Are Jews still God's Chosen People ?

[U.S. Grant]

Genesis 17:13 (NIV)
Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant.

Leviticus 24:8 (NRSV)
Every sabbath day Aaron shall set them in order before the LORD regularly as a commitment of the people of Israel, as a covenant forever.


The covenants between God and the Jews are considered forever/everlasting for a reason, that is, from a legal/lawful point of view. There's a bonding between God and those Jews remaining loyal to Him. This is indicative of the Jewish circumcision and Sabbath keeping (they are not a requirement of the gentile Christians, or not part of the New Covenant in a broader sense). If a Jewish Christian would like to keep this bonding between God and the Jews in a forever sense, he needs to be circumcised and to keep the Sabbath as a basic requirement of this forever/everlasting covenant.

That's why even Paul urged Timothy to be circumcised. By bloodline Timothy's mother is a Jew. Paul not only wanted Timothy to be a Christian, but also wanted him to be a Jew to be circumcised. This however is never a requirement of any gentile Christians.

I understand the notion that "only circumcised inwardly counts". However it doesn't seem that this doctrine fits what the Bible explicitly expresses.

In today's world, there are still 2 million orthodox Jews (out of the 20 million Jewish population) trying to abide by the Mosaic Law and Jewish customs, including circumcision and Sabbath keeping. It by no means says that God accepts today's Judaism (they are not considered saved by the standard specified through the Mosaic Law). It however says that they are still loyal to God, though they failed to recognize their own Messiah.

"Balaam" is also defined for them. Whoever Jews standing in the way of God's salvation are not counted as a Jew.

Revelation 3:9 (NIV)
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

In a nutshell, God's bonding with the Jews is a forever bonding. The Jews are those circumcised and keeping the Law (Mosaic Law). They are however not counted as a Jew if they choose to stand in the way of God's salvation through Jesus Christ.

While apparently they are not saved by observing the Mosaic Law to an acceptable standard, God may still have mercy on them (some of them to be more specific) from a legal/lawful point of view.

In a nutshell, God's bonding with the Jews is a forever bonding.

Inward Jews with circumcision of Christ? yes. Israel after the flesh with circumcision of flesh, which is now made uncircumcision? not.

But it could have been everlasting by generation of the flesh, if they had recieved Christ, when He came to confirm the promise of covenant and circumcision of the flesh, which ended when that God was killed by them on the cross.

At this time, therefore, what concord hath Christ with Belial, which is the god of the Jews religion, and any other false religion on earth? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel, which are them denying the faith of Jesus? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols, who are worshipped in the false religions of man?

Is Christ God's? Yes. Is Christ bond and joined to an harlot, which is any and every false religion? God forbid.

If any are not Christ's, then they are not God's, because now only Christ is God's. (1 Cor 3:23)

Not reading all Scripture and prophecy of Scripture through NT teaching of Scripture, results in supposing the risen God of Israel is in everlasting bondage to a false and gainsaying people of flesh, who walk after the flesh, and not after the Spirit, and justify themselves in a passed law and covenant of circumcision by flesh, having not the circumcision of Christ by the Spirit.

The bond between the God of Israel and the natural branches ended with the death of the Husband on the cross. That old wife was then set free from the law of marriage to Him, and they have married another: the god of this world, and their prince charming them to death is now that of the air.

The true God is not the God in bondage to a blind people, by a law that has been changed from their covenant to that of a better covenant in the risen Savior Jesus Christ, who has absolutely nothing to do with the bondage of their covenant with death, which they made for themselves at the cross, when they took counsel among themselves to take the inheritance for their own (Mark 12:7):

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. (Is 28)

And so now, they do have their own miserable heritage, inheritance, religion, nation, and god, so that the prophesy of Scripture is fulfilled:

What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others. And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner. This was the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

Those other husbandmen are the people of promise and seed of Abraham in Christ Jesus, called Christians. Israel after the flesh is miserably in name only.

NT teaching of Scripture makes all things clear and simple, as clear as glass in the simplicity of Christ.

 

[U.S. Grant]

Jews are always God's people now and forever...

True. All those inwardly circumcised of Christ are God's people grafted into the green olive tree of the house of Israel and of Judah.

They are the good figs returned from captivity (Jerem 24), prophesied by Amos to be the remnant tabernacle of David built again (Acts 15), which the Lord Jesus now pitches.

(Gentile believers adopted the name Jews just as the natural born Jews have)

Jesus believers have been given the new name of God's people prophesied by Isaiah 62:1-3): Christians.

They are Jews inwardly, but are called Christians outwardly. And them calling themselves 'Jews' outwardly by birth and circumcision of flesh, are called liars by the Lord Jesus. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

 

[Bob_1000]

Are Jews still God's Chosen People ?

God's chosen people have always been and always will be those who obey the voice of God and keep his covenant... in other words Christians, even though they weren't called Christians at that time.

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

 

[U.S. Grant]

God's chosen people have always been and always will be those who obey the voice of God and keep his covenant... in other words Christians, even though they weren't called Christians at that time.

Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

Simplicity the heart of truth. Good job.

God's people are no longer called Jews by God in Scripture, as they had been since Babylon, but Christians. Which He prophesied He would do in Isaiah 62:1-3.

That is why anyone calling anyone a Jew on earth today is called a liar by Jesus. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

They are rejecting the name the risen God of Israel now calls His people: Christian.

 

[ralliann]

Post #294 speaks for itself.

Not by you

Let's just leave it at that, okay?

If you will leave it to speak for itself I am good with that.
Just like the numerous times the law is termed to be "the law of Moses", does not mean Moses personal law. We can leave it at that?

 

[Clare73]

Revelation 3:9, "Listen! I am going to make those people from the synagogue of Satan—
who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying."

Would that refer to circumcision of the heart (Romans 2:28-29)?

This implies that the people who called themselves Jews weren't really Jews. That doesn't mean that anyone calling anyone a Jew on earth today is lying. It means that those people were imposters.

It makes no sense at all to say that calling anyone a Jew on earth today is called a liar. That is your misinterpretation, making Scripture say what you want, but not what it clearly says. There are many, many Jews throughout the world -- and I am one of them.

 

[rturner76]

Isn't there a difference between a Jew and an Israelite? Isn't a Jew from the tribe of Juda and the Israelites could possibly represent any of the 12 tribes?

So, is it that all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews?

I do believe the Israelites are God's chosen people and if they follow their laws more than they don't, they will be saved.

 

[U.S. Grant]

Are Jews still God's Chosen People ?

Yes. All inwardly circumcised with the circumcision of Christ. They are now called Christians.

 

[U.S. Grant]

Isn't there a difference between a Jew and an Israelite? Isn't a Jew from the tribe of Juda and the Israelites could possibly represent any of the 12 tribes?

So, is it that all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews?

I do believe the Israelites are God's chosen people and if they follow their laws more than they don't, they will be saved.

Scripture first called them Jews of the tribe of Judah, being driven from Elath.

Jews later became the common name used by Scripture for the children of Jacob. The lost sheep of the house of Israel Jesus first came to were all known as Jews.

Now the name for the children of Abraham and of Israel is called Christians in Scripture, in fulfillment of the God of Israel changing the name of His people to that of another. (Isaiah 62:1-2)

Israel after the flesh and Israelites as citizens thereof , or only a name. Not a reality with God anymore, except any of them repent and believe Jesus like the rest of their kindreds of the earth.

Then they are known as Christians.

I do believe the Israelites are God's chosen people and if they follow their laws more than they don't, they will be saved.

Like the good deeds outweighing the evil ones?

No man is saved by works, but only by faith in the blood of Jesus.

 

[U.S. Grant]

Since Babylon to Rome, the Jews was the common name for all the seed of Abram, and were the natural seed of Abraham by birth only.

Except they received the faith of Abraham, they were not the children of Abraham with promise of the coming Christ.

In the time of the Old Testament, there were believing Jews and children of Abraham, and unbelieving seed of Abram cut off from the promised covenant with Abraham.

The only children of Abraham, then and now, are those of faith: faith in the God of Abraham and of Israel before the cross, and now faith in the risen God of Abraham and Israel with the resurrection.

To call oneself a Jew today in continued relationship to the God of Abraham during the old covenant is a lie. All such Jews and seed of Abram were broken off by unbelief at the cross.

With the resurrection, the only believing Jews on earth are them inwardly circumcised by the faith of Abraham in the promised seed: Jesus Christ.

And Scripture no more calls them Jews, but Christians.

Any unbelieving child of flesh calling themselves a Jew of God is called a liar by the Lord Jesus. (Rev 2:9,3:9)

If someone is Jewish in the nation of Israel after the flesh, based upon national identity and cultural heritage, it has no more to do with the promised covenant of the God of Abraham, Jesus Christ, than any other uncircumcised nation on earth, such as the British of Britain.

If any child of flesh among the uncircumcised nations of the earth repent and believe Jesus, they become the Jews circumcised of Christ, called Christians.

When we go by NT Scripture to reveal the truth of OT prophecy, we can think with a sound mind, and act according to the will of the Lord on earth.

All seed of flesh on earth today, since the cross, are once again of one blood, even as before Abram:

And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us.

With the death, burial, and resurrection of the God of Israel, all nations of men are the same: uncircumcised children of flesh, that should seek the risen Lord Jesus to find Him and become the children of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob counted for the seed of promise.

Neither God the Father nor God the Son is now a respecter of persons after the flesh.

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

There a some here who don't play well with each other; so it would probably be best for everyone if they just went their own ways.​

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Neostarwcc]

Are Jews still God's Chosen People ?

Of course they are. But not all of Israel is Israel. Read the book of Isaiah to see how God views the general Israeli people. But as for those that share in Abraham's promise (as we are) yes, they're God's beloved and chosen people.

 

[U.S. Grant]

Of course they are. But not all of Israel is Israel. Read the book of Isaiah to see how God views the general Israeli people. But as for those that share in Abraham's promise (as we are) yes, they're God's beloved and chosen people.

All Jews today are them inwardly circumcised of Christ, and all of them are saved.

But not all the natural seed of Abraham believe, and so not all are children of Abraham. So also with the natural seed of Israel, are not all children of Israel.

That natural seed still has a future promise as a nation on land from Egypt to Euphrates, but it will not be granted until the generation after Jesus' return to earth.

Every generation of the children of flesh since His resurrection unto the one of His return, will either believe and obey Him unto the first resurrection, or abide in unbelief and perish.

So, today, no flesh has any promise for the risen God of Israel, except that of eternal salvation by believing and obeying Him.

I.e. eternal glory or eternal shame. No land grants.

 

[LeGato]

Are Jews still God's Chosen People ?

No. That changed with the New Testament.

 

[U.S. Grant]

No. That changed with the New Testament.

True. It changed from them outwardly circumcised only to them inwardly circumcised only.

 

[pescador]

No. That changed with the New Testament.

Wrong. Jesus was a Jew, as were all the apostles and prophets. The Jews are the chosen people of God, the root that supports the rest of the "tree" of believers.

Romans 11 explains this very well. Here are some excerpts...

Romans 11:1-2a, "So I ask, God has not rejected his people, has he? Absolutely not! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew!"

Romans 11:16, "If the first portion of the dough offered is holy, then the whole batch is holy, and if the root is holy, so too are the branches."

Romans 11:25-26a, " For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved"

Romans 11:28-31, "In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable. Just as you were formerly disobedient to God, but have now received mercy due to their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that, by the mercy shown to you, they too may now receive mercy."

 

[U.S. Grant]

THe Jews are the chosen people of God with inward circumcision of Christ, and are now called Christians, which are the branches of the green olive tree of Israel and of Judah.

The only root is Jesus Christ, the root and offspring of David.

Whoever thinks they are the root of the tree, out of which the branches are grown, is strongly delusional by pride of flesh, which is the worst of two bad combinations.

 

[U.S. Grant]

All Israel and Jews are now saved, because only them inwardly circumcised of Christ are Israel and Jews.

With the cross, the flesh profits nothing with God, and outward circumcision is no circumcision.

Pertaining to Israel after the flesh, it is in name only, and none are the saved remnant of Israel, except they repent and believe Jesus to obey Him for eternal salvation.

Them that are of the natural seed of Abraham and Israel are not all children of Abraham and of Israel, but only them with the faith of Abraham and Israel in the promised seed, which is Christ.

Before the cross, only the natural seed of Abraham that believed the God of Abraham and of Israel was counted for children of Abraham, and with the resurrection, the only children of Abraham are them that believe and obey Jesus, the risen God of Abraham and of Israel, with circumcision of the heart.

Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

 

[BewareTheLamb]

Abrahams people were called Israel.
Jews are not all of Israel. Many Jews were never in Abrahams lineage. Many modern Jews are converts to Judaism and not real Hebrews.

Christ told the Jews in his day that if they were of Abraham, then they would do the works of Abraham.

Others Jews told Jesus that that had never been in bondage to any man.. Which was evidence that they were not Hebrews who were enslaved in Egypt and Babylon.

The Judeans disobeyed the command that forbade the Idumeans and Kenites from entering the congregation of the lord. These become powerful Scribes and Pharasees and perverted the Laws of Yahweh into Judaism..

1 Chr 2:55
55 And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Suchathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hemath, the father of the house of Rechab.
(KJV)


Kenites are Cains seed. The offsrping of Vipers, the cursed lineage to whom it was forbidden to enter the congregation of the Lord.

Also Yahwehs chosen people are those that do his will.
His chosen are those that know his son, Yahushua HaMeshiach.

shlama

.

Kenites are Cains seed. The offsrping of Vipers, the cursed lineage to whom it was forbidden to enter the congregation of the Lord.

FYI - Cains seed perished in the flood. Noah follows Seth lineage

 

[BewareTheLamb]

Israel will be saved... But not the way John Hagee, Perry Stone, the writers of the Left Behind series, Jack Van Impe, Hal Lindsay, or any other Dispensationalist/Christian Zionist see it happening.

God sees Israel and the church as one... Not two separate identities.

Slight problem with seeing Israel and Church as one.
Israel is a Nation, Church is not
Israel is from one bloodline (hereditary), Jacob. Church is a body based on faith (can't be physically born into Church) not bloodline of Jacob Then there is the matter of the Covenants which are directed to the Seed of Abraham not the Church. Church is a body not a nation requiring land.