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Atheism is amoral

Discussion in 'Ethics & Morality' started by HenryM, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    I will admit that a conversation here is a little different from a conversation eye to eye. You don't make it easier for us by choosing not to quote the post you respond to.

    Still, I'd like to remind you of the post that caused my to chime in to this conversation.
    In this post (#615), you made the statement:
    "But just compare my experience with those who have no belief in God. Such people are lost."
    I responded to that challenge by talking about my experiences with the death of my brother and mother.

    Your reaction to that was "LOL!", and then telling me / us atheists that we "have been warned". You deliberatly chose to Laugh Out Loud at a post talking about the loss of a whole family, dismissing it, turning to threats... and you want to tell me that this isn't disrespectful?

    You have a very weird understanding of respect.

    I might even say that you have NO understanding of respect.

    Again, you talk about "loving their fellow man". And what do you do then? You start talking about being thankful to God and how bad we all are.

    Don't you think that your reaction to my post detailing a situation that deeply griefed me might have hurt me? Did it ever cross your mind that you asked for a comparing of experiences... and then, when someone did, you dismissed it instantly?

    Is this love? Is this respect?
     
  2. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    Not that many people are aware of the difference.
     
  3. Par5

    Par5 Member

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    OK, but HenryM obviously believes atheists are immoral, he said as much.
    "It's obvious that there's no place for true morality within atheism."
     
  4. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    That is amorailty - without a moral framework; rather than immorality - breaking a known moral framework.
     
  5. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    Hi
    On a bit of a tangent do try watching the documentary series Jesus the Game Changer. You will be surprised to learn that the health and education services we all depend upon were all begun and developed by christian missionary groups and individuals. Jesus is in your life whether you acknowledge it or not.
     
  6. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    You just cant help yourself, can you?
     
  7. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    Nope.
    You are quick off the mark. Have you got nothing better to do? Ha ha!
     
  8. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Irony
     
  9. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    I'd rather stay on point. I second what bhsmte said: you really can't help yourself, can you?

    You talk about the love that you - you personally - are commanded to show others. But you don't, and when you are called out on that... instead of taking responsibility for your own actions and start showing some love and respect, you ignore everything that was said and go of a "tangent".

    I am telling you, right now, that for me personally your behaviour here is rather offensive, insulting and hurtful. What are you going to do about that?
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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  10. ToddNotTodd

    ToddNotTodd Iconoclast

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    It’s not just you...
     
  11. compassion 4 humanity

    compassion 4 humanity Member

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    Bill Gates is an agnostic/atheist. He has donated billions of dollars to his charity called the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. Countless people from poor countries have benefited from Gates’ generosity.

    If atheists were as awful as you describe, why has Bill Gates given so much money to alleviating the suffering of people in developing nations? Your thesis is nonsense.

    One reason why some atheists don’t convert to Christianity is because many Christians are hostile towards them. Castigating atheists like you did is no way to win souls for Jesus.
     
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  12. Lilly54

    Lilly54 Well-Known Member

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    I agree totally with HenryM. Every word.

    As for Bill Gates, no amount of giving to charity could lead to saving his soul if he rejects Christ. We cannot ever do enough to please God through good works. That is impossible as we are flawed and sinful by nature. Only by faith and acceptance of Jesus Christ can we have eternal life in Gods heavenly kingdom.
    In my opinion. I am a christian, that is my view. My allegiance is with my brothers and sisters in Christ. Join us if you wish. Entirely your choice. We all have free will and are entitled to go our own path. God will never force himself into your heart because that door is locked from the inside.

    Mock all you want atheists. It does not matter to me one bit.
     
  13. Dave-W

    Dave-W Our six grandchildren Supporter

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    Do you mean amoral or immoral?
     
  14. Freodin

    Freodin Devout believer in a theologically different God

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    Thank you.
    Some people here have already pointed out the difference between "amoral" and "immoral", and there is the whole discussion about the nature of morality at all.

    But there are too many believers that simply take that as "atheists are awful people"... and it is always great to find someone who has a more differentiated view.

    Here, though, I think you just repeated a common Christian myth. The hostility of some/many Christians toward non-Christians and atheists may be a secondary reason for some not to consider Christianity valid... because it casts further doubt on Christianity's claim to "love your neighbor"... but ultimately it is this "doubt" - unbelief, disbelief - in the claims of Christianiyt that keeps atheists from "converting".

    If they believed in any way - and every single other Christian in the world would be hostile to them - they would just form another branch of Christianity.
     
  15. Par5

    Par5 Member

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    I didn't actually notice anyone mocking. Giving their opinion, yes, but mocking, no.
    Perhaps you would like to point out all this mockery I missed, or is it really just a case of you making things up about people who disagree with you?
     
  16. compassion 4 humanity

    compassion 4 humanity Member

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    I’m a former atheist, so I understand how a nonbeliever feels when he hears Christians say that you can’t be good or moral without God.

    Here is how I would explain it to a Christian: Imagine everyone you know—friends, family, co-workers, etc.—believes in Bigfoot, and they continually insist in their heart of hearts that he is real. But you know he is just a tale from folklore. You think it’s ridiculous how so many people believe in Bigfoot and think you’re one of the few rational people around for not believing in silly myths. Then you hear a one of these believers tell you that it isn’t possible to be a good, moral person without recognizing that Bigfoot is “real.” You feel surprised and slightly insulted. After all, you donate to charity, act kindly toward others, and feel like you have good character. Why on earth would someone imply that you’re a bad person for not believing in Bigfoot? It’s ridiculous.

    This sums out how an atheist feels when he hears Christians say that you can’t be good without belief in God. Unfortunately, a lot of Christians don’t put things in perspective and try to understand how atheists feel on the subject.

    Yes, it’s possible to be a good and moral if you’re not a believer. In fact, there are many good agnostic/atheists out there like Bill Gates. But I will add that faith in Christ and successfully imitating the humble, loving life of Jesus does improve morality.
     
  17. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Any theology, that grants eternal life to the serial killer who finds Jesus in prison and condemns the non christian, who lives a life of helping others, is a morally bankrupt theology.
     
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  18. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    Your last sentence may be true for you, but what you can't do, is claim it applies to others.

    I always say, if a certain theology helps a person cope with life, makes them a better person, in the sense they treat others with respect and don't have a need to criticize others simply because they disagree with their theology, is someone who should hold onto their beliefs.

    At least on this forum, there are a number of Christians, who simply appear threatened, simply because everyone doesn't agree with them and they have this need to demonize those who disagree. This tells me everything I need to know, about that person who needs to judge in that fashion.
     
  19. compassion 4 humanity

    compassion 4 humanity Member

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    Don’t let the negative comments from Christians make you feel alienated from faith. Christianity is perfect; its adherents are far from it.
     
  20. bhsmte

    bhsmte Newbie

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    My not being a Christian, has zero to do with Christians. I don't base my judgement, on what other people think or do, that is not how I role.

    I was a Christian for most of my life and as I learned over the years, I simply could not reconcile the story, with well evidenced reality any longer and pretend to believe something. I fully understand why many people find religion appealing though and if it works for them, that is great, as long as they respect others who don't agree with them. When it comes to Christians, they should remember, 2/3 of the worlds population disagree with them and those people are not their enemy, nor do they keep Christians from practicing their own religious beliefs.
     
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