and after being mortally wounded ) the ten horns were probably on the seventh head.

the seventh head
little horn - king 7 - leader of the ten kings' fourth kingdom.
the beast - king 8 - dictator of the ten kings' fourth kingdom