Ask a forty something Atheist

[ToBeLoved]

Because it's obvious that I'm not going to fit in here, I didn't come here for any other reason than to learn more about Christians views, and maybe try to give you a more positive impression of atheists.

You guys are very nice aetheists. You'll fit in fine, but expect people to think your mean until they get to know you a little.

group virtual hug

 

[ToBeLoved]

Fair enough. Hope it's been fun.

Why are you being mean?

 

[Spikey]

But many people believe that God answers prayer and provides conscience and other things. So you think statistically with all the people of faith, not just Christian are imagining it? The answer part, not the asking part.

I think that being honest, yes they are imagining it, I would put it down to wishful thinking.

 

[Spikey]

"Ask away, anything you would like to know, I will do my best to answer"

What is the gas quotient ratio in the third binary reduction chamber within the structural matrix theory?

Pass

 

[Radagast]

Why are you being mean?

I wasn't being mean. I meant something like "I understand your point of view, and I hope that at least some of your goals were achieved."

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think that being honest, yes they are imagining it, I would put it down to wishful thinking.

that's what I figured. It just seems odd that billions of people all think wishfully and think that there is a back and forth type of relationship. Seems to me to be too many for chance.

 

[Halbhh]

I was born and raised a Christian to missionary parents. I was home schooled, read the whole Bible many times, I had to memorize a lot it, we were always praying and on our "spiritual guard" and all that. I understand for some people some religious beliefs can be comforting. And that is fine, so long as they know it really is just a belief. I wouldn't want to take anyone's comfort away if it helped them and didn't harm anyone else.

However, I care deeply about what is reality or as close as we can get to it. So I cannot accept anything as "real" or "truth" without good evidence for it. But I'm actually happier, at immense peace and more fulfilled and hopeful, than I ever was when I believed I had Jesus and the holy ghost within me. ....

You should really like my posts. Really. I also escaped a religion that was fake, and like many people getting out into my own life, young and strong, became especially blissful/happy in my 20s. I began exploring all sorts of great stuff, much of it very good, new friendships, more and more love, dance, philosophy, late night discussions, music, meditation. I had an unusually happy young adulthood. I'm happier in a deeper way now though.

Why? In part because
"love your neighbor as yourself"
"forgive....seventy times seven"
"love your enemies"
are profound at life improving, even more than the best other things. I'm saying this because I've personally applied (into practice) several of the best other things.

 

[Sarah G]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to also answer. I think most people in unprogressive countries (for example, the Congo, the USA, Saudi Arabia, etc,) feel depressed, anxious, get easily addicted to things and so on, regardless of what they believe or don't believe. It is because of the general horrible society most people endure in these types of places.

I was born and raised a Christian to missionary parents. I was home schooled, read the whole Bible many times, I had to memorize a lot it, we were always praying and on our "spiritual guard" and all that. I understand for some people some religious beliefs can be comforting. And that is fine, so long as they know it really is just a belief. I wouldn't want to take anyone's comfort away if it helped them and didn't harm anyone else.

However, I care deeply about what is reality or as close as we can get to it. So I cannot accept anything as "real" or "truth" without good evidence for it. But I'm actually happier, at immense peace and more fulfilled and hopeful, than I ever was when I believed I had Jesus and the holy ghost within me. Although what one feels is not a good way to determine what is true and what is not. I have no belief in deities because no one can show they actually exist. If that happens, then I will accept whichever god and/or god's are shown to exist. Real easy.

While on a few occasions I am sad there is no perfect afterlife with our loved ones to be rewarded to us (although if you actually read holy books the afterlife talked about in them isn't very great). I am thrilled no one is going to be eternally tortured, punished with a possible ending to it, or in whichever way some writings say they will suffer. We can make heaven on Earth. That is what I try to do. We definitely have here and now.

Great response, thank you. I really appreciate this '' I understand for some people some religious beliefs can be comforting. And that is fine, so long as they know it really is just a belief. I wouldn't want to take anyone's comfort away if it helped them and didn't harm anyone else.''

I can see that not all atheists are as lonely, bitter, depressed, negative and anxious as my atheist friends, what a relief! They are my friends because I was all of those things when we met so most people in my reality are like that. We gravitate towards similar energy maybe? As misery tends to adore company they are often very negative when I try to be positive and they especially seem to despise the fact that I can find comfort in a belief system which cannot be proven. Not that I try to convert them or tell them they should change in any way just that the Christians they are familiar with are of the judgemental variety. I don't find it very open-minded of my open-minded atheist friends to disrespect faith and I sometimes feel like they are envious or bitter that I have found some peace and joy in life. That is why I asked the questions 'Do you wish you could believe?' and 'Do you envy the simple bliss of the believer?'. At times I have lost my faith in God and I missed it terribly and certainly envied those that had it. I would never dare ask my atheist friends those questions though!

Eternal conscious torment is not something I believe in. As God is all that is good and it is not possible that I am anything more than God when it comes to positive attributes then God must be more loving, more compassionate and more forgiving than I am. Therefore eternal conscious torment makes no sense to me.

I'm glad to learn that not all atheists are misery loving nay-sayers. I should find some more positive friends
You are living proof that atheists/humanists are often kinder than gold star Christians and I applaud you

 

[Spikey]

that's what I figured. It just seems odd that billions of people all think wishfully and think that there is a back and forth type of relationship. Seems to me to be too many for chance.

I don't think it's chance that there are so many, I think it's conditioning.
As children we are raised to believe in a God, which God is dependant upon our geographic location and our parents. This worldview is then reinforced at school and out in our wider communities, which means that as a child virtually everyone we trust is giving us the same message. Couple this with the comfort that religion seems to give, and I'm not surprised that so many people think this way.

 

[Par5]

I quite clearly said 'Many of the atheists I know or follow on social media'' not all atheists. I was (clearly to me) still referring to those friends when I talked about a dog eat dog reality.

I am glad for you that you are happy, dearest. It is fantastic that you do not suffer from morbid sentiments. It is lovely that you have been married for 48 years. I am sure that your wife is a very happy and lucky woman to have such a positive husband, content with the things money cannot buy. As Spikey started a thread inviting us to ask anything I figured he had a fairly thick skin and wasn't going to be easily offended. I had of course forgotten that other atheists might read my question and become offended. I am sorry that I caused you to become upset.

I can assure you that I have been around the block enough times to develop a thick enough skin to take constructive criticism, but having a thick skin has nothing to do with refusing to allow someone to criticise by telling lies. I don't believe you for one minute that you don't view all atheists in the way you described. The very fact that you asked Spikey, "...do you wish you could believe? To have that comfort, peace, hope and joy that can come with faith in a higher power, to never cry yourself to sleep in fear that you are on the verge of death, bankruptcy, homelessness, perpetual loneliness. Do you ever envy the simple bliss of the believer?" tells me that you believe because he doesn't have what you say you have, his life is full of all the negativity you described, otherwise why would you ask?
Saying and believing such things about atheists is something that Christians do a lot even though they have no idea the kind of life a person lives. It has gone way past the stage with me where I say those Christians are mistaken, I now call it for what it is, lying, pure and simple.
Oh, and one last thing, I am not your "dearest".

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't think it's chance that there are so many, I think it's conditioning.
As children we are raised to believe in a God, which God is dependant upon our geographic location and our parents. This worldview is then reinforced at school and out in our wider communities, which means that as a child virtually everyone we trust is giving us the same message. Couple this with the comfort that religion seems to give, and I'm not surprised that so many people think this way.

I can understand that looking at logic from the outside.

But what I am talking about are the spiritual aspects. God’s Word is pretty specific in that we are in relationship with God spiritually. Not just that we believe, attend church once a week and that’s that.

I’m sure you don’t think that any human condioning can hold up if we weren’t getting answers to prayers or when we seek peace that God guides us to that peace.

Jesus told us in scripture right before His death that He would send God Himself the Holy Spirit to reside in the hearts of each of His children. That Holy Spirit is real.

I think that is an aspect of Christianity that those who do not believe totally discount. They want to pretend that there is not God Himself residing in the heart of believers and that the relationship between us and God is not real. But it is.

There are promises in the Bible. It is not all about what God tells us to do. There is also God’s part. God Himself is held to a standard because God promises us He will always be with us. When we seek Him we will find Him. That when we pray He not only hears but answers. Now some answers to prayer might be no or even wait. But we are not stupid people in a relationship that has some communication, not audible usually but still. We hold God to His promises.

Does that make sense?

I would like to talk about how aetheists account for the spiritual. It is not made up. God comes through over and over.

 

[Spikey]

I can understand that looking at logic from the outside.

But what I am talking about are the spiritual aspects. God’s Word is pretty specific in that we are in relationship with God spiritually. Not just that we believe, attend church once a week and that’s that.

I’m sure you don’t think that any human condioning can hold up if we weren’t getting answers to prayers or when we seek peace that God guides us to that peace.

Jesus told us in scripture right before His death that He would send God Himself the Holy Spirit to reside in the hearts of each of Hos children. That Holy Spirit is real.

I would then ask, what about all the Christians who have lost their faith and became atheist? If those people were getting what you describe, how could they then disbelieve?

 

[Radagast]

It has gone way past the stage with me where I say those Christians are mistaken, I now call it for what it is, lying, pure and simple.
Oh, and one last thing, I am not your "dearest".

Well, at least you're friendly.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I would then ask, what about all the Christians who have lost their faith and became atheist? If those people were getting what you describe, how could they then disbelieve?

God has always given us free will and God doesn’t take away our free will when we become Christians.

People still choose whether to seek God and grow in relationship with Him or whether they choose to not hear and not do and go there own way.

Jesus said, ‘Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened’

 

[Spikey]

God has always given us free will and God doesn’t take away our free will when we become Christians.

People still choose whether to seek God and grow in relationship with Him or whether they choose to not hear and not do and go there own way.

Jesus said, ‘Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened’

But surely, if you believed that you have had a relationship with God, then there can be no way of being an atheist after that point.
Do you think the people I refer to never had a relationship with God in the first place?

 

[ToBeLoved]

But surely, if you believed that you have had a relationship with God, then there can be no way of being an atheist after that point.
Do you think the people I refer to never had a relationship with God in the first place?

Well it’s hard for me to speak for others but I think there are two situations probably going on.

1. Would be people who are what I refer to as backslidden. These people are what many would call saved. God’s Holy Spirit resides in their hearts and never leaves them, but the person distances themselves , their minds and desires from God’s ways. God continually calls them back to Him, but that can be overridden by free will and desire not for the things of God. Many times this is the type of person when they reach rock bottom, per se, and realizes their ways and choices have not given them the outcomes in life they thought they would have. Many times rock bottom takes people back to their faith to examine are Gods ways better and/or they seek God again.

2. People that never had faith and wanted to secure their eternal life through a means other than faith. Some think good works will do it, some think the Old Testament Law will do it, others just convive themselves in their mind that God will save all people eventually and grasp on to some philosophy that they like.

 

[Spikey]

Anyway... For anyone who may be interested, I have a dog called Charlie , two Guinea pigs called Chas and Dave and a fish called Bob.

 

[salt-n-light]

Ask away, anything you would like to know, I will do my best to answer

What your political view/stance in general? Would you describe yourself as democratic, liberalist, communist, fascist, nationalist, etc.? I'm not sure how the parliament works in terms of parties, nor if political views are defined within groups like how here in the US is..

 

[salt-n-light]

You opened a can of worms mate!

Doesn't have to be, there's a million questions you can ask a person.

 

[Spikey]

What your political view/stance in general? Would you describe yourself as democratic, liberalist, communist, fascist, nationalist, etc.? I'm not sure how the parliament works in terms of parties, nor if political views are defined within groups like how here in the US is..

I'm a socialist basically, I have voted for the labour party in every election that I have been eligible to vote.
I think my views are pretty liberal and hopefully pretty mainstream (here in the UK at least)
I voted leave in the EU referendum, purely because of strains on the economy brought about by Europe's inability to function as a viable unit. Red tape upon red tape swallowing up millions.

Anyway I'm left of centre, if that answers your question