Atheism is amoral

[Grace2022]

Any theology, that grants eternal life to the serial killer who finds Jesus in prison and condemns the non christian, who lives a life of helping others, is a morally bankrupt theology.

Hi
It means absolutely nobody is beyond redemption. No matter what. St Paul was Saul before he realised who Jesus was. From being a man in charge of ordering to death christians he became the great apostle who began the christian church. This is the miracle Jesus works incthe individual.
In my tiny humble way i am proof. I was an atheist, never gave God a thought. Then when i realised and asked forgiveness God did not reject me. As i richly deserved! Instead he filled my whole life and transformed it for the better and best.
Read the story of The Prodigal Son, it shows how God will never reject anyone who truly repents and turns to Him. So no, even a murderer can be saved. That is who our God is. He wants us as long as we are pure of heart.
There are stories of mob bosses/ terrible criminals who have led appalling lives who finally realise Jesus Christ is the Way and they are transformed.

 

[bhsmte]

Hi
It means absolutely nobody is beyond redemption. No matter what. St Paul was Saul before he realised who Jesus was. From being a man in charge of ordering to death christians he became the great apostle who began the christian church. This is the miracle Jesus works incthe individual.
In my tiny humble way i am proof. I was an atheist, never gave God a thought. Then when i realised and asked forgiveness God did not reject me. As i richly deserved! Instead he filled my whole life and transformed it for the better and best.
Read the story of The Prodigal Son, it shows how God will never reject anyone who truly repents and turns to Him. So no, even a murderer can be saved. That is who our God is. He wants us as long as we are pure of heart.
There are stories of mob bosses/ terrible criminals who have led appalling lives who finally realise Jesus Christ is the Way and they are transformed.

My point stands.

 

[DogmaHunter]

We cannot ever do enough to please God through good works. That is impossible as we are flawed and sinful by nature.

Emphasis mine.
If we are so by nature, and God created us, then God created us flawed and sinful.
In other words, it is his responsability then, that we are this way.

As The Hitch once infamously said: "created sick and commanded to be well".

Only by faith and acceptance of Jesus Christ can we have eternal life in Gods heavenly kingdom.
In my opinion. I am a christian, that is my view. My allegiance is with my brothers and sisters in Christ. Join us if you wish. Entirely your choice.

You know what I find most depressing and heart breaking? And I am being very serious and honest here...

It's heart breaking to see how you talk here so full of contempt, borderlining hate even, so condescending... While you actually believe that you are being righteous and doing a good job. Your fundamentalist beliefs have blinded you so much that you don't even realise that you are doing this.

Most likely you are otherwise a normal kind and decent person. But this religion is absolute poison for your mind. You think it is positive and moral and ethical... but in reality you are full of contempt, hate and suffer from a serious moral superiority complex. It is not positive. It is very negative and divisive.

We can not be friends, because of the beliefs that you have. You consider me to be "of the devil" or similar. You believe that I will go to hell and that I deserve it.

Your religious beliefs that make you think about me / us that way, is the root cause of this. It is simply social poison.

I don't know how to rectify this. I have no idea what can be said or done to make you understand that we aren't horrible baby eating people. That's the sad part: nothing can be said or done. The only thing we can attempt, is try and make you realise just how divisive and hatefull your speeches here are.

And that's the frustrating part: you simply aren't seeing it.

We all have free will and are entitled to go our own path. God will never force himself into your heart because that door is locked from the inside.

I don't understand how you can say that either, if you believe that eternal torture awaits those that don't play to according to his rules.

Mock all you want atheists. It does not matter to me one bit.

I know it doesn't matter to you.
That's the poisonous part.

And nobody is mocking you. Instead, people are trying to make you understand how negative and divisive your overall behaviour is.

 

[Grace2022]

Actually, any hatefulness is coming from you the atheist. I do not have contempt or hatred for anyone.
I do believe we are all full of sin. We were created pure and perfect. But from Adam and Eve we chose to disobey God. As christians we accept this. I accept i am
a wretched sinner. I pray to God for forgiveness and ask that i in turn be able to forgive those who hurt me. Jesus is all about acceptance, forgiveness and love and compassion.

Humility is essential to be a christian. You are not convinced, so be it. But do not take it personally. I wonder why atheists often get so offended. There is no need. You believe in yourselves and in nothing before or after this life. In contrast i as a christian believe we are created by God and my reason for existing is to praise my creator always. I depend on every breath on God.

 

[bhsmte]

Actually, any hatefulness is coming from you the atheist. I do not have contempt or hayted for anyone.
I do believe we are all full of sin. We were created pure and perfect. But from Adam and Eve we chose to disobey God. As christian we accept this. I accept i am
a wretched sinner. I pray to God for forgiveness and ask that i in turn be able to forgive those who hurt me. Jesus is all about acceptance, forgiveness and love and compassion.

I need humility to be a christian. You ate not convinced so be it. But do mot take it personally. I wonder why atheists often get so offended. There is no need. You believe yourselves and in nothing before or afyer tjis life. As a christian i believe we are created by God and my reason for existing is to praise my creator always.

Praise whoever you like. But, you cant seem to deal with other people disagreeing with you and you need to demonize them. Sad way to go through life and very revealing about you.

 

[Grace2022]

By the way any atheists, what do you make of the memorial service going on at St Paul's Cathedral today? To remember victims of the Grenfell fire. Is it a load of rubbish? Do you think all who are there are fools? Misguided? Including the Queen, the prime minister?
After all they are conducting a christian memorial.
What would atheists do instead?
I am simply curious.

 

[Archie Dupont]

By the way any atheists, what do you make of the memorial service going on at St Paul's Cathedral today? To remember victims of the Grenfell fire. Is it a load of rubbish? Do you think all who are there are fools? Misguided? Including the Queen, the prime minister?
After all they are conducting a christian memorial.
What would atheists do instead?
I am simply curious.

As a Christian I can honestly say that that comment is misguided.
You make it sound like the memorial is some kind of Christian event. Or that such kind of events are exclusively organized by Christians. The fact it is done in a church, and Christians are attending, doesn't mean that you can claim it as your own. I don't for instance.

Your comment inspires polarization. Dividing society in Christians and non-Christians, while an event like this is trying to do the opposite. Most victims (and their families) were Muslims. And still they are there in a Christian church. Not arguing about which religion is better or where to find morality. No, to grieve as equals. Nobody except you apparently cares who in that room is Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Anglican enz.

 

[Archie Dupont]

In contrast i as a christian believe we are created by God and my reason for existing is to praise my creator always.

Hypothetical, if you had a child. You created it. Would you want it to praise you all the time as your creator? Would you want it to look up at you for everything and believe everything you say even if it might be wrong? Would you want your child to sit in the house his whole life and not experience every good and bad part the world has to offer outside the front door?

I would not. I would want my child to go out in the world, enjoy everything it has to offer. Food, sex, greed, regret, experimentation, hurting, getting hurt, enz enz. Everything that it needs to learn more about the world and itself. So when its life is complete, it would come up to me and tell me that he made everything of the world that God created for him. That would make me a happy parent.

Monks living in monasteries their whole life, people forced to have only one spouse their whole life, people forbidden to eat food God has put on this world. I can name so many things that some religious people miss out on. Why would God create such an intricate bountiful world if not for us to explore and experience it.

I think God would be wildly disappointed if you would come up to the pearly gates telling him what a good boy you have been and how you (with the titel of natural sinner already in your belt) refrained from sinning. How you have refrained yourself from all the things God created for us to enjoy because you believed he asked that of you.

I believe in a God that created the world to do with as we see fit. The good, the bad, the beautiful, the ugly. For it is there for a reason. Yes we might answer for that. But as you pointed out yourself. God forgives everyone, even the very bad. As long as you respect him as the creator. And what a better way to respect a creator than to use his creation to the fullest

 

[Grace2022]

As a Christian I can honestly say that that comment is misguided.
You make it sound like the memorial is some kind of Christian event. Or that such kind of events are exclusively organized by Christians. The fact it is done in a church, and Christians are attending, doesn't mean that you can claim it as your own. I don't for instance.

Your comment inspires polarization. Dividing society in Christians and non-Christians, while an event like this is trying to do the opposite. Most victims (and their families) were Muslims. And still they are there in a Christian church. Not arguing about which religion is better or where to find morality. No, to grieve as equals. Nobody except you apparently cares who in that room is Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Anglican enz.

Hi
Ok, i apologise. I did not think it through enough before posting. I am sorry. I am wrong to have gone that far.

I am just keen to defend Jesus Christ. I want to stand up for Christianity. But i understand that respect should be shown to all. It was a multi faith service.

 

[bhsmte]

Hi
Ok, i apologise. I did not think it through enough before posting. I am sorry. I am wrong to have gone that far.

I am just keen to defend Jesus Christ. I want to stand up for Christianity. But i understand that respect should be shown to all. It was a multi faith service.

And no one is stopping you from personally practicing your faith, which seems to include demonizing people who dont believe as you do.

 

[Freodin]

Hi
Ok, i apologise. I did not think it through enough before posting. I am sorry. I am wrong to have gone that far.

I am just keen to defend Jesus Christ. I want to stand up for Christianity. But i understand that respect should be shown to all. It was a multi faith service.

That's a good start. Perhaps you should take that as an example, and look back to some of your previous posts. Perhaps you can come to the conclusion that you did not think these through enough as well. Perhaps you can see that in your zeal to "defend Jesus", you managed to totally disregard the other great comandment of your faith: love your fellow humans.

Imagine the situation, this very situation: you are in this memorial service... with a lot of other humans who do not believe in Jesus. Humans who have suffered horrible losses, who are grieving.

Are you going to tell them that their loved ones are all "lost"... forever now? Are you going to tell them that they should "accept Jesus"... or they will be "lost" as well. That they cannot and will not find any solace for their grief, because only Christians can have that? Will you ask them what they are even doing there, lol!

I sincerely hope that you wouldn't act this way. I believe that, confronted face to face with those human beings, you would treat them with love and respect. As humans. Not as fellow believers, but as fellow human beings.

They don't believe as you do. But they are not attacking you. They are not mocking you.

Neither are we here. We don't believe. We disagree with your belief. That is not an attack on you, on your faith or on Jesus.

Sinners or not, we are all just human beings dealing with life. Start to see people as that, and loving others will become a lot more easy.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Actually, any hatefulness is coming from you the atheist. I do not have contempt or hatred for anyone.

Yes, I know you believe that.
In reality, I am on the defensive while you are on the offensive.

Jesus is all about acceptance, forgiveness and love and compassion.

Myeah, I'm not seeing any of that in this conversation...

Humility is essential to be a christian. You are not convinced, so be it. But do not take it personally.

I don't take issue with ancient stories.
It is you who is making it personal.

I wonder why atheists often get so offended.

Uhu.
We've been trying to explain it to you. The point exactly.

There is no need.

I'll be the judge of when I feel justified of being offended or not, thanks.

And when someone talks to me like you do, when someone thinks that I deserve an eternity of torture, when someone tells me that I have no love or joy in my life, that nothing mattes to me, that I am "cold" or dead inside... how could I not be offended?

You believe in yourselves and in nothing before or after this life.

I don't know what you mean with "believe in yourselves" in context of this conversation.

In contrast i as a christian believe we are created by God and my reason for existing is to praise my creator always. I depend on every breath on God.

That's nice.
But it's not a reason to tell people that they are dead inside and have no love or joy in their life and what-not.

 

[DogmaHunter]

By the way any atheists, what do you make of the memorial service going on at St Paul's Cathedral today? To remember victims of the Grenfell fire. Is it a load of rubbish? Do you think all who are there are fools? Misguided? Including the Queen, the prime minister?
After all they are conducting a christian memorial.
What would atheists do instead?
I am simply curious.

And the divisiveness just continues....

We mourn the dead and engage in memorials just like all other humans. Just because it doesn't take place in a church, praising some entity in the sky (or whatever), doesn't mean that we are "dead inside" or simply don't care.

 

[Grace2022]

Well i am not your judge. But you are not your judge either.
One day we shall each stand before God.

 

[Freodin]

Well i am not your judge. But you are not your judge either.
One day we shall each stand before God.

It is astonishing.

There you are, and proclaim that God will judge you... and of course you will come of squeaky clean! You haven't done anything wrong. Never. You might be a "sinner", but Jesus and blood washing and all that stuff... and, hey, everything's fine.

All those people who come forward and testify that they were hurt by your behaviour... they are just "lost". They are wrong. Liars. Unsaved. They are not to be trusted.

And God will tell you: "Well done, my faithful servant. You might not have loved your fellow humans, as I commanded, you might even have hurt other humans. But that doesn't matter. You have defended Me, the invincible omnipotent creator of the universe against the horrible attacks of disbelief. Well done."

Yeah, this is what will happen. Surely. It cannot be otherwise.

 

[bhsmte]

Well i am not your judge. But you are not your judge either.
One day we shall each stand before God.

Opinion.

 

[compassion 4 humanity]

Hey, I have a question for atheists posting here.

If I were to join an atheist message board and discuss religion with the users, I would feel like black person at a KKK meeting. Not only would I be out of place, I would also feel hunted. Not all atheists are hostile towards people of faith and religion in general, but many of them are. Just look at Richard Dawkins’ website. He posts articles that are far from friendly towards faith, and many of the comments are aggressively anti-religion.

The atheists who have posted here have rightly noted the hostility some Christians are showing them due to their lack of belief. So I have to ask: why did you join ChristianForums to discuss your non-beliefs with Christians?

I don’t mean to sound hostile, nor am I implying you shouldn’t be welcome. I’m genuinely curious.

 

[bhsmte]

Hey, I have a question for atheists posting here.

If I were to join an atheist message board and discuss religion with the users, I would feel like black person at a KKK meeting. Not only would I be out of place, I would also feel hunted. Not all atheists are hostile towards people of faith and religion in general, but many of them are. Just look at Richard Dawkins’ website. He posts articles that are far from friendly towards faith, and many of the comments are aggressively anti-religion.

The atheists who have posted here have rightly noted the hostility some Christians are showing them due to their lack of belief. So I have to ask: why did you join ChristianForums to discuss your non-beliefs with Christians?

I don’t mean to sound hostile, nor am I implying you shouldn’t be welcome. I’m genuinely curious.

For me, for several reasons. First of all, i was a christian for most of my life, so i fully expect and understand why people will have varying beliefs or not believe at all. I find it more stimulating to discuss certain topics, with people who have different views then mine. Talking with just like minded folks tends to get stale.

Lastly, my interest here is not to influence anyones beliefs, but to see how people justify their personal beliefs and how their beliefs impact how they view others. I love to observe human psychology and this site provides a whole bunch of content in that regard.

 

[Grace2022]

Interesting that i can put one short reflection and it releases so much vitriole from visiting atheists.

Like someone else commented i wouldn't visit atheist forums. To just goad people.
Anyway atheists can be sure they do not have any effect on my faith. Nothing and nobody could do that.

I wish you all the peace of Jesus Christ. That peace that is beyond our understanding.

 

[bhsmte]

Interesting that i can put one short reflection and it releases so much vitriole from visiting atheists.

Like someone else commented i wouldn't visit atheist forums. To just goad people.
Anyway atheists can be sure they do not have any effect on my faith. Nothing and nobody could do that.

I wish you all the peace of Jesus Christ. That peace that is beyond our understanding.

Not sure this thread revealed what you think, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.