Are there limits to what healing we can receive?

[Carl Emerson]

GOD has operated healing through many of us, including me, but this is not about us is it Carl?

What we don't have happening is the quality and quantity of healing that was happening through Jesus and the apostles.

We have the whole body of Christ unable to operate in the gifts of healings like Jesus currently. Not a single Christian is able to be used by GOD on a regular day to day basis with this gift.

Hmmmmm,...... I wonder why.

To balance your comment, it is easy to forget that Paul's testimony spanned many years - we have no evidence to suggest that he was witnessing miracles every day.

 

[ARBITER01]

To balance your comment, it is easy to forget that Paul's testimony spanned many years - we have no evidence to suggest that he was witnessing miracles every day.

Paul is not our example to imitate, Jesus is.

He is Who we follow, and it was He Who said that if we believed in Him, the works that He did we would do also.

I don't see any disclaimers from Him on this. People are to be operating in the gifts of healings as a ministry, just like the working of miracles is also a ministry that is to be operating in the body.

These things are to be a regular occurrence, but they are not.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Trying to find a topic that we can amicably disagree on, hopefully this is it. Scripture seems to support and promote that God heals us from all sickness and conditions.

Psalm 103:3 He who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases,

Matthew 4:23 Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people.

But most all of us have experienced times when we ask for and seek healing and it does not come. Now, a caveat to this discussion is I'm asking you not to use "It's God's Will" as a response to this. Is there scriptural support for the idea that we cannot be healed of some conditions?

Like, are there limits to what we can and cannot be healed of?

What is our response to people who genuinely ask for healing but do not receive it?

The only healing that we can receive are the ones where God, in His sovereignty, decides to bestow. There is no such thing as healing on demand.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Paul is not our example to imitate, Jesus is.

He is Who we follow, and it was He Who said that if we believed in Him, the works that He did we would do also.

I don't see any disclaimers from Him on this. People are to be operating in the gifts of healings as a ministry, just like the working of miracles is also a ministry that is to be operating in the body.

These things are to be a regular occurrence, but they are not.

Well in my domain they are happening and I try to encourage others to walk in the Spirit and enjoy seeing Him move.

At the end of the day though we will be called to account for what we did or didn't do. We wont have the excuse that the church didn't.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Paul is not our example to imitate, Jesus is.

Paul said - "Be imitators of me as I am of Christ..."

 

[Guojing]

But we can be Children of the Promise.

sure, that is a different point you are making

 

[Strong in Him]

The nature of Paul's condition is found in 2 Cor 11 as already shown and is not a sickness. People who are not sick do not need to be healed.

We are all sick.
Isaiah says, "he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities." Isaiah 53:5.
In the next verse he says, "we, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way", Isaiah 53:6.
The context speaks of sin, wickedness, pleasing ourselves.
That's why Jesus died; to reconcile us to God.

 

[Strong in Him]

So, we cannot claim that promise, even though it can be found in scripture, because it was specifically for Abram.

Even if someone was in the exact same situation as Abram was - a 100 year old childless man - they would not be able to claim the same promise.

 

[Strong in Him]

I'm angry, not because I feel let down, but because I see God's good being called bad, and Satan's bad being called good,

When has anyone said that Satan's bad is good?

 

[Strong in Him]

In the end, be it unto you according to what you believe.

What we believe doesn't always have anything to do with it.
Jesus didn't always ask people if they had faith before he healed them. The man at the pool believed a superstition that someone would only be healed if they went into the pool after an angel had stirred the waters. And he didn't even answer Jesus' question, "do you want to get well?"

I was told, on these forums, that I wouldn't be healed of M.E because I "didn't believe". That was because I didn't accept WOF statements.
God healed me anyway.

 

[Guojing]

Even if someone was in the exact same situation as Abram was - a 100 year old childless man - they would not be able to claim the same promise.

Yes, whenever someone try to use 2 Corinthians 1:20 in the wrong context, I always go back to the example of Genesis 15:5.

 

[Always in His Presence]

We are all sick.
Isaiah says, "he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities." Isaiah 53:5.
In the next verse he says, "we, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way", Isaiah 53:6.
The context speaks of sin, wickedness, pleasing ourselves.
That's why Jesus died; to reconcile us to God.

What does the rest of Isa 53:5 say?

I am always cautious when only a small portion of a verse is used to prove a point.

No, we are not all sick. But since you bring up Isaiah, look at what Matt wrote about it.

Matt 8:16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”

 

[Strong in Him]

What does the rest of Isa 53:5 say?

Healed doesn't always, or only, mean healed physically.

No, we are not all sick. But since you bring up Isaiah, look at what Matt wrote about it.

Matt 8:16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”

Yes, Jesus did take people infirmities and healed them - when he was performing his healing ministry.
That verse is sometimes applied to the cross to claim that Jesus died for our physical ailments. If you take the context of Isaiah 53, he is talking about sin, transgression, iniquity.
We are healed from that.

 

[ARBITER01]

Well in my domain they are happening and I try to encourage others to walk in the Spirit and enjoy seeing Him move.

You know what Carl, I don't think so.

Not in any frequency that they happened with Jesus, not even remotely close. Or even one of the apostles.

Just having a healing as a hit and miss situation every so often is not a ministry from The Holy Spirit. The Father was able to demonstrate amazing instances of power through Him on an every day basis,.... and that is our example to follow.

Now do we see that happening in the body of Christ currently? No we don't.

The question is why not.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yes, Jesus did take people infirmities and healed them - when he was performing his healing ministry.
That verse is sometimes applied to the cross to claim that Jesus died for our physical ailments. If you take the context of Isaiah 53, he is talking about sin, transgression, iniquity.
We are healed from that.

Isa 53:4,5 Surely He has borne our griefs (Transliterated kholee - sickness)
And carried our sorrows; ( Transliterated makob - pain)
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.​

This prophesy was completed in

Matt 8:16 When evening had come, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed. And He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were sick, 17 that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying:

“He Himself took our infirmities
And bore our sicknesses.”
​

The forgiveness of sins and healing of the body is intertwined throughout scripture and cannot be separated. To wit:

Psalm 103:1 Bless the Lord, O my soul;
And all that is within me, bless His holy name!
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul,
And forget not all His benefits:
3 Who forgives all your iniquities,
Who heals all your diseases,​

Jesus Himself preached and demonstrated it:

Luke 5:24 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—He said to the man who was paralyzed, “I say to you, arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”
​

Our physical (and mental) healing was bought and paid for by Jesus Christ on Calvary - the stripes He took specifically for our physical healing and the crown of thorn for our mental healing.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I wonder if the reason we dont see frequent healings and/or even miracles is we have lost true touch with the Spirit.

I dont mean this as a knock on anyone but rather an observation. And to clarify I am talking about true healing, not fake nonsense that charlatans perform to fool the masses.

Jesus and the Apostles operated under the full sway of the Spirit. Well Jesus did for sure. I always speak of the man in Acts 3. Jesus would have undoubtedly walked by him many times but never healed him, why? Because it wasnt the right time. The man in John 5 was lame for 38 years, yet it was always the Fathers will to heal him. Just wasnt the right time. The blind man had been born blind, yet Jesus didnt heal him until a certain time. Lazarus was sick and died. Jesus could have prevented that death, Jesus could have called him forth before he began to decay but that wasnt the Fathers plan.

So I wonder if we get so caught up on healing is (as one person put it) "on demand" that we forget the other very important part of that equation, working within the will (which includes the timing) of the Father.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I wonder if the reason we dont see frequent healings and/or even miracles is we have lost true touch with the Spirit.

I dont mean this as a knock on anyone but rather an observation. And to clarify I am talking about true healing, not fake nonsense that charlatans perform to fool the masses.

Jesus and the Apostles operated under the full sway of the Spirit. Well Jesus did for sure. I always speak of the man in Acts 3. Jesus would have undoubtedly walked by him many times but never healed him, why? Because it wasnt the right time. The man in John 5 was lame for 38 years, yet it was always the Fathers will to heal him. Just wasnt the right time. The blind man had been born blind, yet Jesus didnt heal him until a certain time. Lazarus was sick and died. Jesus could have prevented that death, Jesus could have called him forth before he began to decay but that wasnt the Fathers plan.

So I wonder if we get so caught up on healing is (as one person put it) "on demand" that we forget the other very important part of that equation, working within the will (which includes the timing) of the Father.

John 5:Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he already had been in that condition a long time, He said to him, “Do you want to be made well?”​

Why would Jesus ask such a strange question? What did the man's will have to do with his healing?

Did you notice something interesting in Acts 3 - Peter never prayed for the man - never asked if it was God's will for him to be healed - never even laid hands on him.

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.” 7 And he took him by the right hand and lifted him up,
​

Beyond a shadow of a doubt the 'healing ministry' was Christ's - who then commissioned the 12 - who also commissioned 70 others

Luke 10:After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.

vs. And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’
​

It is the same Jesus that then commissioned those that believe.

Perhaps the issue isn't the timing of God, but the actions of His children to do what He has already commanded.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

John 5:Now a certain man was there who had an infirmity thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there, and knew that he already had been in that condition a long time, He said to him, “Do you want to be made well?”​

Why would Jesus ask such a strange question? What did the man's will have to do with his healing?

Did you notice something interesting in Acts 3 - Peter never prayed for the man - never asked if it was God's will for him to be healed - never even laid hands on him.

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, “Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.” 7 And he took him by the right hand and lifted him up,
​

Beyond a shadow of a doubt the 'healing ministry' was Christ's - who then commissioned the 12 - who also commissioned 70 others

Luke 10:After these things the Lord appointed seventy others also, and sent them two by two before His face into every city and place where He Himself was about to go.

vs. And heal the sick there, and say to them, ‘The kingdom of God has come near to you.’
​

It is the same Jesus that then commissioned those that believe.

Perhaps the issue isn't the timing of God, but the actions of His children to do what He has already commanded.

I mean, technically, in Acts 3 it says Peter grabbed him by the arm and lifted him up. That is "laying hands on" in the technical definition.

I would agree about the prayer bit. I think people jump right to that too often and then when healing doesnt manifest say, "welp its not Gods will" instead of claiming healing as paid for by the cross as the Apostles would have.

 

[Always in His Presence]

I mean, technically, in Acts 3 it says Peter grabbed him by the arm and lifted him up. That is "laying hands on" in the technical definition.

There is were we disagree - laying on of hands is different than taking someone by the hand and helping them up.

I get your point - just splitting hairs with you.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Not in any frequency that they happened with Jesus, not even remotely close. Or even one of the apostles.

My reference was to Paul - consider the number of years as an apostle and the recorded healings, miracles - they were not happening every day.