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Atheism is amoral

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by HenryM, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. DogmaHunter

    DogmaHunter Code Monkey

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    And the condescension, arrogance and insulting just continues...........

    Considering the last couple posts from you that I read, a "humble" heart is not something you seem to have.

    My mother, as an atheist, dealt with the death of her mom just fine.
    Atheists all over the world, deal with the death of loved ones just fine. Not better or worse then any non-theists.

    Get of your high horse.
     
  2. DogmaHunter

    DogmaHunter Code Monkey

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    And you won't be able to say that you weren't warned of the "punishment" in case you refuse becoming a muslim or whatever.

    The problem is that these "warnings" are without content and without bite.
    It's like trying to scare me into being good "or santa won't bring you presents". Yes, you could "warn" me about that too. I won't be losing any sleep over that "warning" either.

    Great.
    Now, when you're done preaching....
    Perhaps you could return to topic.
     
  3. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    What you cant comprehend, is people can disagree with you and live a very fulfilling life. The fact you cant comprehend this, tells us a lot about you.
     
  4. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

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    I'm fine with that. I prefer integrity and reality.

    I am capable of smiling and having a reasonable degree of security. I don't claim a perfect degree of security, but that's okay. I'll be fine. :)

    I dealt with the death of my mother. I was shocked when it happened, but I faced it with honesty and I had survived just fine!

    That's great. I'm prospering too.

    Cynically? No. I'm just not convinced that you understand things properly. I am happy that you are happy. Are you happy for me?

    LOL! Are prospering people lost? Why were you going on about personal prospering? Is it a good thing, or is it inconsequential? If it is inconsequential, why did you mention it?

    Yes, so?

    Not certainly. That's just your party line. It's a great way of just writing other people off. If I'm not a Christian, then clearly I'm guided by evil. You can then just dismiss anything I say.

    Oh, I've had plenty of time to think about that. What if my drives are not what you personally think? What if they are actually positive?

    I'll be sure to choose Odin and die with a sword in my hand. Can you afford to do differently? Don't die without going to Valhalla.

    We've gone through this already. Do you understand that your worldview has no more credibility to me than Scandinavian mythology? Your warnings are absolutely meaningless to me, just as warning you about missing out on Valhalla is absolutely meaningless to you.


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  5. Par5

    Par5 Member

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    Atheist
    Married
    I am sure that losing your husband to cancer was a very difficult time for you, compounded by a lack of support from your family, but for goodness sake don't imagine that no one else has felt the pain of losing a loved one and don't imagine everyone's family behaves as appallingly as you said yours behaved.
    Non-believers suffer the loss of loved ones too and all the other problems that life throws at us all from time to time, but they still manage to get through those difficult times without going into meltdown, and I find it rather arrogant and indeed a downright lie for you to say that such people are lost and are being led by the devil. They are not lost and your bogeyman, the devil, plays no part in their reality.
    You talk about having this great joy in your life, but the contents of your posts seem to suggest someone who has low self-esteem and an equally low opinion of others.
    DogmaHunter has already advised you to get off your high horse. Sound advice, because you are sitting astride an old nag that is about to collapse, fit only to be carted off to the knackers yard!
     
  6. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Why are you so full of negativity?
    We christians operate from a basis of love.
    You can say what you like it will never alter my faith in Jesus Christ. He loves every one of us and wants us to belong to Him. Isn't that simply the most brilliant wonderful thing you ever heard? He commands us to love God and each other.
    Who in their right mind could possibly disagree with that?
     
  7. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

    +1,812
    Atheist
    No one here is trying to alter your faith. If it makes you happy, more power to you.

    The problem that we - most of the atheists here seem to agree - have with your stance is the, well, "negativity" you show towards us. Contempt, not love.

    Let's see. We are "lost", cannot have the peace and happiness you have... "have been warned" [about something really really bad that is going to happen to us because we don't believe]... and you think it unbelievable and funny that an unbeliever might have similar life experiences as you do.

    You keep talking about "love"... but in order to love someone, you have to take them serious. Not talk about them as cliches that your religion proscribes, and not as unsaved proto-humans that might be elevated to "human" status as soon as they start to agree with your religion.

    This is what you need to realize: the difference between us is in the things we believe and don't believe in. For the rest, we are humans just like you. We are happy, we are sad, we trust, we doubt, we laugh, we cry, we hope and we despair.

    As long as you cannot see that, and have to reduce everything about other humans to "Isn't Jesus the best thing you ever heard?", you will never understand us... and thus will never be able to show "love" towards us.
     
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  8. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    Wow very clever answers! Impressive answers to every point. Concise logical reasoning. Cold and rational. I am not clever like you. I have no idea what to say next. You have your opinions and i have mine.
    There appears to be no point in further discussion. If you feel you have won then feel free to celebrate. It does not matter to me. I must walk away from this now as i have nothing more to add. You are apparently a very happy fulfilled strong person who certainly does not need God as you are so complete in yourself. I expect you can handle just about anything.
     
  9. DogmaHunter

    DogmaHunter Code Monkey

    +4,205
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    It's not so much about "winning" as it is about making sense.
     
  10. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

    +1,812
    Atheist
    Won? No, it seems we have lost.

    You don't listen. You don't want to listen... and we cannot reach you. It seems that, as your christian vocabulary has it, "your heart is hardened".
    People here, me included, have told you how they deal with pain as well as happiness. If you think that this is "cold and rational", then it is clear that you don't listen to a word we say. You cannot see us as the people we are... you see us as the "lost souls, hardened hearts, unrepentent sinners, children of the devil" that your religion tell you we must be.

    It is kind of insulting... but we can deal with being insulted. But being told that we are "loved" and then been treated so... that hurts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
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  11. Eudaimonist

    Eudaimonist I believe in life before death!

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    Honest answers. Are you here for discussion, or just to be heard?

    Cold? No. I have replied to you with a warm heart. You seem eager to see everyone as your enemy, and yourself as the helpless martyr. We aren't martyring you. We're actually interested in discussion. You, apparently, are not.

    Maybe you are. Perhaps you should try and actually communicate with us, instead of simply rehearsing some sort of script.

    We've already established that. No one disagrees with that.

    Of course there is. You haven't discussed anything yet. You have simply talked at us. There has been no genuine discussion.

    No, I've lost. I've wanted discussion. You have hardly addressed anything specific that I've said.

    That is sad. I am sure that you have more to add.

    And how precisely have you been presenting yourself?


    eudaimonia,

    Mark
     
  12. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    2/3 of the worlds population would disagree with it. Do you judge them all the same way, just because they disagree with you?

    It appears, being able to believe what you wish in your personal life, is not good enough for you, but you are completely miffed, people actually disagree with your personal beliefs.

    I would learn to respect other people's disagreement and relieve this heavy burden you must have.
     
  13. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    I have no such burdens. Mine i hand to lord Jesus. I hope one day you will hear and see clearly. The love of Christ is free for all who want it.
    Have a good day and peace be upon you.
     
  14. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Your posts would indicate otherwise.
     
  15. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    You can assume whatever you like.
    I answer only to Jesus Christ. He alone is Lord of my life, my everything. To whom i owe every breath and all that i have. I am accountable to Him not to any human being.

    So who or what is Lord of your life? Think carefully. Because whoever and whatever you value most is where your heart is and your destiny rests.
     
  16. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

    +1,812
    Atheist
    Maybe you shouldn't think of it in terms of "answer to" or "accountability". Or, well, maybe you should.

    The main question here is how you deal with other humans, how you treat other humans. This doesn't mean that you are "accountable" to them... but whether you show them kindness, respect... love.

    For those of us who don't believe in deities, this is often enough... regardless what your faith tells you about us.

    But you... you think you are accountable to an all powerful judge. A God who commands you to love others.
    When you face his judgement, and he asks you whether you showed love towards other humans, or whether you disregarded and laughed about them... what will you tell him? "It wasn't my burden. I handed it to you."
    Really?
     
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  17. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    Nobody is laughing at you. I certainly do not treat anyone with disrespect. God wants us to love one another. Yes it is a command, the greatest and best of all.
    You look at things in a most peculiar light may i say! Christians are all about loving their fellow man and God. Thanking God for sacrificing his only son for us. Despite the fact we are all sinful wretches who deserve nothing at all! Certainly i am a wretch.
     
  18. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Evangelical Catholic Supporter

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    That isn't a good argument for atheism being immoral.

    It seems to me that's only one way to look at it.

    I'm not so sure sometimes there's a place for true morality among some Christians I have met, either.

    This is just an old rehash of the canard that atheists are dangerous because they are subversives and threaten order.
     
  19. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    And you can believe that. Many disagree with you and i would learn to respect and deal with that reality, without preaching and claiming those who disagree with you, are missing something.
     
  20. Strathos

    Strathos No one important

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    *Amoral
     
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