Are there any survivors after the Great Tribulation

Revealing Times

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Question: WHEN was the Holy Spirit sent down?
WHEN did Jesus ascend?
This is nonsensical. The Holy Spirit is the Seven Eyes and Seven Spirits, signifying it is OMNIPRESENT, or everywhere, on Earth and in Heaven. Jesus is in Heaven opening the Seals.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book,


WHEN did Jesus get a hold of the book?

In Heaven, on the FUTURE as per the time frame to man-kind. This is not that hard.
WHEN did Jesus get a hold of the book?

Now examine ever verse in this chapter, starting with verse 8.
Then verse 1 of chapter 6.

Tell us WHEN - that is which verse - shows us 2000 years of time passing.
This I have to see!

If Rev. 6:1 is still future, there must be 2000 years of time in a verse, or between two verses. Please show us WHICH VERSE.

Are you kidding ? this is kiddie stuff. Where does the book of Daniel give you any years on the Kingdoms per se. It should be obvious.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

After the Church age.
 
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miknik5

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Oh my!
Just 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint, the man of sin will enter Jerusalem with his Muslim (Sorry, Gentile) armies with him. We see in 11:1 & 2 that they will begin trampling Jerusalem at this point in time, which will continue for the next 42 months following their arrival - which will take them close to the 7th vial that ends the week.

Maybe seconds after the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem, the two witnesses suddenly show up. They will begin testifying 3 1/2 days before the exact midpoint, and testify for 1260 days - which will take them to just 3 1/2 days before the 7th vial ends the week. They will lay dead for those 3 1/2 days, then rise up at the 7th vial, when all the Old Testament saints rise. OF COURSE they will be testifying while the city is being trampled.

Then the man of sin will enter the temple and cause the abomination. The Daily sacrifices will cease. A second or two later (reaction time) those living in Judea will begin to flee as seen in 12:6. OF COURSE they will be fleeing while the two witnesses are testifying and while the city is being trampled.

They will be protected and fed for 3 1/2 years.

The man of sin will start his 42 months of authority (perhaps the next day after the fleeing? Perhaps a few hours later? Perhaps a few seconds later?). While he is exercising his authority, the woman will be fleeing and be being protected, and the two witnesses will still be witnessing and the city will still be being trampled.

So we have all five time lines running parallel. But their START TIMES will be staggered as shown. Even if they all started at the same instant of time, John has to write about one at a time.
So will the 42 months of trampling begin before the 42 months of authority? I think so. If you noticed, the week ends at the 7th vial, but the Beast is not caught until chapter 19, a little AFTER the week ends.

By the way, John does not even hint that these times should be added.
Perhaps you can agree with me if I say it this way: from the start of chapter 11, there will be 5 parallel times all counting down at the same time. And at the same time, we have John's narrative also running parallel to the others, on through the second half of the week.
The man of sin will not be fully manifest until 2 Thessalonians 2 happens

Which is also the reason there even in two powerful witnesses sent during that time
 
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miknik5

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While the HOLY SPIRIT is in the world HE convicts the world of sin

Those who preach THE GOSPEL testify that there is sin in the world and man is separated from GOD because of sin

Remove THE HOLY SPIRIT from the world and sin runs rampant
And the man of sin who offered a temporary peace covenant will reveal himself at that point and forward with no one to restrain him
 
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Riberra

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Rev. 4:1 AFTER THIS, I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with ]me; which said,Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

After the Church age.
Wrong ,-AFTER THIS- means simply after that John have finished to write Revelation Chapter 1 through Revelation Chapter 3 ie the address to the 7 Churches.

John have never physically ascended to Heaven,he said After THIS, i looked and a door was opened in Heaven ........,4:2 AND IMMEDIATELY I WAS IN THE SPIRIT.That is the continuation of the things revealed to him THROUGH a VISION.John have never quit physically the Isle of Patmos.
 
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iamlamad

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Wrong again!
???????

Are you talking to yourself?

Where in my post did I say anything about John even being important to the TRUTH that those seals were meant only for Christ to open and by HIS opening before John who was told to write it down, what was hidden and would have remained hidden from us had John not been allowed to write it down was revealed to us

You had written:
"If we're talking about revelation 6, The seals were opened simply to reveal the history of man against man

John cried because no one could see into the scroll. It was hidden and GOD did not reveal all these things until CHRIST took the scroll, and took back authority. And with that a day of accountability."


No, the seals were opened so that the scroll could be opened. That was the purpose of the seals, to seal the book. As each seal was opened, things happened: the gospel was sent out, then the devil, in trying to stop the gospel, started wars, famines, pestilences etc. Is this what you mean by "history of man against man?" I will agree these seals are history now, as they have been ongoing during the church age.

Again you are right that these things were hidden: how would we every know God the Father had a book unless John told us?

As far as "took back authority" what do you mean? I see Christ taking back His power as seen in Rev. 11:17 "because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."

I don't think I was talking to myself. Perhaps i did not understand your meaning, although I think I did. I disagreed on your stated purpose of the seals.

By the way, you did not mention John, I DID, because it was John that was weeping because "no man was found."
 
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iamlamad

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Tell us about the "first search" which John was a witness to


And with your explanation please keep in mind Isaiah 7 and Revelation 12
Let me cut to the chase

When was HE snatched up to HIS THRONE?

Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.


John watched this search being carried out: in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. It ended in failure, so John wept.

He ascended right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had NOT YET ascended. He ascended as soon as Mary left Him. But of course He came back to meet with the disciples.
After 40 days He ascended. I don't think he was "snatched."
 
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Revealing Times

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Wrong ,-AFTER THIS- means simply after that John have finished to write Revelation Chapter 1 through Revelation Chapter 3 ie the address to the 7 Churches.

John have never physically ascended to Heaven,he said After THIS, i looked and a door was opened in Heaven ........,4:2 AND IMMEDIATELY I WAS IN THE SPIRIT.That is the continuation of the things revealed to him THROUGH a VISION.John have never quit physically the Isle of Patmos.
Rev. 4 on is After the Church age. Of course you that ant see the Rapture cant see that either.
 
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Riberra

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Rev. 4 on is After the Church age. Of course you that ant see the Rapture cant see that either.
The Church age will never End....The Church will be made immortal unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory.
- Unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory those who are Saved will share His Glory and will be a light to the Nations.
 
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miknik5

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Sins actually abounds and the Holy Spirit is there.Do you watch the news sometimes ?
What does this have to do with anything that I have said otherwise?

The point is that 2 Thessalonians 2 has not yet happened

When GOD's "HEDGE" (of protection) is removed what do you expect?

Things to get better?
 
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miknik5

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Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.


John watched this search being carried out: in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. It ended in failure, so John wept.

He ascended right after telling Mary not to touch Him for He had NOT YET ascended. He ascended as soon as Mary left Him. But of course He came back to meet with the disciples.
After 40 days He ascended. I don't think he was "snatched."
You think that GOD was waiting for someone (just anyone) to overcome?

Revelation 12 tells you that the ONE planned from the beginning was snatched up from the beginning

There was no waiting in expectation for GOD

CHRIST was the ONE and ONLY and from the beginning

There was never another nor were we ever waiting for another
 
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miknik5

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You had written:
"If we're talking about revelation 6, The seals were opened simply to reveal the history of man against man

John cried because no one could see into the scroll. It was hidden and GOD did not reveal all these things until CHRIST took the scroll, and took back authority. And with that a day of accountability."


No, the seals were opened so that the scroll could be opened. That was the purpose of the seals, to seal the book. As each seal was opened, things happened: the gospel was sent out, then the devil, in trying to stop the gospel, started wars, famines, pestilences etc. Is this what you mean by "history of man against man?" I will agree these seals are history now, as they have been ongoing during the church age.

Again you are right that these things were hidden: how would we every know God the Father had a book unless John told us?

As far as "took back authority" what do you mean? I see Christ taking back His power as seen in Rev. 11:17 "because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."

I don't think I was talking to myself. Perhaps i did not understand your meaning, although I think I did. I disagreed on your stated purpose of the seals.

By the way, you did not mention John, I DID, because it was John that was weeping because "no man was found."
The "man found" was planned from the beginning

And satan knew it from the beginning

What did you think Revelation 12 depicted but the war in heaven because satan knew the plan and did not like the plan and did not like his temporary position as a covering angel until THE ONE to come had come
 
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Another Lazarus

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- Unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory those who are Saved will share His Glory and will be a light to the Nations.

Nations will mourn when Jesus appears because they are leftbehind and deep inside their heart they detec something very horrible to befall the world of mankind.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH
 
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Another Lazarus

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When GOD's "HEDGE" (of protection) is removed what do you expect?
Things to get better?

You're right, the PEACE shall be removed at the great tribulation, which is never happen be4.
Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another.

Most part of the world are still enjoying Peace by now, food abundant, but it is not available forever for the ignorant society.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH
 
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Riberra

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What does this have to do with anything that I have said otherwise?
You seem to think that the Holy Spirit need to be removed and then the sins will abound...

Look around --- sins abound in the World ACTUALLY !
The point is that 2 Thessalonians 2 has not yet happened
A great APOSTASY [falling away from Faith] will happen in the CHURCH ...AFTER THAT the Man of Sin will be revealed....The great Apostasy in the Church will happen when those who [wrongly] believe that there will be a removal to Heaven will realize that no such thing will happen....
When GOD's "HEDGE" (of protection) is removed what do you expect?
Things to get better?
Where did i said that ?
Things will be like described in Revelation...the Trib will begin with the Great Earthquake and the signs in the sun and moon at the 6th Seal [Revelation 6:12-17]and few times later the first trumpet of Revelation 8...
 
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Revealing Times

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The Church age will never End....The Church will be made immortal unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory.
- Unto the Coming of Jesus in Glory those who are Saved will share His Glory and will be a light to the Nations.
The Church age ends when the Trump is sounded and Pentecost is over.

Spring Feasts
Feast of Passover = Jesus blood
Feast of Unleavened Bread = Jesus was without Sin
Feast of First-fruits = Jesus raised from the dead


Feast of Pentecost = Church age


Fall Feasts
Feast of Trumpets = The End of Pentecost and signals the Feast of Atonement's and Tabernacles are at hand.

Feast of Atonement = Israel Repents/Atones
Feast of Tabernacle = Israel Dwell with God.
 
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Riberra

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The Church age ends when the Trump is sounded and Pentecost is over.

Spring Feasts
Feast of Passover = Jesus blood
Feast of Unleavened Bread = Jesus was without Sin
Feast of First-fruits = Jesus raised from the dead


Feast of Pentecost = Church age


Fall Feasts
Feast of Trumpets = The End of Pentecost and signals the Feast of Atonement's and Tabernacles are at hand.

Feast of Atonement = Israel Repents/Atones
Feast of Tabernacle = Israel Dwell with God.
Messiah fulfilled the promises that were made to Abraham and the Fathers of the faith.

When Abraham took Isaac up to sacrifice him, he told him Isaac that Elohim would send a Lamb.

Abraham looked to the day when the spotless Lamb of Elohim would atone for his sins, and the sins of his descendants who believed by faith.

Messiah is fulfilling Elohim’s seven Holy Feast Days that were given to the Israelites to practice until the Messiah came to fulfill them.

Messiah was without blemish, fulfilling the Feast of Unleavened Bread; His sacrifice as the Lamb of Elohim fulfilled the Feast of Passover, His resurrection fulfilled the Feast of First Fruits, and His pouring out the Spirit of Elohim fulfilled Pentecost.


This would have confirmed to the Israelites that He was the promised Messiah. After Messiah ascended into heaven, the disciples proclaimed all of these things to help the House of Israel see the truth.

God’s prophets pointed to Jesus covenant, which covered their sins.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 foretold the time when Jesus would offer a new covenant to the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. In Hebrews 8:8-10, Paul confirmed that this was fulfilled by Jesus.

“Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”

Christ, by whom the covenant was made and ratified, is called the angel or messenger of the covenant, because he reconciles us to his Father.

Malachi 3:1, “Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”

Shortly after Jesus was baptized and anointed, He proclaimed that He was the promised Messiah when He read from the book of Isaiah in the synagogue before the Jews.

Ezekiel 37:26-27 confirms that it was Jesus who ‘cut’ an everlasting covenant, that established peace between God and man. And He setup a spiritual temple that can never be abolished, which is made up of His people.

“Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, and it shall be an everlasting covenant with them; I will establish them and multiply them, and I will set My sanctuary in their midst forevermore. My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”

Jesus the Messiah was the mediator, the messenger and the ratifier, of the covenant of grace which was confirmed with many, both Jews and Gentiles, so that the promise made to all nations in Abraham would be fulfilled.

Isaiah 42:6, “I, the LORD, have called You in righteousness, And will hold Your hand; I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the Gentiles.”

This is proof that the “burning lamp” represented our Savior as man’s intercessor. Christ, the promised Redeemer, had to be there as the author of the covenant, or His death could not have validated it.
Jesus was sent for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, to offer them a new covenant.

Jesus confirmed this in Matthew 15:24, when He said “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Map of Jesus Ministry

During Jesus 3 1/2 year ministry He performed miracles and preached the Gospel to the lost House of Israel.

Jesus focused His ministry in the areas north of Jerusalem, where the House of Israel used to live before the Assyrians scattered them, and where some of them had regathered.

He ministered in Bethsaida Julias (the home of Peter, Andrew, and Philip), Caesaria Philippi, Cana, Capernaum, Chorazin, the Decapolis, Gennesaret, Jericho, Nain, Nazareth, Perea, the Region of the Gadarenes, Samaria, Sidon, Sychar, and Tyre. (Jerusalem is marked by RED. YELLOW marks the places where Jesus ministered.)
The 70th week of Daniel covenant is eternal, not just for 7 years.

Today’s Pastors teach that the Antichrist will make a 7 year covenant with Israel, but Daniel 9:27 is not saying that the covenant only lasts for 7 years.

It is saying that Jesus (and His disciples) confirmed the covenant for 7 years.

So how did Jesus confirm that He was the Messiah confirming the Covenant?

1. By the testimony,

Of angels;
Of John the Baptist;
Of the wise men;
Of the disciples;
Of Moses and Elisha
Of Pharisees, such as Nicodemus;
Of the devils that confessed him.

2. By His preaching.

3. By healings, signs and wonders.

4. By His holy life.

5. By His death and blood shed.

6. By His resurrection and ascension.
The ‘Old‘ and ‘New‘ Covenant refer to their confirmation date.

The terms “new” and “old” in regard to the covenant DON’T refer to their creation date; rather, they indicate the order in which they were confirmed.

The Sinai Covenant was confirmed in the Levitical priest system by the daily sacrifice of the lamb for the sins of the people.

The Abraham Covenant was confirmed by Jesus our High Priest, who died on the cross as the sacrificial Lamb of God. So it is referred to as “new.”

Jesus was “cut off”, crucified midway through Daniel’s 70th week.

Isaiah 53:8 foretold that Messiah would be ‘cut off’ for our sins. “He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.”

This directly matches Daniel 9:27 which foretold that His sacrifice would end the need for temple sacrifices, as He was the one-time atonement for our sins, “and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”

It is clear from John’s Gospel that our Lord’s ministry was approximately, if not exactly, three and a half years in duration. Hence from His anointing until His death would be “in the midst” of the 70th week.

This is a perfect match with Daniel 9:27, which says “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.”

At the moment of His death, “the veil of the temple was torn in two” (Matthew 27:51).

Why?

Because this act of God signified that all animal sacrifices at that moment ceased to be of value, because the Perfect Sacrifice was offered once and for all. It fulfilled the law and the need for Levite priests to mediate for men!

Because Jesus is the Mediator of the new covenant, so there is no separation between us and God.

By His blood sacrifice, Jesus fulfilled the demands that God made to the Jews in Daniel 9:24:

“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.”

Jesus blood sacrifice covered over the transgressions which were committed under the old covenant, which the blood of bulls and calves could not do. It provided reconciliation for iniquity and brought in everlasting righteousness. It sealed up all Old Testament prophecies which pointed to their coming Messiah.

Paul confirmed this in Hebrews 9:15, “And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance..”
 
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iamlamad

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This is nonsensical. The Holy Spirit is the Seven Eyes and Seven Spirits, signifying it is OMNIPRESENT, or everywhere, on Earth and in Heaven. Jesus is in Heaven opening the Seals.


In Heaven, on the FUTURE as per the time frame to man-kind. This is not that hard.


Are you kidding ? this is kiddie stuff. Where does the book of Daniel give you any years on the Kingdoms per se. It should be obvious.

Rev. 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

After the Church age.
I Say! Went right over his head!
Jesus ascended around 32 AD.
The Holy Spirit sent down around 32 AD
Seal one opened around 32 AD. To represent the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL.

Not difficult, as you say, but it went right over your head.
"After these things" is a phrase John used like 6 different times, and only as a transitional phrase to show a change in the vision. To pick our one of these 6 and imagine it means something different is silly. It is not after the church age. John was called up to heaven around 95 AD. That was IN the church age, not after it.
John was to see things in the past, things in the future, and things in the future. It is up to the reader to see at any time which John saw seeing.

Why did John NOT see Jesus at the right hand of the father, when he looked into the throne room? There are a dozen verses that tell us He should have been there. Stephen SAW HIM there. This is HINT: God is showing us TIMING. In all of a time-line, way before God created the universe, to far far out into the future past where Revelation takes us, there was only one TINY speck of time when God the Son was NOT at the right hand of the Father: and that was the tiny piece of time when Jesus was on earth. So Jesus NOT seen at the right hand of the Father is telling us this was while Jesus was on earth.

Next, why was "no man found" in the search for one worthy? If we read ahead, we see that Jesus was found. But He was NOT Found in the first search John watched. Why? Again it is showing is TIME or TIMING. It it showing us that this was BEFORE Christ rose from the dead: the moment He rose, He was found worthy.

So from the above, when we get into chapter 5 and Jesus suddenly appears in the throne room, we now see the MOVEMENT OF TIME, from before Christ rose to the time Christ rose, to the time He ascended - right after telling Mary NOT to hold onto Him for He had not yet ascended.

We also see the moment the Holy Spirit was sent down - which was the very moment Christ ascended.

All this is to show us TIMING. Of course all this will go right over your head. So be it.

The point is, this is all to give us the TIMING of the first seals. Seal one was a WHITE horse. John used the color white 17 other times in Revelation - each time to represent righteousness. We can be SURE, the white color of the horse is to represent righteousness. It is the infant CHURCH sent out with the gospel of our Lord. OF COURSE there would be conquering because the nations of the world were and still are controlled by Satan.
 
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iamlamad

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This is a very good answer that showS the Seals opening etc must happen HEREAFTER, not 2000 years ago.

May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH
It just means God called JOHN into heaven, around 95 AD. That is all it means. If God showed John TWO events of the future, and filled the rest of Revelation up with recipes for mana, it will fulfill this verse about "hereafter." Indeed, God showed him MANY things from the future. In chapter one we learn that John is to write about the past, about the present AND about the future. Don't read into a verse what is not there.
 
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