Futurist Only "any time rapture" is how is that not just "pre trib"

[Jeffwhosoever]

See also:

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1117&context=pretrib_arch

The Case for a Pre-Trib Rapture | Christian Articles | Inspiration Ministries

http://storage.cloversites.com/makinglifecountministriesinc/documents/16 Proofs of a Pre-Trib Rapture.pdf

 

[ewq1938]

I think you meant - anytime before the Great Tribulation is still pre-trib.

However, that (pre-Great Tribulation) is not how the pre-trib rapture has been defined by them have been advocating it for at least the past 50 years. They say pre-trib means before the 7 years of the 70th week begins.

Their term "pre-trib" is actually a misnomer, which is a big cause of the problem. What they should have called it to be consistently with their definition is "pre-70th week".

They also use the pre-70th week timing to say no-one (Christians) will know who the Antichrist is because the church will not be here when he confirms the covenant to begin the 70th week.

This is still a "before the Great Tribulation begins rapture" concept, called pre-trib.

 

[Douggg]

This is still a "before the Great Tribulation begins rapture" concept, called pre-trib.

What is called the pre-trib rapture view is before the Great Tribulation AND before the 70th weeks begins which the advocates of that view have defined the entire 70th week as "the tribulation".

 

[TribulationSigns]

How do you interpret 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (NASB)?

15 For we say this to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who remain, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

1Th 4:15-17
(15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Co 15:51-52
(51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Those Elect who are still alive and remain on Earth when the LAST TRUMPET sounds, they will be changed and rapture when Christ returns. It is the seventh trumpet of Revelation. Not 7 years earlier. Not a secret rapture.

Revelation 3:10 (NASB)
10 Because you have kept My word of perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of the testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who live on the earth.

Notice it does not say the "hour of the tribulation". Do you know what the hour of testing or trial is? The tribulation and the testing are not the same.

Daniel 9:27 (NASB)
27 And he will confirm a covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come the one who makes desolate, until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, gushes forth on the one who makes desolate.”

What does the covenant have to do with the rapture?

Daniel 12: 10-13 (NASB)
10 Many will be purged, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand. 11 And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who is patient and attains to the 1,335 days! 13 But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will rest and rise for your allotted portion at the end of the age.”

Dan 9:27
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

1,335th day is the day of Christ's return and the rapture. At the consummation of the covenant week. It is not something you can count days literally in a calendar.

Revelation 20:4-6 (NASB)
4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foreheads and on their hands; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years

Sad, some people tend to think, "since it's been more than 1000 years since Christ went to the cross, that can't be the right conclusion". They say that because they are thinking of this chapter as a strictly literal interpretation even though it is "quite obviously" replete with symbolism. Revelation chapter 20 is not speaking of literal objects or times, it is speaking in symbolic terms of very literal happenings and time. There is a difference! It is using symbolic words that man will recognize as representations of what is happening. For example, the chain is not a literal chain, it represents or signifies restraint, the key is not a literal key, it represents or signifies authority and ability, etc. All we have to do is look at the rest of the chapter to clearly see this. This Messenger didn't come down from heaven with a literal key. This Messenger didn't come with a literal great Chain. Satan, a spirit, cannot be bound with a literal Chain nor locked up with a literal lock. Again, Satan is a spirit being. He must be restrained spiritually by God Himself. Rather than literal, this Language is representative Spiritual language to illustrate binding, and securing, and the the key illustrates He has the power and authority to keep bound, or to unlock and set loose.

So if we are not talking about strictly literal things here, what would make anyone think that the 1000 years must be a literal number of years anymore than the chain to hold Satan that 1000 years was a literal chain? The answer is Nothing! Nothing except Church tradition or teachings which is what I am seeing here. It's not literal years! We understand this number 1000 to be symbolic to show us that Satan is being restrained so that he cannot bring this great iniquity and deceive the nations "for the fullness of God's time." Likewise, the bottomless pit or Abyss signifies a void place of nothing, as fathomless as can be imagined, to hold a spirit. So why would we pick the 1000 years out of all these symbolic terms and say it must be taken literally or else we are in gross error? It makes no sense! The main reason that some Theologians take this tact is that they have been taught the Jewish tradition that when Christ comes, He's going to free the earthly captivity, bring earthly peace, and reign literally on this earth, blah, blah, blah. Believing this, they seek to discredit any view that Christ won't reign on the earth in literal (the middle east) Jerusalem.

 

[Douggg]

Why would Luke 21 end with the rapture rather than the end of this age, that assuming the end of that chapter is not meaning the 2nd coming but is meaning the rapture that occurs years earlier? Especially the fact that the disciples also inquired about the end of this age.That's a bizarre way to end that chapter. Apparently, the same is true in both Matthew 24 and Mark 13 as well, that Jesus ends those chapters with the rapture and not the end of this age instead, that too assuming the end of these chapters are not meaning the 2nd coming but are meaning the rapture that occurs years earlier.

Prior to instructing Christians to be watching for his coming (for the rapture), Jesus was speaking about the severity of the great tribulation. How much time between the rapture and the beginning of the great tribulation cannot be determined.

 

[Navair2]

and the sign Jesus gives that signals the end of the Tribulation and just before His coming, is the 6th seal.

I see that the sixth seal is right before the 7th, and that is before any of the 7 trumpets sound.

He comes at the 7th ( last ) trumpet, as it is sounding,
and when the Tribulation is at its worst.

 

[Navair2]

So, basically, it's seven seals first ( that open the book...start at Revelation 5:2 ),
then the seals are opened one by one with corresponding events ( see Revelation 6 ).
After that comes the 7th seal in Revelation 8...
When this is opened, there is silence in Heaven for half an hour ( Revelation 8:1).

The trumpets begin to sound,
with each one releasing a more terrible event as they each sound.

In Revelation 11:15, the seventh sounds, heralding the coming of the Lord.
The angel says, "The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

Revelation chapters 12 through 14 speak of things both past and future...
the war in Heaven when Satan and 1/3 of the angels are cast down to earth has already taken place.
Also, the woman being chased by the dragon when she is ready to be delivered of a man-child...
Jesus Christ was born at Bethlehem, and Herod send his soldiers to kill Him.

In Revelation 15, we see 7 angels with the 7 last plagues ( vials of wrath, see Revelation 16:1 ).
They then start pouring them out, one by one.
At the seventh vial, it is all over ( Revelation 16:17-21 ).

In other words, all seven vials are poured out during the sounding of the last trumpet.

The Lord comes again, has the beast and the false prophet are cast into the Lake of Fire ( Revelation 19:17-21 ).
He then has Satan bound and cast in the Bottomless Pit for 1,000 years.
We will rule and reign with Him, from Jerusalem.
After that, he is set loose for a season, and the Lord Jesus has one more victory over Satan and those who have been deceived into following him, and then comes the Judgment ( Revelation 20 ).

New heavens and new earth follow ( Revelation 21 ).


I figured I'd run through it all ( I realize that I've left some things out, only hitting the "high points" ),
so someone can compare notes.

 

[Navair2]

How much time between the rapture and the beginning of the great tribulation cannot be determined.

That's because it's at the end ( Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27 ):

" Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

" But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."

 

[ewq1938]

the war in Heaven when Satan and 1/3 of the angels are cast down to earth has already taken place.

Actually 1/3 stars are cast down before the war in heaven begins:

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Whatever this casting down of stars is, it happened before the birth of Christ.


Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[Jamdoc]

I see that the sixth seal is right before the 7th, and that is before any of the 7 trumpets sound.

He comes at the 7th ( last ) trumpet, as it is sounding,
and when the Tribulation is at its worst.

Here's the thing.
Paul was communicating to the Corinthians.
He would not be talking about the 7th trumpet of God's wrath, that is bare minimum 5 months if not years after the 6th seal, because that'd make no sense to the Corinthians. He didn't explain the trumpet judgements, that's only in Revelation, a book that would not be written for decades after Paul taught the Corinthians. Paul didn't even tell them to wait for a book written by John that would explain what last trump means.
So.. I think what Paul was talking about had nothing to do with the trumpet judgements.
The trumpet that Paul was talking about was a call to assembly, the trumpets of God's wrath pronounce judgement.

There will be a trumpet at the rapture. but it will not be one pronouncing judgement, but rather a call.to assemble with our Lord in the sky.

but the key thing about the timing of the sixth seal. Jesus said the sun and moon don't darken until after the tribulation.
So what does that mean?
When the Sun and Moon darken, the Tribulation is over.

 

[Navair2]

Whatever this casting down of stars is, it happened before the birth of Christ.

Agreed.

 

[Navair2]

The trumpet that Paul was talking about was a call to assembly, the trumpets of God's wrath pronounce judgement.

There will be a trumpet at the rapture. but it will not be one pronouncing judgement, but rather a call.to assemble with our Lord in the sky.

To me they are one and the same.

Compare these parallel accounts:
Matthew 24:31:
" And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Mark 13:27:
" And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."


...with what Paul told the Corinthians:
" Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 ).



Here I see that at the last trump, He shall gather His elect...
They shall all be raised incorruptible.

I do not see two "last trumpets" mentioned in the Scriptures.
That is why I associate it with the seventh and last.

The seventh is the last.

 

[Jamdoc]

To me they are one and the same.

Compare these parallel accounts:
Matthew 24:31:
" And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Mark 13:27:
" And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."


...with what Paul told the Corinthians:
" Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." ( 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 ).



Here I see that at the last trump, He shall gather His elect...
They shall all be raised incorruptible.

I do not see two "last trumpets" mentioned in the Scriptures.
That is why I associate it with the seventh and last.

The seventh is the last.

It's a completely different trumpet. The last trump Paul was referring to was the last trump of assembly. If you know anything about Jewish feasts, the Feast of Trumpets has 100 trumpet blasts calling people to assemble for holy convocation. I've heard the last blast of the trumpets for that feast is called the "call of awakening"
Considering Christ fulfilled the spring feasts in His first coming it is likely that He fulfills the fall feasts with His second coming, and no, that's not the 7 trumpets considering those don't all happen at the same time, the 5th trumpet takes 5 months long.
The trumpets of judgement serve an entirely different purpose. It's not a call to assemble, it's a pronouncement of judgement.
Totally different.

 

[Timtofly]

The issue came up, asking me the above question.

The pre-trib rapture requires that the rapture MUST take place before the 70th week of Daniel 9 begins.

Differently the anytime rapture considers that the rapture MAY take place before the 70th week of Daniel 9 - just as pretrib - but different from pretrib, the anytime rapture view contends that the rapture may happen after the 70th week begins. i.e. anytime before the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.

pre-trib - before the Antichrist confirms the covenant to begin the 70th week.
anytime - before the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act.


Here are two diagrams showing the difference between the pre-trib rapture view and the anytime rapture view.

For those who accept Jesus Christ and His Revelation is the 70th week of Daniel, there is no pre-trib. The 70th week is not 7 years of tribulation, period. The 70th week is the ministry of Jesus Christ on the earth. The trib starts at the Second Coming and stops at the start of the 7th Trumpet. 7 is the number of completion. In the book of Revelation 2 sets of 7's. The Trumpets and the Thunders. Trumpets for the House of Jacob. Thunders for the Nations. Two completions brought together as one final week of days with the 7th Trumpet. This week of days could be split by Satan's desolation. While 42 months is the same as 3.5 years, and 1260 days, it is a number that must be associated with Satan himself. Crazy note: that a science fiction writer by name of Douglas Adams mentions 42 is the answer, but no one remembers the most important question in existence. So how can Satan be given the 2nd half of the Revelation of Christ as the final week of Daniel 9, given to us by Gabriel from God? The answer should not be 42.

The answer is that the 70th week is only time spent by Jesus Christ Himself and it is not 3.5 years, because the time keeps getting shorter for the sake of those who names are written in the Lamb's book of life (the elect). Once the 7th Seal is opened, names will be blotted out. The first to go are the goats of Matthew 25. Then during the Thunders, the tares will be removed from the Lamb's book of life. The church already gone at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. Also the 7 years started at the Baptism of Jesus 3.5 years before the Cross during the 1st coming.

The 7th Trumpet cannot finish the 70th week, until Jesus Christ comes and completes His part of the final harvest. The sheep and wheat along with the 144k are harvested firstfruits of the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.

Nothing about Satan's 42 months need happen to complete the 70th week. The sound of the 7th Trumpet is what is split in half by Satan's desolation. This is a 42 month gap, just like the 1991 years was a gap in the life of Christ for the fulness of the Gentiles. When Messiah is cut off, but not for Himself, that already completed the first half. Now this 42 month gap is for those beheaded.

The church and the final harvest have to endure 42 months watching every second on earth hoping many if not all get their heads chopped off. The desolation was not for the church or the firstfruits. The church and firstfruits were "cut off" in their celebration (the 7th Trumpet) for the sake of all who would be beheaded. Those beheaded are resurrected in Revelation 20:4. The last of Adam's flesh to be given incorruptible bodies. They are judged and blessed and cannot be touched by the second death at the GWT.

So there is no coming post Christ already on earth during the final harvest directed by Jesus Christ Himself from His Throne in Jerusalem. Only if the throne is vacated and given to Satan for 42 months, will Christ have the need to return at Armageddon to take it back and lock Satan up for 1000 years. See why there is no good question for the answer of 42 months? Why does a wise church think being beheaded is a bright idea to "endure until one's head is chopped off"? Loosing one's head is the only ticket to escape the Lake of Fire post being ready.

 

[Douggg]

That's because it's at the end ( Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27 ):

"it" I am assuming you are referring to the rapture/resurrection.

Those verses are about being at the end of the great tribulation. The rapture takes place before the beginning of the great tribulation.

One of the problems with the post-trib view is that there is no window of not knowing - when the rapture can take place, thus negating everything Jesus said about keeping a watch in Matthew 24:42, and the world being at ease when the rapture/resurrection takes place.

Matthew 24:31 is the gathering of the house of Israel back to the land of Israel. It is not the rapture/resurrection. Matthew 24:31 corresponds to Ezekiel 39:28 which none of the house of Israel is left in the nation after Jesus has returned Ezekiel 39:21-29.

The beginning of the great tribulation is on day 1185 of the 7 years. i.e. 1335 days (from Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus returns on day 2520 to end the great tribulation.

During the great tribulation, God's wrath is poured out on the earth, i.e. the vials of God's wrath.

Since it says in 1Thessalonians5 , that we (Christians) are not appointed to wrath, but Salvation, the rapture/resurrection takes place before the wrath of God takes place.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

 

[Douggg]

For those who accept Jesus Christ and His Revelation is the 70th week of Daniel, there is no pre-trib. The 70th week is not 7 years of tribulation, period. The 70th week is the ministry of Jesus Christ on the earth. The trib starts at the Second Coming and stops at the start of the 7th Trumpet. 7 is the number of completion. In the book of Revelation 2 sets of 7's. The Trumpets and the Thunders. Trumpets for the House of Jacob. Thunders for the Nations. Two completions brought together as one final week of days with the 7th Trumpet. This week of days could be split by Satan's desolation. While 42 months is the same as 3.5 years, and 1260 days, it is a number that must be associated with Satan himself. Crazy note: that a science fiction writer by name of Douglas Adams mentions 42 is the answer, but no one remembers the most important question in existence. So how can Satan be given the 2nd half of the Revelation of Christ as the final week of Daniel 9, given to us by Gabriel from God? The answer should not be 42.

The answer is that the 70th week is only time spent by Jesus Christ Himself and it is not 3.5 years, because thevtime keeps getting shorter for the sake of those who names are written in the Lamb's book of life. Once the 7th Seal is opened, names will be blotted out. The first to go are the goats of Matthew 25. Then during the Thunders, the tares will be removed from the Lamb's book of life. The church already gone at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal.

The 7th Trumpet cannot finish the 70th week, until Jesus Christ comes and completes His part of the final harvest. The sheep and wheat along with the 144k are harvested firstfruits of the 1000 year reign of Christ on the earth.

Nothing about Satan's 42 months need happen to complete the 70th week. The sound of the 7th Trumpet is what is split in half by Satan's desolation. This is a 42 month gap, just like the 1991 years was a gap in the life of Christ, when Messiah is cut off, but not for Himself. Now this 42 month gap is for those beheaded. The church and the final harvest have to endure 42 months watching every second on earth hoping many if not all get their heads chopped off. The desolation was not for the church or the firstfruits. The church and firstfruits were "cut off" in their celebration (the 7th Trumpet) for the sake of all who would be beheaded. Those beheaded are resurrected in Revelation 20:4. The last of Adam's flesh to be given incorruptible bodies. They are judged and blessed and cannot be touched by the second death at the GWT.

So there is no coming post Christ already on earth during the final harvest directed by Jesus Christ Himself from His Throne in Jerusalem. Only if the throne is vacated and given to Satan for 42 months, will Christ have the need to return at Armageddon to take it back and lock Satan up for 1000 years. See why there is no good question for the answer of 42 months? Why does a wise church think being beheaded is a bright idea to "endure until one's head is chopped off"? Loosing one's head is the only ticket to escape the Lake of Fire post being ready.

Without a timeline chart reflecting your thoughts, no one can understand the end times timeline you have written your thoughts on because it is so fragmented in your written presentation.

 

[Timtofly]

Without a timeline chart reflecting your thoughts, no one can understand the end times timeline you have written your thoughts on because it is so fragmented in your written presentation.

Pre 70th week - John the Baptist baptizing in the Jordan River.

First 3.5 years - The baptism of Jesus to the ascension.

Second half of any time between 3.5 years to 5 months. There is no full 3.5 years - Trumpets and Thunders. Christ came at the 6th Seal for the Second Coming. Sets up throne. Final harvest.

7th Trumpet- end of 70th week.

Millennium starts.



Alternative ending - 7th Trumpet interrupted mid week (of days). Satan is given throne. 42 months of desolation, finished with 7 vials and Armageddon.

Millennium starts.


The Second Coming and rapture happen at the same time Paul, Jesus, and John declare. Which is the 6th Seal. The archangel brings the Trumpet of God that sounds. After the other 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders, the archangel sounds for a week of days to end the 70th week. That archangel may be Gabriel as He heralded the birth of Jesus and told Daniel about the 70 weeks. He is the Archangel that blows the Trumpet at the beginning of the last half of the 70th week, and after the judgments of the final harvest. The 7th sounding is to complete the 70 weeks.

That souls are still on earth would be the reason time is extended 42 months. Many will be beheaded to be resurrected in Revelation 20:4

It is an any time, rapture, Second Coming, and tribulation. Because no one can know until it starts how long it will last. It will be over soon though. It has been 1991 years, and cannot go past the 2000 year mark from the Cross. The Atonement has to be confirmed within that time frame, even the 42 months, if they are to happen. So God already shortened the time by 42 months to take that into account.

 

[Douggg]

Pre 70th week - John the Baptist baptizing in the Jordan River.

First 3.5 years - The baptism of Jesus to the ascension.

Second half of any time between 3.5 years to 5 months. There is no full 3.5 years - Trumpets and Thunders. Christ came at the 6th Seal for the Second Coming. Sets up throne. Final harvest.

7th Trumpet- end of 70th week.

Millennium starts.



Alternative ending - 7th Trumpet interrupted mid week (of days). Satan is given throne. 42 months of desolation, finished with 7 vials and Armageddon.

Millennium starts.


The Second Coming and rapture happen at the same time Paul, Jesus, and John declare. Which is the 6th Seal. The archangel brings the Trumpet of God that sounds. After the other 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders, the archangel sounds for a week of days to end the 70th week. That archangel may be Gabriel as He heralded the birth of Jesus and told Daniel about the 70 weeks. He is the Archangel that blows the Trumpet at the beginning of the last half of the 70th week, and after the judgments of the final harvest. The 7th sounding is to complete the 70 weeks.

That souls are still on earth would be the reason time is extended 42 months. Many will be beheaded to be resurrected in Revelation 20:4

It is an any time, rapture, Second Coming, and tribulation. Because no one can know until it starts how long it will last. It will be over soon though. It has been 1991 years, and cannot go past the 2000 year mark from the Cross. The Atonement has to be confirmed within that time frame, even the 42 months, if they are to happen. So God already shortened the time by 42 months to take that into account.

Tim, for others to understand your far from traditional teachings on bible prophecy and end time events - you need to learn how to make a chart and put events on the chart.

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Actually 1/3 stars are cast down before the war in heaven begins:

Whatever this casting down of stars is, it happened before the birth of Christ.

Where in the Gospels did it say that 33% of stars fell to the ground? Where are these stars now, and why isn't the earth the size of the Andromeda galaxy if literally 33% of the universe came to earth at once? Gravity sticks, so we'd be a billion light years in circumference if this had happened. I don't recall the star of Bethelem falling to the ground, or any other massive asteroids, comets, or meteors landing before the birth of Christ. Where in scripture is this interpretation corroborated? Where in Scripture does it say a war in heaven begins before Jesus came in the flesh?

 

[Navair2]

It's a completely different trumpet. The last trump Paul was referring to was the last trump of assembly. If you know anything about Jewish feasts, the Feast of Trumpets has 100 trumpet blasts calling people to assemble for holy convocation. I've heard the last blast of the trumpets for that feast is called the "call of awakening"
Considering Christ fulfilled the spring feasts in His first coming it is likely that He fulfills the fall feasts with His second coming, and no, that's not the 7 trumpets considering those don't all happen at the same time, the 5th trumpet takes 5 months long.
The trumpets of judgement serve an entirely different purpose. It's not a call to assemble, it's a pronouncement of judgement.
Totally different.

While I respect your opinion, I also respectfully disagree.

I suppose we'll have to leave it at that.