Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[Strong in Him]

I wonder if the reason we dont see frequent healings and/or even miracles is we have lost true touch with the Spirit.

Do we need to see frequent healings and miracles?

Jesus and the Apostles operated under the full sway of the Spirit. Well Jesus did for sure. I always speak of the man in Acts 3. Jesus would have undoubtedly walked by him many times but never healed him, why? Because it wasnt the right time. The man in John 5 was lame for 38 years, yet it was always the Fathers will to heal him. Just wasnt the right time. The blind man had been born blind, yet Jesus didnt heal him until a certain time. Lazarus was sick and died. Jesus could have prevented that death, Jesus could have called him forth before he began to decay but that wasnt the Fathers plan.

So I wonder if we get so caught up on healing is (as one person put it) "on demand" that we forget the other very important part of that equation, working within the will (which includes the timing) of the Father.

And for some, that timing may not be until after death.
Death is the ultimate healing - no more pain, tears, suffering; only wholeness.

 

[ARBITER01]

My reference was to Paul - consider the number of years as an apostle and the recorded healings, miracles - they were not happening every day.

And I will say it again, Paul is not our example, Jesus is. Especially when it comes to ministries.

We've had people in the past demonstrate a ministry of the gifts of healings. All anyone has to do is look into the writings of Maria Woodworth Etter, and Smith Wigglesworth. Those two individuals, probably Maria the most, demonstrated an actual ministry in that gift.

It can be done as people have obtained it in the past, but as for right now, GOD is not moving through anyone like that.

 

[Strong in Him]

And I will say it again, Paul is not our example, Jesus is. Especially when it comes to ministries.

We've had people in the past demonstrate a ministry of the gifts of healings. All anyone has to do is look into the writings of Maria Woodworth Etter, and Smith Wigglesworth. Those two individuals, probably Maria the most, demonstrated an actual ministry in that gift.

It can be done as people have obtained it in the past, but as for right now, GOD is not moving through anyone like that.

Maybe he's not giving as many people the gift of healing?

 

[ARBITER01]

Maybe he's not giving as many people the gift of healing?

I think it is little more complicated than that though.

I think the gifts are a package deal like the fruit was. When we were born again we received the fruit of The Spirit, all of it, not part of it. I feel the gifts are the same way, we receive them all when we are filled with The Spirit.

Some of the gifts work rather easy, some are more hit and miss, and some can be witnessed as being there but they do not really manifest at all.

For instance, The Lord witnessed the gifts of healings in me again recently, but it does not manifest on any regular basis. GOD has used that gift through me at times to bring healing to some people, but never in any frequency like we read about Jesus.

Now do I just accept that and go about my every day life thinking that is all there is and is ever going to be? Not at all. I want to reach for more, and I think the answer is here,...

Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Isaiah. And he opened the book, and found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, Because he anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor: He hath sent me to proclaim release to the captives, And recovering of sight to the blind, To set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord.

If The Holy Spirit is resting upon us in power, then He operates the gifts as The Father desires.

 

[Blade]

Maybe he's not giving as many people the gift of healing?

Now talking about the "gift" He does still give that and use believes all the time. Each believer has the right to use HIs name as Peter and John said that name faith in that name healed him. We all should be casting out demons speaking in new tongues....laying hands on the sick and they shall recover. Not maybe not might but GOD not man GOD said shall recover. Its why you don't walk by how you feel or what you see. We walk by faith.

Did not when Christ walked this earth say "your faith has made you whole". The woman that kept saying if she just touches His clothes she will be healed. Then when she touched just His clothes what did Christ say? Get this "WHO touched me". Faith.. He said there is nothing impossible to them that believe. What ever you desire when you pray ..get this.. believe you receive it and you shall have it. Christ said what ever you ask the Father in my name He will do it. What ever you ask me I will do it. Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

We read all that then ask what is faith again? Faith' means trust, confidence, assurance, and belief ”now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” We are not gods but we are made in His image and our Father calls those things that be not as though they were HELLO FAITH! Just exactly what God through Christ said to us. It ALWAYS works when we pray ask believe we receive because we asked according to what is IS written and it lines up with the word of God.

What each believer has to figure out on their own is NOT what some other believer says about Gods word which in its self is very wise but I need to find it. See I have been told I talked belief like some other group. So I show them my bible that my parents first got me. Man I circled so many verses that just would not stop popping out so to speak. I found when ever I just believed and never gave it another thought just believed what HE said in His word He always answers and it to this day has never been no. Why? Because I pray whats written and God can not go against His own word. If He said it He will do it.

 

[Strong in Him]

Now talking about the "gift" He does still give that and use believes all the time. Each believer has the right to use HIs name as Peter and John said that name faith in that name healed him.

Yes, we do.
But we can't ask for anything and tack "in Jesus' name" onto the end of the prayer. We need to ask according to his will.

We all should be casting out demons speaking in new tongues....laying hands on the sick and they shall recover.

Why?

Not maybe not might but GOD not man GOD said shall recover.

Well then, in that case, God would heal everyone.
Yet he doesn't.
David Watson died, even though many, including John Wimber, were praying for him.
Jennifer Rees Larcombe absolutely believed that if you just declared in faith that you were healed, then you would be. That was before she had encephalitis, died and was brought back and spent 8 years in a wheelchair. God healed her miraculously, yes - in HIS time ad HIS way.
Joni is still in a wheelchair - many prayed for, and over, her.

Did not when Christ walked this earth say "your faith has made you whole".

To some, yes - not everyone.

Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.

Well then, you have a dilemma - because it isn't always.
I wonder how long people have been praying - in Jesus' name - for world peace?
Christians have been asking for 2000 years that Christ would return.
We sometimes pray for sick people, in Christ's name, and they die.
It's nit a magic formula.

We read all that then ask what is faith again? Faith' means trust, confidence, assurance, and belief ”now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” We are not gods but we are made in His image and our Father calls those things that be not as though they were HELLO FAITH! Just exactly what God through Christ said to us. It ALWAYS works when we pray ask believe we receive because we asked according to what is IS written and it lines up with the word of God.

I can assure you that I have been prayed for many times by people who say that; I still am sometimes.
I have no doubt that God heals and can heal immediately, because he healed me. But a number of Christians have prayed for something for me, declared they had faith that it would happen, and it didn't.
If you're saying that healing is always guaranteed, all Christians should be well, healed, never sick. In fact, we'd have non believers coming to Jesus just for his healing - just as some used to when he was on earth, in fact.

If He said it He will do it.

Yes.
And if he's said that he will heal everyone every time someone prays, he will - or would.
But that's not been my experience.
My experience - that I know has been shared by others - has been that when I've stopped seeking God for healing, telling him he has to act in this way through this person; then, he has healed.
HE got all the glory then - not MY faith, MY prayer, X who has an amazing gift. GOD got all the glory. He acted in a way no one would have expected, just as he often did in Scripture.

And if we don't see immediate, physical healing?
God knows what he is doing, is with us in all circumstances and IN them we are more than conquerors. As you said, we live by faith.
See an amazing miracle, and it's quite easy to believe. What about believing even if you don't see?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So, we cannot claim that promise, even though it can be found in scripture, because it was specifically for Abram.

So what other promises of God can we not believe Him for?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yes, we do.
But we can't ask for anything and tack "in Jesus' name" onto the end of the prayer. We need to ask according to his will.

Jesus was asked only one time about His will to heal and He answered ‘I am willing’.

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus was asked only one time about His will to heal and He answered ‘I am willing’.

But that doesn't mean that he will heal someone the moment they ask, or even at all. Otherwise all Christians would be well and healed.
I have not met anyone who enjoys being sick and/or disabled.
If God always wants to heal, and the sick person will almost certainly want that too - it would happen. Every time.
We wouldn't have to think of ways to try to get people into church; they'd be beating the door down to try to access healing.

 

[Always in His Presence]

But that doesn't mean that he will heal someone the moment they ask, or even at all. Otherwise all Christians would be well and healed.
I have not met anyone who enjoys being sick and/or disabled.
If God always wants to heal, and the sick person will almost certainly want that too - it would happen. Every time.
We wouldn't have to think of ways to try to get people into church; they'd be beating the door down to try to access healing.

All of Jesus' healing were not instantaneous.

Example Matt 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said to her, “O woman, great is your faith! Let it be to you as you desire.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Luke 17:14 So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.
​

Jesus had to pray for a man twice for him to be healed:

Mark 8:23 So He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town. And when He had spit on his eyes and put His hands on him, He asked him if he saw anything.​

24 And he looked up and said, “I see men like trees, walking.”

25 Then He put His hands on his eyes again and made him look up. And he was restored and saw everyone clearly.
​

One time a man had to do something first:

John 9:And He said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which is translated, Sent). So he went and washed, and came back seeing.​

Same with the Apostles:

Acts 16:18 But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour.​

Additionally there is no place in the New Testament that records someone asking for healing who was told no - or wait - or it is not God's will - or you will be healed when you die.

 

[Always in His Presence]

We cannot base the truth of the Word of God based on man's effectiveness in ministering it.

Mark 9:17 Then one of the crowd answered and said, “Teacher, I brought You my son, who has a mute spirit. 18 And wherever it seizes him, it throws him down; he foams at the mouth, gnashes his teeth, and becomes rigid. So I spoke to Your disciples, that they should cast it out, but they could not.”

Just because the disciples could not heal the child did not mean it was not Gods will to heal him. Which He did.

 

[Guojing]

So what other promises of God can we not believe Him for?

As you said, those promises that are not given to you.

Your doctrine will decide which are those.

It is just that everyone agrees Genesis 15:5 is only for Abram, and Matthew 19:28 is only for the 12

 

[ARBITER01]

But that doesn't mean that he will heal someone the moment they ask, or even at all. Otherwise all Christians would be well and healed.
I have not met anyone who enjoys being sick and/or disabled.
If God always wants to heal, and the sick person will almost certainly want that too - it would happen. Every time.

We wouldn't have to think of ways to try to get people into church; they'd be beating the door down to try to access healing.

Agreed. The power of GOD operating would unload those traditional churches into that Spirit-filled anointed one.

But I don't think most people want anything more than they have already, so we don't see true healing and working of miracles ministries in the body.

 

[Strong in Him]

All of Jesus' healing were not instantaneous.

I know.

Additionally there is no place in the New Testament that records someone asking for healing who was told no - or wait - or it is not God's will - or you will be healed when you die.

There is no record, either, of Jesus saying "just positively confess your healing until you receive it", but some people teach that this is what should happen. "Still got symptoms? Jesus said that you HAVE been healed, so who are you going to believe? Him, or what your body is telling you is true?"

And just because people were always, and miraculously, healed then, doesn't mean they will be now.
Jesus came to die for our sins and reconcile us to God.
He also came to show what God was like. In the OT, people had to communicate with God via prophets and it was believed that if anyone saw God, they would die. Ordinary people may have felt that God was remote; only accessible to a few. Until John the Baptist, there had been around 400 years without any prophets or words from the Lord at all.
Then Jesus came. His miracles showed people that a) God loved and cared about them and b) that he was who he said that he was.

Of course God loves and cares for us today, and of course he can heal.
But our faith shouldn't be dependant on these things. We have, and know, FAR more than the people of Jesus' day. We have the cross, the resurrection and the Holy Spirit who can come to us and live in us.
We have the testimonies of thousands, if not millions, of Christians. We have countless Bible resources, and every opportunity to learn who Jesus is and be reconciled to God.

We should not need miracles to point us to God and show us that God loves us and is with us. As someone has also correctly said; in Scripture, miracles did not always produce faith - not long lasting faith and trust anyway. Look at the Hebrews in the wilderness. They had seen 10 plagues in Egypt, crossed the Red Sea which parted for them, received manna from heaven, clothes which never wore out, saw God's glory at Sinai and been delivered from their enemies - yet they still complained, doubted and didn't trust.
That God is merciful, gracious, loving, doesn't give up on us and gives his Spirit who lives IN us; all of these are miracles. That hardened criminals can be born again, people from other faiths find God, avowed atheists become sincere believers, are miracles.
Some people are healed immediately and miraculously by God, some are healed more slowly and through doctors. And it is a fact that some are not physically healed at all in this life. Whatever "formula" people come up with for healing, whatever verses they produce to show that God will always heal - some Christians are NOT healed, remain sick or disabled or die. David Watson, an evangelist, died from cancer, and he had hundreds of people praying for him, as well as some telling him that he was already healed.

If it was always God's will that a Christian should be physically healed and in good health, they would be. If physical healing was the most important thing, God would always heal.

 

[Strong in Him]

But I don't think most people want anything more than they have already, so we don't see true healing and working of miracles ministries in the body.

Not in my experience.
People want healing from their illnesses and healing for their loved ones. Almost all of us would reach for a pain killer to give relief from a headache. People who have got serious illnesses, or who have been given news of a life changing condition, may research cures, treatments, supplements or anything to feel better. Christians may seek out those with healing ministries, go on retreats, fast and pray.
Non believers may not want to believe and will almost never go to church, but still ask chaplains, Christians and clergy to "say one for me", or make a prayer request.
Generally speaking, people do not accept illness.

Besides which, such a statement seems to put the blame onto the sick person. As though God cannot heal because of their attitude or beliefs; God's power is dependent on us.

 

[Always in His Presence]

If it was always God's will that a Christian should be physically healed and in good health, they would be. If physical healing was the most important thing, God would always heal.

There is the difference between our beliefs. BTW thank you for being so patient with me and your well thought out replies.

In regards to the comment above.

I believe Salvation is the most important thing. Salvation was bought and paid for by Jesus Christ through His death, burial and resurrection.

I believe it is God's will that all mankind would repent and come into Salvation - that is God's will on the earth - yet many will not.

I believe that it is God's will that we, as His children, live righteous and holy lives - yet some do not.

I believe that it is God's will that we live in peace - yet some do not

I could go on, but I think that shows where I am going. So, keeping with the topic of healing - is there any instance in Scripture showing that the will of God was shown to heal people and they did not get healed?

Yes.

Luke 5:17 Now it happened on a certain day, as He was teaching, that there were Pharisees and teachers of the law sitting by, who had come out of every town of Galilee, Judea, and Jerusalem. And the power of the Lord was present to heal them.
​

Here is a house filled with people, the Word plainly states "the power of the Lord was present to heal them". The will of God was that they would be healed (that is why God's power was there), Jesus filled with the Holy Spirit was there and in fact healed a man right in the middle of them. Yet, not one of them was healed.

​

 

[ARBITER01]

Not in my experience.
People want healing from their illnesses and healing for their loved ones. Almost all of us would reach for a pain killer to give relief from a headache. People who have got serious illnesses, or who have been given news of a life changing condition, may research cures, treatments, supplements or anything to feel better. Christians may seek out those with healing ministries, go on retreats, fast and pray.
Non believers may not want to believe and will almost never go to church, but still ask chaplains, Christians and clergy to "say one for me", or make a prayer request.
Generally speaking, people do not accept illness.

Besides which, such a statement seems to put the blame onto the sick person. As though God cannot heal because of their attitude or beliefs; God's power is dependent on us.

I'm not talking about people who need healing, I'm talking about other Christians who are comfortable where they are at, who won't seek more from GOD.

It takes a real dedicated person to reach for the greater gifts from GOD, hence why we don't see such ministries currently in His body.

In some Pentecostal churches, people may have a ministry with their gift of tongues or their gift of prophesying, etc, but they won't go farther than that to obtain a ministry in the gifts of healings. Receiving ministries like that doesn't happen overnight with GOD, there is a price to pay and it seems most people nowadays just won't go through the trials.

There is always more with GOD,.... if you want it.

 

[ARBITER01]

Just as a side note,..... I think people get confused when I say you need a ministry with a gift.

I can't go into a service and begin praying in tongues out loud before everyone expecting an interpretation from someone else. That wouldn't be The Holy Spirit,.... it would be me.

It has to be The Holy Spirit operating the gift,..... that makes it a ministry unto the body of Christ. When it is The Holy Spirit, it edifies that church, that local body.

Same way with the gifts of healings, it requires The Holy Spirit operating the gift,... ie a ministry. Only then does it edify the body,... people are healed.

In the same fashion,.... if I get in front of people and try to operate the gifts of healings through my own personal faith, it will fail. 9 times out of 10 that would be only a hit and miss type of result. Why? Because it would be me trying to operate the gift instead of The Holy Spirit.

If the glory is going to be GOD's,... then it is going to be His decision and His work/operation.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm not talking about people who need healing, I'm talking about other Christians who are comfortable where they are at, who won't seek more from GOD.

Oh ok; sorry.

It takes a real dedicated person to reach for the greater gifts from GOD, hence why we don't see such ministries currently in His body.

Maybe.
Or maybe people just seek God for himself and not for his gifts.

In some Pentecostal churches, people may have a ministry with their gift of tongues or their gift of prophesying, etc, but they won't go farther than that to obtain a ministry in the gifts of healings.

I don't know any such people, so I can't say.
But maybe they don't want a gift or healing; or God wants them to have only what they do have.
We can seek gifts, but I don't believe we have the right to demand them.

There is always more with GOD,.... if you want it.

He can certainly give so much more than we can ask or imagine. But I don't believe we should tell him what gifts he has to give us.
Some people might not be able to handle a gift of healing. They may become proud or not be able to use it wisely.

 

[ARBITER01]

Maybe.
Or maybe people just seek God for himself and not for his gifts.

I'm going to boil your post down to this statement here, because I think this can be the underlying issue for some folks.

Don't automatically assume that reaching for the greater gifts is somehow a demanding or prideful thing with GOD. We are told to do that very thing in scripture.

Besides, we can't just have GOD for ourselves and He not want to help people through us. In the early Greek texts, Acts 1:8 can be translated this way:

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses of Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea and Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

People are to experience Jesus through us. They are to witness His acts through us. In some ways that may sound like Japanese to some folks, but it is not about us, it is to be about Him.

This is why holiness is so important in our lives, so that GOD can operate to His glory through us.