Are we mixed with giants or angels ?

[ViaCrucis]

The Bible provides the approximate height of Goliath.
I posted it in my previous posts. 9'6" to 11' tall is definitely a giant. There have also been found many footprints in the geological record which indicate the presence of giants.
Evidence for Ancient Giants! in Racial Origins - Giants / Nephilim Forum

Only the Masoretic text gives Goliath that height, all of the older manuscripts give a significantly shorter height of about 6'8/6'9. The LXX, Josephus, and Dead Sea Scrolls agree on this point, the odd one out is the Masoretic text, the Masoretic height is possibly a scribal error; if I had to hazard speculation the error is probably technically pre-Masoretic given that the medieval Masoretes had a propensity for rigorous copying procedures; but given the unanimity of the ancient witnesses the shorter height is most probably the more accurate. It is also in keeping with known physical laws; a 9 or 10' tall human being would suffer from so many health problems that the notion that such a figure could be a warrior is completely too incredible, we would have to resort to a kind of deus ex machina to explain it away; which is no doubt where claims that Goliath, a "giant", must be a supernatural or partly supernatural being a descendant of half-angel beings--such introduces an element of assumption in order to explain way the incredible by making Goliath more than man. It's way too much of an assumption for me to take seriously.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Radrook]

Only the Masoretic text gives Goliath that height, all of the older manuscripts give a significantly shorter height of about 6'8/6'9. The LXX, Josephus, and Dead Sea Scrolls agree on this point, the odd one out is the Masoretic text, the Masoretic height is possibly a scribal error; if I had to hazard speculation the error is probably technically pre-Masoretic given that the medieval Masoretes had a propensity for rigorous copying procedures; but given the unanimity of the ancient witnesses the shorter height is most probably the more accurate. It is also in keeping with known physical laws; a 9 or 10' tall human being would suffer from so many health problems that the notion that such a figure could be a warrior is completely too incredible, we would have to resort to a kind of deus ex machina to explain it away; which is no doubt where claims that Goliath, a "giant", must be a supernatural or partly supernatural being a descendant of half-angel beings--such introduces an element of assumption in order to explain way the incredible by making Goliath more than man. It's way too much of an assumption for me to take seriously.

-CryptoLutheran

Your faith in the DSS is ill founded:


The Dead Sea Scrolls Are A Hoax

March 4, 1949
THE NEW YORK TIMES, March 4, 1949

* Dead Sea Scrolls a hoax?

Page 19 has half a column taken up with a report headed: "Bible Scroll 'Find' Suspected As Hoax" "Dr. Zeitlin of Dropsie College Splits With Other Scholars on Dead Sea Discovery". This is a report on the recently-found Dead Sea Scrolls and curious that this report focuses on a scholar who believes them to be a hoax, ending with: "...It seems that the entire find is not an important discovery, but possibly a hoax." (see images).
Are the Dead Sea Scrolls a hoax?... - RareNewspapers.com

Scholar Claims Dead Sea Scrolls 'Authors' Never Existed
Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

So thanx but no thanx. I will stick with the Masoretic.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

That's interesting, wonder if that is Gods way of giving them over to their own delusions. And wonder what would've happened or if the scene would change if they did not come back to tell of it, makes you wonder..........

The Near Death Experiences people come back with to report on are not completely consistent with each other, if we use them to try to construct the nature of the realms beyond this mortality. It is therefore clear that some, if not all, of what the individual perceives during such an experience is colored by what the individual brings to the experience. How can we rightly divide such things?

 

[JacksBratt]

The Near Death Experiences people come back with to report on are not completely consistent with each other, if we use them to try to construct the nature of the realms beyond this mortality. It is therefore clear that some, if not all, of what the individual perceives during such an experience is colored by what the individual brings to the experience. How can we rightly divide such things?

I agree that NDE's are inconsistent in the details.

What I do take from them are this... there are two places. One, extremely loving, wonderful, inviting and peaceful. To the extent that a woman, leaving young children behind, didn't even care to go back to these children she loved so much.
The other place is so lonely, dark, evil, terrifying and repulsive.

As for the continuity of what each person learned or took from the experience each one had............I'll take this..........You don't want to find yourself in door number 2.

 

[Solomons Porch]

The Near Death Experiences people come back with to report on are not completely consistent with each other, if we use them to try to construct the nature of the realms beyond this mortality. It is therefore clear that some, if not all, of what the individual perceives during such an experience is colored by what the individual brings to the experience. How can we rightly divide such things?

It is complicated no doubt. But with a child that died young in a car accident, goes to heaven, returns to earth, saw Jesus and met his younger sister, that he was never aware of, returns to earth and tells his mother of his younger sister. He was too young to know this and the mother never spoke of a miscarriage, nor did she even know the gender. NOW that is amazing. Which leads to "what someone brings to the table" and in this case, this kid had nothing to bring, he was too young and had no knowledge of a miscarried child.

I agree that NDE's are inconsistent in the details.

What I do take from them are this... there are two places. One, extremely loving, wonderful, inviting and peaceful. To the extent that a woman, leaving young children behind, didn't even care to go back to these children she loved so much.
The other place is so lonely, dark, evil, terrifying and repulsive.

As for the continuity of what each person learned or took from the experience each one had............I'll take this..........You don't want to find yourself in door number 2.

Definitely not door #2

 

[Radrook]

To say that we are mixed with angels genetically is to say that God failed to prevent what the flood was intended to prevent-genetic contamination of mankind via demonic interference.

Fortunately the Bible tells us that those spirits who attempted such an abnormality were immediately restrained after the flood in order to prevent a repeat.

Jude 1:6 ►
New International Version
And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling--these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Your faith in the DSS is ill founded:


The Dead Sea Scrolls Are A Hoax





Scholar Claims Dead Sea Scrolls 'Authors' Never Existed
Breaking News, Analysis, Politics, Blogs, News Photos, Video, Tech Reviews - TIME.com

So thanx but no thanx. I will stick with the Masoretic.

Noting that your first link provides absolutely nothing but assertion; and the second link only presents the argument that the Qumran community wasn't Essene. Your entire post also seems willing to ignore that I also mentioned the LXX and Josephus. It would seem that in your enthusiasm to defend the late Masoretic reading you offered nothing but a baseless assertion.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Solomons Porch]

To say that we are mixed with angels genetically is to say that God failed to prevent what the flood was intended to prevent-genetic contamination of mankind via demonic interference.

Fortunately the Bible tells us that those spirits who attempted such an abnormality were immediately restrained after the flood in order to prevent a repeat.

What about this Numbers 13:33 ?? your thoughts
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

 

[Radrook]

What about this Numbers 13:33 ?? your thoughts
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."

I have always understood that report from the spies sent to investigate Cannaan as an exaggeration based on fear.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

Noting that your first link provides absolutely nothing but assertion; and the second link only presents the argument that the Qumran community wasn't Essene. Your entire post also seems willing to ignore that I also mentioned the LXX and Josephus. It would seem that in your enthusiasm to defend the late Masoretic reading you offered nothing but a baseless assertion.

-CryptoLutheran

And even if the community of the essenes is false, those scrolls do contain copies of the scriptures that clearly date to times before Jesus. We can't just dismiss them as worthless, they are evidence about the text of the Bible.

 

[ViaCrucis]

And even if the community of the essenes is false, those scrolls do contain copies of the scriptures that clearly date to times before Jesus. We can't just dismiss them as worthless, they are evidence about the text of the Bible.

Absolutely. The identification of the Qumran community as being Essene has always been tentative--it's not actually clear that the Qumran community was Essene; so whether or not they were Essenes is moot--there was still a community that produced a number of texts, including copies of biblical texts, which were then stored in amphora and put into the caves near Qumran.

The claim that the DSS are, in their entirety, a hoax is an unfounded assertion; and the Times article in no way backs up that assertion, it merely states that there are those in the scholarly community who question the the identity of the Qumran community as being Essene--that does absolutely nothing in regard to the content and reality of the scrolls found near Qumran since the identification of the Qumran community as Essene has always been conjecture.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Andrew4jesus]

I have to say the replies on here have been fantastic, it's really given me some food for thought. Is there any reference to people, giants or angels having double rows of teeth?

 

[Sanoy]

I have to say the replies on here have been fantastic, it's really given me some food for thought. Is there any reference to people, giants or angels having double rows of teeth?

Not from scripture or extra biblical stuff afaik. The double rows of teeth comes from the Giant Newspaper Clippings * that were part of early American History. The Smithsonian Journal had some too.

"One full skeleton with double rows of teeth, buried alongside a gigantic axe, referred to in the report as a “gigantic savage.” The skeleton—with a colossal skull—fell apart after exhumation, so an exact height/head circumference was not reported, Amelia Island, Florida, 1875." (As recorded by Dr. Augustus Mitchell, Annual Report of the Board of Regents of the Smithsonian Institution Showing the Operations, Expenditures, and Condition of the Institution for the Year 1875 (Washington, DC: Government Printing Office; Smithsonian Institution), 395.

[* It's best to ignore any Archeological dig pictures you see of giant skeletons on that link. The elongated skulls you see are real though.]

 

[JacksBratt]

To say that we are mixed with angels genetically is to say that God failed to prevent what the flood was intended to prevent-genetic contamination of mankind via demonic interference.

Fortunately the Bible tells us that those spirits who attempted such an abnormality were immediately restrained after the flood in order to prevent a repeat.

My view is that it was the angels that were restrained. Not spirits.

 

[JacksBratt]

I have always understood that report from the spies sent to investigate Cannaan as an exaggeration based on fear.

I find that people who hear or read things in the bible, that seem beyond our present norm, tend to write them off as metaphor, allegorical or exaggeration.

Personally, I have not issues with the description of these giants being fact.

Noah chose wives for his sons. These women were not of "perfect in their generations".

This is where the second, smaller, wave of giants came from. The line of Canaan...
Which is the line of the Canaanites.

 

[JacksBratt]

Not from scripture or extra biblical stuff afaik. The double rows of teeth comes from the Giant Newspaper Clippings * that were part of early American History. The Smithsonian Journal had some too.


[* It's best to ignore any Archeological dig pictures you see of giant skeletons on that link. The elongated skulls you see are real though.]

Yes, unfortunately, some group held a contest in which the best photoshopped image would win. This has polluted the library of images of real photographs of giants and those that are hoaxes.

The sad thing is that there were and are real giant skelletons that were found and are being found all around the world. Peru is a real treasure chest of significant non human skulls of massive size.

The fact that this evidence of giant races is solid proof of biblical scripture, combined with the fact that it totally debunks evolution, has been a motivator in the corruption, destruction, and denial of the authenticity of these beings.

 

[Watchman Irvin]

Could we be mixed with giants and angels? And when the scales fall will we see our true selves ?

In Genesis 6 a story is told about the sons of God that fell from heaven and mated with human women. These offspring from the angelic human union where a hybrid species half angelic and half human called the Nephilim. Some of these beings became giants as tall as 15 to 20 feet. Some became the heroes of old lore, the Greek gods, Egyptian gods, ect. The great flood destroyed them but some came back after the flood. Today some say that the Nephilim are still around, some call them aliens but they are not extra terrestrial beings, they are interdimensional. There's more truth out there but you have to sincerely seek it out.

 

[ViaCrucis]

In Genesis 6 a story is told about the sons of God that fell from heaven and mated with human women.

Note the part in bold: Not what the text says.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Watchman Irvin]

Note the part in bold: Not what the text says.

-CryptoLutheran

I added that so the reader can get more clarity. It's backed up by other verses in the bible included in Jude, 2 Peter, and extra biblical books such as Enoch.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I added that so the reader can get more clarity. It's backed up by other verses in the bible included in Jude, 2 Peter, and extra biblical books such as Enoch.

Neither Jude nor 2 Peter say that angels came out of heaven and had sex with human women.

-CryptoLutheran