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Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

mourningdove~

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Joni's inspirational.

Joni Erickson Tada is an amazing woman of God.
She is an amazing woman of faith.

God has used her story to bless so many persons ... disabled and otherwise, persons struggling with faith. She has inspired so many persons with her words of faith, the life she has lived. God uses her story to give struggling persons hope. And it does.

Joni's story is one that shows the path to take 'when the healing does not come'.
It is a walk of faith, totally dependent upon God.

Joni Erickson Tada is not a "wolf" that is "attacking the church".
To think that of her and God's ministry working thru her life, is to believe a lie.
 
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mourningdove~

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Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it.

It would appear that you have found one, though I do find myself wondering now what is the 'edifying' purpose in initiating threads for the purpose of amicable disagreements?

... no need to answer; but I am seriously wondering, given the ineffectiveness of this thread, except for it to encourage disagreement amongst the membership.
 
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Brad D.

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Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

Been a couple of days since I visited this thread my you all of have been busy Ha!

Anyway I have scanned through, but forgive me if I haven't taken every thought in. But I have tried to weigh what others are saying so my own conclusions as to the OPs original questions is as follows.

(1) In regards to Limits.

I think we have all agreed there are no limits as to what God can do if He so desires or if He still heals which is most definitely the affirmative. The disagreement comes as to is that His explicit will every single time, what emphasis we should place on that and if that is the exclusive reason He came. Is that what He primarily focuses on today and is that what He is primarily interested in doing?

Some seem to say yes. I say He is after so much more than just the preservation of our earthly Bodies, He certainly made that abundantly clear in the scriptures don't you think? But it seems others imply we would live forever now if only we believed. Hmmmm? I guess there would be no reason for His return then and restoring creation unto Himself. Which leads me to the second question.

(2) What do we tell people as it relates to healing?

Tell them when Christ walked this earth healing was a huge part of His ministry, no doubt, He still heals today, but here is the kicker. Consider this for a moment. Out of all those people He healed what percentage of them did it change their heart? Almost none! 99.9999% of them when it mattered most chose Barabbas over Christ. At the end of the day the cry of their heart was to yell, "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!"

Healing then helped established who He was, but not why He came. Healing could touch the condition of their body, but it was going to take a far deeper and more miraculous work than that to touch the condition of their souls. He came for the condition of our hearts, not the condition of our bodies.

The Spiritual fact was established when He was here that man was far more concerned about their earthly lives than their spiritual ones. Christ was forever pointing to the condition and need of their heart. But man was continuing to seek a Messiah for the sake of their own lives on this earth. For that they rejected Him And for that He was grieved. As He approached Jerusalem He wept over the city, and said, if you even you had only known on this day what would bring you peace - but now it is hidden from your eyes (Luke 19:42).

Job has been mentioned a lot and rightfully so. The Lord said of Job, "There is none like him on earth, a blameless and upright man, one who fears God and shuns evil." We would all be so grateful to Christ if the same were said about us. But even he was brought through the fiery ordeal to a deeper knowledge of God, and a deeper emptying of self.

Who amongst us would not agree that the Job after the ordeal was far more impacted than before, was deeply and immensely dealt with, was brought to a profound humility and understanding of God and His ways as he never had, bringing him to an even deeper faith and understanding of who He was. This was all done BEFORE Job was healed and restored. The fire had touched the real need in Jobs life, and when that was accomplished the Lord did bless Job and restore His physical needs. The emphasis far more on the former than ever would be on the latter.

So when I encounter people in some sort of Crisis this is the first thing I try to pray through. What is the Lord after here? What is the real need? How would you want me to pray for this person? What would best serve your purpose in this person's life precious Lord? I would tell them I am going to pray that way. That is the way I am going to seek the Lord for their life. I would share with them all the reasons above I just gave for doing so. And I would tell them that after I do this if I still come away with the impression to pray for their immediate healing I will be the first to come and lay hands on them to do so. I would tell them the reasons I take these steps and this approach is it is the way I know to love them through Christ the best. And then I would be with them through it, continuing to encourage them in the fire, rather than getting angry at God for not taking Him out of it if He deems it wise not to do so.

These are the things I think He really talks about in the Bible. I do not succumb to a theology that says it is the Lord's implicit will to heal someone of everything 100% of the time immediately and the only reason there are any sick people in the world is the somehow Satanic work of the devil in people like me who just don't believe enough. Hmmm are we already then in the ages to come one wonders? Don't you think there are some things to yet work out before this is true?

I think that theology is puffed up in pride, a pride that is willing to walk out of one of these vets rooms who we have sent to get their bodies blown up and say your leg would grow back if it were up to me and my walk in Christ, but unfortunately due to your unbelief and the unbelief of others it will not. That is staggering to me. Astounding really. And it is me who needs to repent?

Well it will all get sorted out in the end. There is no doubt about that at least. In the meantime, I am at tremendous peace. The peace that transcends all understanding. Blessings and prayers to you all.
 
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Carl Emerson

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There is a distinct link between sickness and it's author - Satan. That is plainly shown in scripture.

What i am saying is that Paul's thorn was not a sickness - that my friend is supported by context as shown and, as you pointed out - the words are different between the spirit of infirmity (Astheneia) and messenger of Satan (angelos).

Again, there is not one person in the New Testament who came to God and asked for healing who was not healed.

Look at your own reference in Luke 13

10 Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. 11 And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up. 12 But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, “Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity.” 13 And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.

14 But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, “There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day.”

15 The Lord then answered him and said, “Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it? 16 So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound—think of it—for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?
Four things:

1) spirit of infirmity - Asthenieia - not angelos (which is what Paul was speaking of).
2) Why did Jesus heal her - it was her right as a daughter of Abraham (Paul was a son of Abraham - same covenant, same rights)
3) The woman was healed, not told my grace is sufficient as Paul was.
4) The woman's infirmity was plainly stated - so was Paul's, but no sickness was mentioned in Paul's

Two totally different words, two totally different outcomes.

I hear your strong opinion.

What then was the nature of Paul's condition?

It seems Paul was not healed to keep him humble.
 
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Always in His Presence

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I hear your strong opinion.

What then was the nature of Paul's condition?

It seems Paul was not healed to keep him humble.

The nature of Paul's condition is found in 2 Cor 11 as already shown and is not a sickness. People who are not sick do not need to be healed.

It's not a 'strong opinion', it is very plainly shown in scripture.
 
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jiminpa

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Thank you for sharing what you have. It helps me to better understand your viewpoint as we have engaged in this discussion.

I am very sorry for your loss. Two very close family members of mine are both currently battling serious cancers, and so I have personally come to know the tenacious enemy that is the disease of cancer. Battling cancer is a tough battle, even for those of the greatest faith.

Believing about healing as you do, I can understand why you would be so angry and disappointed with everyone you believe does not exhibit the faith you believe is lacking. Fortunately for me, though, I do not believe as you do.
I'm angry, not because I feel let down, but because I see God's good being called bad, and Satan's bad being called good, and because unbelief is robbing the world and the church of what Jesus has to offer.
 
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Carl Emerson

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The nature of Paul's condition is found in 2 Cor 11 as already shown and is not a sickness. People who are not sick do not need to be healed.

It's not a 'strong opinion', it is very plainly shown in scripture.

Personally I don't consider your thesis at all convincing.

Have a great day.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Been going round and round about this for 20 years. Very few people change their minds.
Your opinion is formed by two things.
1 The word of God.
2 Your image of Who God is and what He is like.

Everything else is superficial and irrelevant.
In the end, be it unto you according to what you believe.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Been going round and round about this for 20 years. Very few people change their minds.
Your opinion is formed by two things.
1 The word of God.
2 Your image of Who God is and what He is like.

Everything else is superficial and irrelevant.
In the end, be it unto you according to what you believe.

maybe there is a No. 3 - Your experience with God shapes your theology as well I think.

Maybe that is what you meant by No. 2 ???
 
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jiminpa

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Been going round and round about this for 20 years. Very few people change their minds.
Your opinion is formed by two things.
1 The word of God.
2 Your image of Who God is and what He is like.

Everything else is superficial and irrelevant.
In the end, be it unto you according to what you believe.
Ideally, 1 forms 2. I'm not there yet myself, but that's the ideal.

Out of curiosity, do you care to share your view of how that applies to the OP?
 
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ARBITER01

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Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

Limitations?

I would say the only limitation would be us. Who can GOD operate through? Is a person available that He can utilize for a given situation?

While there is more than one way for GOD to heal people, I do think He desires to do so more often by the gifts of healings than we realize, and that takes a really dedicated person in holiness.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Ideally, 1 forms 2. I'm not there yet myself, but that's the ideal.

Out of curiosity, do you care to share your view of how that applies to the OP?
Ultimately it is our role to believe that God is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. That means it is not about me and my journey or development. It is about Him, His integrity. His benevolence. His faithfulness. His unchanging nature. My job is to believe in Him and His word. That is all. I do that, and I please Him. Believe Him to the end. Even if the promise never shows up. He always heals me. I believe that, and I profess that because it is more important to please Him than it is to be healed. I pray I remain faithful to Him and His word until the end. The Lord is good, and His mercy endures forever. Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and forget not all His benefits; he givens all my sins. He heals all my diseases. I really have no choice but to stand on that. We are all at the mercy of His unfailing word. :)
 
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mourningdove~

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... Your experience with God shapes your theology as well I think.

I very much believe this is so, also.

For example:
When we know and believe deeply in our heart that God loves us, we can know and also believe that all that He sends or allows into our lives will ultimately be used for our good, and for the good of others.


... that 'all' includes sickness, and yes, suffering, too.

God's Love for us is unquestionable.

However, until our faith is tested, we sometimes do not yet know how great is His Love and Mercy and Faithfulness towards us.
 
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Guojing

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Ultimately it is our role to believe that God is and that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. That means it is not about me and my journey or development. It is about Him, His integrity. His benevolence. His faithfulness. His unchanging nature. My job is to believe in Him and His word. That is all. I do that, and I please Him. Believe Him to the end. Even if the promise never shows up. He always heals me. I believe that, and I profess that because it is more important to please Him than it is to be healed. I pray I remain faithful to Him and His word until the end. The Lord is good, and His mercy endures forever. Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and forget not all His benefits; he givens all my sins. He heals all my diseases. I really have no choice but to stand on that. We are all at the mercy of His unfailing word. :)

Out of curiosity, if you meet someone who claims the promise in Genesis 15:5 for himself, and believe that he will be the father of many nations, what would your reaction be?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Out of curiosity, if you meet someone who claims the promise in Genesis 15:5 for himself, and believe that he will be the father of many nations, what would your reaction be?
Obviously for Abram.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?
The answer is to tell them to remain true to God. Just as the saints in Heb 11 believed for the promise even up to death, and some never received it. And this was counted as righteousness, and it pleased God! So stay true to God and His word. Continue to believe and confess it.
Never deny Him. Even unto death.
That is what I would tell them.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Limitations?

I would say the only limitation would be us. Who can GOD operate through? Is a person available that He can utilize for a given situation?

While there is more than one way for GOD to heal people, I do think He desires to do so more often by the gifts of healings than we realize, and that takes a really dedicated person in holiness.

I have seen Him heal spontaneously and I expect Him to heal whether I am involved or not.
What He wont do is share His Glory with another.
 
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ARBITER01

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I have seen Him heal spontaneously and I expect Him to heal whether I am involved or not.
What He wont do is share His Glory with another.

GOD has operated healing through many of us, including me, but this is not about us is it Carl?

What we don't have happening is the quality and quantity of healing that was happening through Jesus and the apostles.

We have the whole body of Christ unable to operate in the gifts of healings like Jesus currently. Not a single Christian is able to be used by GOD on a regular day to day basis with this gift.

Hmmmmm,...... I wonder why.
 
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