Filippus

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Now lastly if you choose GRACE, you have to deny yourself.

Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me.
Matthew 16:24

In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
Hebrews 12:4

Shalom
 
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BobRyan

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Can you clarify which Commandments from the New Covenant you are actually referring to, or are you proposing a different Gospel to what the Apostles presented?...

You are either under the New Covenant or the Old covenant, there isn't a third option.

Step 1. Read the actual New Covenant

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

1. The term "LAW" - as in Law of God - is determined by the writer and his audience - so in this case both Jeremiah and his audience know about the spoken Law of God - written on stone by God Himself.
2. The covenant promises a new heart - in harmony with God's Law
3. The covenant promises new birth, adoption into the family of God
4. The covenant promises forgiveness of sins

IT is quoted verbatim - unchanged - in the New Testament in Heb 8:6-12

Jesus said "keep the Commandments" in Matt 19 and is asked "Which ones" at which point Jesus quotes exclusively from the Law of Moses.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that the command in Ex 20:12 is the "first commandment with a promise" - out of that TEN which makes the TEN included in that moral law of God applicable to all mankind - which almost all scholars in all denominations of the Christian church - affirm.
 
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BPPLEE

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You did not read the post you were quoting from did you.

Ezekiel 46:1-3 [1], THUS SAID THE LORD GOD; The gate of the inner court that looks toward the east shall be shut the six working days; BUT ON THE SABBATH IT SHALL BE OPENED, AND IN THE DAY OF THE NEW MOON IT SHALL BE OPENED. [2], And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and HE SHALL WORSHIP AT THE THRESHOLD OF THE GATE: THEN HE SHALL GO FORTH; BUT THE GATE SHALL NOT BE SHUT UNTIL THE EVENING. [3], Likewise THE PEOPLE OF THE LAND SHALL WORSHIP AT THE DOOR OF THIS GATE BEFORE THE LORD IN THE SABBATHS and in the new moons.

and again here....

Isaiah 66:22-23 [22], For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, SAID THE LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. [23], And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and FROM ONE SABBATH TO ANOTHER, SHALL ALL FLESH COME TO WORSHIP BEFORE ME, said the LORD.

Note: the scriptures above is God saying that the Sabbath is a day of worship. So please do not make claims that God's 4th commandment is not about worship when the scriptures clearly show that God's 4th commandment is all about who we worship.

Take Care.
Col 2:16


Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
 
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BPPLEE

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That is the way I understand it ~
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Despite SDA claims do you really think it's possible after all this time and changes to the calendars that we are counting the same days that Moses was? Are you sure that our seventh day is the same as his?
 
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BobRyan

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For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" - a command right out of the law of moses

but Jesus points out in Matt 22 that for Christians "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 is an even greater commandment than the Lev 19:18 one.

even in the NT "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19

You are either under the New Covenant or the Old covenant, there isn't a third option.

Agreed.

Now if you keep one law, you are required to keep the whole LAW, therefore if you insist on the 4th commandment, you are required to keep the whole LAW.

However I choose Grace.

There is no text saying that if you fail to commit adultery or take God's name in vain today -- then you are not under grace.

In fact " I write these things to you that you sin NOT" 1 John 2:1 and "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

Rom 6: "15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

"do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

No wonder then that John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

1 Cor 6:
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 2:13 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED"

Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father will enter".

Turns out - that brings us back to 1 Cor 6:9-10
 
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Despite SDA claims do you really think it's possible after all this time and changes to the calendars that we are counting the same days that Moses was? Are you sure that our seventh day is the same as his?

We can be certain that Jesus kept the right day as Sabbath and we know what day of the Roman week that was for citizens under Rome 2000 years ago - so do the Jews.

It is funny that no one questions that Sunday is the first day of the week mentioned in the Bible as the day of Jesus' resurrection -- but some are really confused on how that makes Saturday -- day seven of that very same week.

And someone how that confusion can be blamed on "SDAs"?? I don't understand how you get there.
 
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BobRyan

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Col 2:16


Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17

Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

1. Lev 23 points to annual holy days - given in animal sacrifice pointing to the death of Christ.
2. Matt 7 says not to judge others - and so does Col 2. No change pre-cross and post-cross.
 
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BPPLEE

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We can be certain that Jesus kept the right day as Sabbath and we know what day of the Roman week that was for citizens under Rome 2000 years ago - so do the Jews.

It is funny that no one questions that Sunday is the first day of the week mentioned in the Bible as the day of Jesus' resurrection -- but some are really confused on how that makes Saturday -- day seven of that very same week.

And someone how that confusion can be blamed on "SDAs"?? I don't understand how you get there.
I have no confidence that Sunday is on the same schedule it was on 2,000 years ago
 
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BobRyan

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I have no confidence that Sunday is on the same schedule it was on 2,000 years ago

Of course there are one or two people in that boat so I am not objecting of course.

meanwhile - in actual historic record we have this...

==========================


Cassius Dio (Lived 155-235 AD)
(describing Pompey’s conquest of Jerusalem in 63 BC) “16 Most
of the city, to be sure, he took without any trouble, as he was re-
ceived by the party of Hyrcanus; but the temple itself, which the
other party had occupied, he captured only with difficulty. 2 For
it was on high ground and was fortified by a wall of its own, and
if they had continued defending it on all days alike, he could not
have got possession of it. As it was, they made an exception of
what are called the days of Saturn (Greek: tou Kronou de ono-
mas), and by doing no work at all on those days afforded the
Romans an opportunity in this interval to batter down the wall.
3The latter, on learning of this superstitious awe of theirs, made
no serious attempts the rest of the time, but on those days, when
they came round in succession, assaulted most vigorously. 4 Thus
the defenders were captured on the day of Saturn (Greek: tou
Kronou hamera), without making any defence, and all the
wealth was plundered... 3 They build to him a temple that was
extremely large and beautiful, except in so far as it was open and
roofless, and likewise dedicated to him the day called the day
of Saturn (Greek: hameran ten tou Kronou), on which, among
many other most peculiar observances, they undertake no serious
occupation” (Roman History, 37.16.1-4, 17.3).

(describing the Roman conquest of Jerusalem under Herod in 37
BC) “The Jews, indeed, had done much injury to the Romans, for
the race is very bitter when aroused to anger, but they suffered far
more themselves. The first of them to be captures were those who
were fighting for the precinct of their god, and then the rest on the
day even then called the day of Saturn (Greek: tou Kronou kai
tote hamera...). 5 And so excessive were they in their devotion
to religion that the first set of prisoners, those who has been cap-
tured along with the temple, obtained leave from Sosius, when
the day of Saturn (Greek: hamera authis he tou Kronou)

19

came round again, and went up into the temple and there per-
formed all the customary rites, together with the rest of the peo-
ple...” (ibid, 49.22.4-5).

(concerning Vespasian’s conquest of Jerusalem in 70 AD) “Yet
even under these conditions many captives were taken, among
them Bargiora, their leader; and he was the only one to be execut-
ed in connexion with the triumphal celebration. 2 Thus was Jeru-
salem destroyed on the very day of Saturn (Greek: tou Kronou
hamera), the day which even now the Jews reverence
most
...” (ibid, 65.7.1-2).

================


The Bible says it was the first day of the week and calendar science tells us that the day we know as Sunday is the first day of the week in the Gospels.


The Julian Calendar came into use in 45 B.C. and from historic documents we know the relationship between Julian week days and Jewish days of the week used in the Gospels. So then we know the days of the week in ancient Rome at the time of Christ and how they map to our week days.


Sunday has been the first day and Saturday the seventh day since Roman times in the Julian calendar. Even non-Christian groups such as Jews know this ordering of the week and that the 7th day is Saturday making the first day Sunday.

==================


Has the 7-Day Week Cycle Ever Been Interrupted?

There is no record of the 7-day week cycle ever having been broken. Calendar changes and reform have never interrupted the 7-day cycles. It very likely that the week cycles have run uninterrupted at least since the days of Moses (c. 1400 B.C.E.), possibly even longer.

http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/week.html#date


1. Has the 7 day weekly cycle ever changed?
a. Week - Wikipedia
b. All Scholars agree that 1000 years BC – Israel used the same 7 day week that was being observed in Christ’s day and that it was very likely in use during the time of the Judges as well.

It is clear that among neighboring nations that were in position to have an influence over Israel – and in fact which did influence it in various matters – there is no precise parallel to the Israelite Sabbatical week. This leads to the conclusion that the Sabbatical week, which is as unique to Israel as the Sabbath from which it flows, is an independent Israelite creation.[13][15]

The seven day week was widely known throughout the Roman Empire by the 1st century AD,[17] along with references to the Jewish Sabbath by Roman scholars such as Seneca and Ovid.[19] The seven day cycle ultimately replaced the older Roman system of the nundinal cycle, probably during the 4th century.

==============

But as you seem to suggest "what if all history and all scholars are wrong"?
 
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BobRyan

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Everyone has free will of course - and anyone that wishes to could take a "deny all" approach to pretty much anything they wish.

But on the flip side of that coin - is the fact that an amazing amount of agreement exists among scholars on both sides of the Sabbath debate when it comes to "certain details".

The Baptist Confession of Faith – section 19, calls the TEN commands “the moral law of God” applicable to all mankind. We see the same thing in the Westminster Confession of Faith section 19. Many Christian scholars in almost all denominations affirm the Ten as we can see in the case of D.L. Moody in his sermon on the Ten Commandments, and in the case of C.H. Spurgeon in his framing of the Confession of faith, and in the Catholic Catechism’s statements on the Ten Commandments, and in Dies Domini written by Pope John Paul II regarding the Ten Commandments. In Revelation 14:12 we are told that the saints “keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus”,
 
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Of course there are one or two people in that boat so I am not objecting of course.

meanwhile - in actual historic record we have this...

==========================


Cassius Dio (Lived 155-235 AD)
(describing Pompey’s conquest of Jerusalem in 63 BC) “16 Most
of the city, to be sure, he took without any trouble, as he was re-
ceived by the party of Hyrcanus; but the temple itself, which the
other party had occupied, he captured only with difficulty. 2 For
it was on high ground and was fortified by a wall of its own, and
if they had continued defending it on all days alike, he could not
have got possession of it. As it was, they made an exception of
what are called the days of Saturn (Greek: tou Kronou de ono-
mas), and by doing no work at all on those days afforded the
Romans an opportunity in this interval to batter down the wall.
3The latter, on learning of this superstitious awe of theirs, made
no serious attempts the rest of the time, but on those days, when
they came round in succession, assaulted most vigorously. 4 Thus
the defenders were captured on the day of Saturn (Greek: tou
Kronou hamera), without making any defence, and all the
wealth was plundered... 3 They build to him a temple that was
extremely large and beautiful, except in so far as it was open and
roofless, and likewise dedicated to him the day called the day
of Saturn (Greek: hameran ten tou Kronou), on which, among
many other most peculiar observances, they undertake no serious
occupation” (Roman History, 37.16.1-4, 17.3).

(describing the Roman conquest of Jerusalem under Herod in 37
BC) “The Jews, indeed, had done much injury to the Romans, for
the race is very bitter when aroused to anger, but they suffered far
more themselves. The first of them to be captures were those who
were fighting for the precinct of their god, and then the rest on the
day even then called the day of Saturn (Greek: tou Kronou kai
tote hamera...). 5 And so excessive were they in their devotion
to religion that the first set of prisoners, those who has been cap-
tured along with the temple, obtained leave from Sosius, when
the day of Saturn (Greek: hamera authis he tou Kronou)

19

came round again, and went up into the temple and there per-
formed all the customary rites, together with the rest of the peo-
ple...” (ibid, 49.22.4-5).

(concerning Vespasian’s conquest of Jerusalem in 70 AD) “Yet
even under these conditions many captives were taken, among
them Bargiora, their leader; and he was the only one to be execut-
ed in connexion with the triumphal celebration. 2 Thus was Jeru-
salem destroyed on the very day of Saturn (Greek: tou Kronou
hamera), the day which even now the Jews reverence
most
...” (ibid, 65.7.1-2).

================


The Bible says it was the first day of the week and calendar science tells us that the day we know as Sunday is the first day of the week in the Gospels.


The Julian Calendar came into use in 45 B.C. and from historic documents we know the relationship between Julian week days and Jewish days of the week used in the Gospels. So then we know the days of the week in ancient Rome at the time of Christ and how they map to our week days.


Sunday has been the first day and Saturday the seventh day since Roman times in the Julian calendar. Even non-Christian groups such as Jews know this ordering of the week and that the 7th day is Saturday making the first day Sunday.

==================


Has the 7-Day Week Cycle Ever Been Interrupted?

There is no record of the 7-day week cycle ever having been broken. Calendar changes and reform have never interrupted the 7-day cycles. It very likely that the week cycles have run uninterrupted at least since the days of Moses (c. 1400 B.C.E.), possibly even longer.

http://www.webexhibits.org/calendars/week.html#date


1. Has the 7 day weekly cycle ever changed?
a. Week - Wikipedia
b. All Scholars agree that 1000 years BC – Israel used the same 7 day week that was being observed in Christ’s day and that it was very likely in use during the time of the Judges as well.

It is clear that among neighboring nations that were in position to have an influence over Israel – and in fact which did influence it in various matters – there is no precise parallel to the Israelite Sabbatical week. This leads to the conclusion that the Sabbatical week, which is as unique to Israel as the Sabbath from which it flows, is an independent Israelite creation.[13][15]

The seven day week was widely known throughout the Roman Empire by the 1st century AD,[17] along with references to the Jewish Sabbath by Roman scholars such as Seneca and Ovid.[19] The seven day cycle ultimately replaced the older Roman system of the nundinal cycle, probably during the 4th century.

==============

But as you seem to suggest "what if all history and all scholars are wrong"?
I can't find anything contrary
 
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BobRyan

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I can't find anything contrary

Good point.

It says that the first century Romans considered the Jewish Sabbath to be on Saturn's day... called Saturday.

Saturday - Wikipedia

Those who oppose this may make an argument seems to be of the form - that the people living at the time of Christ were wrong to call the 7th day Saturn's day and to notice that it is the day the Jews kept as the Sabbath - since they could not possibly know that such a connection existed -- not even by observing the practices going on in their day.

But I would find that idea confusing.
 
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Well it says that the first century Romans considered the Jewish Sabbath to be on Saturn's day... called Saturday.

Saturday - Wikipedia

Your argument seems to be that the people living at the time of Christ were wrong to call the 7th day Saturn's day and to notice that it is the day the Jews kept as the Sabbath - since they could not possibly know that such a connection existed -- not even by observing the practices going on in their day.

I find that idea confusing.
I just told you I couldn't find anything that contradicts your claims. Did you not understand? Let me be more specific, you seem to be right about this. The best I can tell we've had the same days of the week since at least 800 BC maybe longer
 
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BobRyan

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I just told you I couldn't find anything that contradicts your claims. Did you not understand? Let me be more specific, you seem to be right about this. The best I can tell we've had the same days of the week since at least 800 BC maybe longer

Agreed -- sorry for my getting confused on that.

So then the real issue is whether or not Christ - as the incarnate God the Son would have known that the Sabbath (Saturday) He was keeping had been changed maybe 800 or 900 BC and that it was the wrong day.

The easiest assumption is that - if Christ approved it 2000 years ago then it is ok for me to approve of it today. That way - when I get to heaven and God says "well as it turns out 900 years BC the day got lost / changed" I can always say "well I chose to follow Christ's lead on what to do in that case --- so I'm with HIM".

I think that would be safe to say even in heaven, even IF they were to reveal some sort of unknown 900BC change to me at that time.

Because the "OTHER" alternative is "it was never changed... God preserved it... Christ shows His approval of the day 2000 years ago...and I have no excuse for imagining anything different". I prefer not to be in the "I have no excuse" scenario when I can avoid it. :)
 
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Filippus

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Step 1. Read the actual New Covenant

Jer 31:31-34
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

1. The term "LAW" - as in Law of God - is determined by the writer and his audience - so in this case both Jeremiah and his audience know about the spoken Law of God - written on stone by God Himself.
2. The covenant promises a new heart - in harmony with God's Law
3. The covenant promises new birth, adoption into the family of God
4. The covenant promises forgiveness of sins

IT is quoted verbatim - unchanged - in the New Testament in Heb 8:6-12

Jesus said "keep the Commandments" in Matt 19 and is asked "Which ones" at which point Jesus quotes exclusively from the Law of Moses.

Paul says in Eph 6:1-2 that the command in Ex 20:12 is the "first commandment with a promise" - out of that TEN which makes the TEN included in that moral law of God applicable to all mankind - which almost all scholars in all denominations of the Christian church - affirm.

If you go on in Romans chapter 6, to verse 14, it says: For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. So those are two mutually exclusive alternatives. You can be under law or you can be under grace but you cannot be under both at the same time.

And if you’re under law, you’re not under grace, and if you’re not under grace, you’re under law. The implications of what Paul says are very far reaching. He says sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under law but under grace.

The implication is, if you are under law, sin would have dominion over you. The only way to escape from the dominion of sin is to stop trying to keep a law and avail yourself of God’s grace.

Now in Romans 8:14, Paul says: For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Who are the real children of God? Those who are led regularly by the Holy Spirit. That’s the alternative to keeping a set of rules. You can keep the set of rules or you can be led by the Holy Spirit, but you can’t do both!

How long will it take before we realize we cannot do it on our own? It’s not our good works. It’s not our keeping rules. It’s the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of grace. As many as are regularly led by the Holy Spirit, these are the sons of God.

Galatians 5 in verse 18, Paul says: But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now he said earlier, as many as are led by the Spirit, these are the sons of God. So, you’ve got the choice. You can live like a son of God, be led by the Holy Spirit, or, you can turn your back on the Holy Spirit and try to keep the law. But you cannot combine the two or do both, they are mutually exclusive.

Fruit only comes by union. But what we are united to will determine what we bring forth. But if we are united, in union with Christ, then we will bring forth the fruit of the Spirit.

Romans 7:5, Paul says: For when we were in the flesh, the passions of sins which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

That’s an amazing statement, isn’t it? The passions of sins which were by the law. In other words, Paul says: The law stirred up sinful passions.

1 Corinthians 15, verse 56. This is one of those breathtaking statements. The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.

Romans 7, he says: There’s nothing wrong with the law, it’s perfect. The problem is in us.

The law works from without. It says do this, don’t do that. And you say: Okay, I’ll do this and I won’t do that.

And in doing so you are trusting on your own ability. And that’s the problem, because you don’t have the ability to do what is right and avoid what is wrong.

But you see, the essential nature of our flesh is to trust in ourselves and not to want to depend on God.


And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

Now if our fruit or our works or our deeds or commandments that we hold dear doesn't produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit, it's not done through the COMMANDMENT of Love!

By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

Sholom
 
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Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" - a command right out of the law of moses

but Jesus points out in Matt 22 that for Christians "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 is an even greater commandment than the Lev 19:18 one.

even in the NT "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 and "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of GOD" 1 Cor 7:19



Agreed.



There is no text saying that if you fail to commit adultery or take God's name in vain today -- then you are not under grace.

In fact " I write these things to you that you sin NOT" 1 John 2:1 and "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4.

Rom 6: "15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under the Law but under grace? Far from it! 16 Do you not know that the one to whom you present yourselves as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of that same one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

"do we make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

No wonder then that John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 3:7
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.

1 Cor 6:
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Rom 2:13 "it is not the hearers of the LAW that are just before God but the DOERS of the Law will be JUSTIFIED"

Matt 7 "not everyone who SAYS 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven but he who DOES the will of My Father will enter".

Turns out - that brings us back to 1 Cor 6:9-10

Romans 8:3-4: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh – Notice, there’s nothing wrong with the law, it’s our weakness. What the law could not do — God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh — Now, what’s the positive? — that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

What is the righteous requirement of the law?

It’s LOVE. Love is the righteous requirement of the law.

Matthew 22 verse 35: Then one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, testing him and saying, Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? A specific question and Jesus gave an immediate, specific answer.

Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. What’s the keyword? Love. Love for God, love for our neighbor.

And then Jesus commented, On these two commandments hang the law and the prophets.

Now, these commandments are the peg on which the whole law and the prophets are hung.

In other words, when you’ve read all the law and the prophets, what it’s saying is: love God, love your neighbor. That is the righteous requirement of the law.

And then in Romans 13, verse 8 and following, Paul says: Owe no one anything, except to love one another for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

There’s one ddebt we can never get out of.

To love my fellow Christians, to love my fellow human beings. I owe that. I’m continually in debt; I cannot get out of that debt
.

Paul goes on: Romans 13: 9-10: For the commandments, ‘You shall not commit adultery’, ‘you shall not murder’, ‘you shall not steal’, ‘you shall not bear false witness’, ‘you shall not covet‘, and if there’s any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’. Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. That’s very clear, isn’t it?

And then in Galatians 5:14. It’s marvelous how Romans and Galatians kind of hang together. Galatians 5:14: For all the law is fulfilled in one word... All the law is fulfilled in one word — even in this, you shall love your neighbor as yourself.

And then a little further back in Galatians 5:6, it says: For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything but faith working through love.

How does faith work? Through love.

In James it says, Faith without works is dead. And faith works by love, so you come to this equation: Faith without love is dead.

That’s a shocking statement but it’s true. You can have all the faith that you claim, you can keep the law, but if there’s no love in your life, it’s a dead faith!!!!!

And then we read in 1 Timothy 1:5: Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience and from sincere faith, from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk.

You see, law motivates us through fear. But Jesus motivates us through love. He says, If you love me, you will keep my commandments. Fear doesn’t produce the results. What is Jesus's commandments???

Remember our obedience of love is progressive. You’re not perfect in love? Okay. Join me. I’m not perfect in love either. But that doesn’t mean I’m not accounted righteous. Because until we achieve the goal, our faith is accounted to us for righteousness. Can you receive that?

That means the righteous requirement of the Law is fulfilled in me when I listen to Jesus's commandment to commit in Loving God by DENYING myself and Loving my neighbor and placing them above myself.

As long as you continue believing, your faith is counted to you for righteousness. This is wonderfully exemplified by the words of Jesus to Peter at the Last Supper. He said, Peter, you’re going to deny me three times.

Peter said, Not I, never.

And then Jesus said, But I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail.

What’s the really important thing? That our faith will not fail.

We may make a lot of mistakes, we may even commit sins. We haven’t arrived, we’re not perfect. But as long as we continue believing, our faith is accounted to us for righteousness until we arrive.

James 1:25: But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the Word, this one will be blessed in what he does.

What is the perfect law of liberty in one word? LOVE!

You see, if you really love, really love, you’re a totally free person, because you can always do what you want through the Commandment of Love.

You can always love people. They may snub you, they may persecute you, they may even try to kill you. But they cannot stop you loving them. The person whose motivation is love is the only totally free person in the world.

But it starts every day by DENYING yourself. Not keep a law.

Shalom

 
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SabbathBlessings

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Romans 8:3-4: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh – Notice, there’s nothing wrong with the law, it’s our weakness. What the law could not do — God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh — Now, what’s the positive? — that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

What is the righteous requirement of the law?

It’s LOVE. Love is the righteous requirement of the law.

I hope you don’t mind me jumping in and I don’t have time to address everything in your post, but thought I would add a few highlights.

Romans 8 you didn’t quote the whole scripture, which is missing some critical parts to what it means to live by the flesh instead of living by the Spirit.

I’ll quote the whole passage for you….


Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

The law of God just points out sin, so we know what not to do. 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7. When we live by the Spirit we are subject to the law of God, but those who live by the flesh (sin) does not obey the law of God, but walk according to the flesh (sin). Those who are in the flesh (sin) cannot please God. Those spiritually minded walk according to the law of God. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

Love to God is keeping the commandments of God according to scripture. 1 John 5:3 and all of God’s commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172. When we live by our standards, or version of right-doing we are trying to save ourselves by our own works. Our righteousness doesn't save, which is why we need to depend on God’s righteousness and all of His commandments are righteous (right-doing). We should always obey God through love John 14:15, 1 John 5:3. Exodus 20:6 and because we have faith in God- that what He commands of us is because its for our own good. Romans 3:31, Revelation 14:12

Hope this helps.

God bless.
 
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BobRyan

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Romans 8:3-4: For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh – Notice, there’s nothing wrong with the law, it’s our weakness. What the law could not do — God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin, He condemned sin in the flesh — Now, what’s the positive? — that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit.

What is the righteous requirement of the law?

It’s LOVE. Love is the righteous requirement of the law.

1. A good example of a Rom 8:3-4 text that does not abolish or condemn the commandment to not take God's name in vain (for example).
2. A good example of a text that does not delete the statement that "this IS the LOVE of God that we keep His Commandments" 1 John 5:3 where "the first commandment with a promise - is 'Honor your father and mother'" - Eph 6:1-2

Essentially going once again to the texts posted here that you are not addressing.

==================================

Matthew 22 verse 35: Then one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, testing him and saying, Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? A specific question and Jesus gave an immediate, specific answer.

Jesus said to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. What’s the keyword? Love. Love for God, love for our neighbor.

And then Jesus commented, On these two commandments hang the law and the prophets.

Now, these commandments are the peg on which the whole law and the prophets are hung.

1. A good example of a Matt 22 text saying that all of known scripture is firmly founded on the part of the Law of Moses that says:
Love God with all your heart - Deut 6:5
Love your neighbor as yourself - Lev 19:18​

2. A good example of Jews in the pre-cross age testing Christ to see IF He knew which of the commandments were the greatest - and Christ gives the answer that they already knew to be the right one.

And then in Romans 13, verse 8 and following, Paul says: Owe no one anything, except to love one another for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

A good example of a text in harmony with Christ's answer accepted by the Jews in Matt 22 - that all the law is based on the two commandments (even though Rom 13 does not even mention the first and greatest one according to Christ).
 
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FredVB

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SabbathBlessings said:
The Sabbath is not different from the Old Covenant to the New- many try to spiritualize the Sabbath, where it is no longer recognizable to how we are supposed to obey this commandment. The Sabbath is still on the seventh day Exodus 20:10 and it is a day to cease from our works just as God did from His on the seventh day Hebrews 4:10, Hebrews 4:4, Genesis 2:1-3 and the Sabbath remains for God's people Hebrews 4:9. It's a day of no secular work Isaiah 58:13 and a day of worshipping the Lord Isaiah 66:22-23

The Sabbath is made for man Mark 2:27 and the Greek word for man is really mankind or human beings.

man,
ἄνθρωπον (anthrōpon)
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's 444: A man, one of the human race. From aner and ops; man-faced, i.e. A human being.

Humans (man) were made on the sixth day of Creation Genesis 1:26 and man celebrated the first Sabbath in the presence of God. Genesis 2:1-3, this was before sin and God's perfect plan. Sin separated man from God so now we must worship Him in truth and in Spirit. John 4:23-24 and soon once sin and sinners are destroyed man will once again worship the Lord in His presence every Sabbath Isaiah 66:23-23 on His holy day, just the way God always intended. The Sabbath is about communion with our Creator through reading His Word, Church Luke 4:16, Lev 23:3 Acts 18:4 and doing His ways on His holy day. God blesses and sanctifies when we keep His holy Sabbath day. Ezekiel 20:12, Isaiah 58:13-14

I agree with your post that the commandments were magnified by Jesus Isaiah 42:21 which means greater than the commandment but not changed. If we are keeping the spiritual aspect to the commandments, the letter will automatically be kept. As an example of this Jesus used, thou shalt not murder and it begins in the heart. Matthew 5:19-30 If our thoughts and feelings have been changed by Jesus, we will no longer have thoughts of hatred or contempt towards our neighbor instead these thoughts will turn into love and compassion, so thou shalt not murder will automatically be kept. The same goes for the Sabbath, which is what Hebrews 4 is really referring to, we enter spiritual rest when we keep the Sabbath commandment. Hebrews 4:6 warns us that those who disobeyed the Sabbath commandment Ezekiel 20:13, Ezekiel 20:21 did not enter into His rest so it's important to obey God the way He commands and sadly many turns this into something that is no longer what the scriptures state.

Thanks. Remembering Sabbath and setting aside work for godly things, speaking of God among others and speaking with God, being worshipful, is a part of loving God. It is not at all everything there is to loving God. But how loving to God are those who say, but no, I don't have to do that so I won't?

The truth from the Bible shows the seventh day of each week, the Sabbath, IS holy. It would mean that it doesn't depend on us, God gives it recognition already, we could depend on the Sabbath for seeking God's holiness. This is not to say we do it perfectly, I don't, I know, but I observe it more so as I grow. Not going out to work anymore at this time in my life, I don't have an employer to confront to say I should be permitted the seventh day for rest, but I have stopped going out, and I don't cook meals, between sunset after the sixth day until the time of sunset at the end of the seventh day. I use communication to speak of godly things to others, and I follow observance of sabbath worship services. Regardless that salvation does not depend on what we observe to do, and we are just responding with repentant faith coming to Christ to be restored to God with relationship we can have, our growth we should have does depend on that. And we are told Sabbath is for man. So it is for me.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Thanks. Remembering Sabbath and setting aside work for godly things, speaking of God among others and speaking with God, being worshipful, is a part of loving God. It is not at all everything there is to loving God. But how loving to God are those who say, but no, I don't have to do that so I won't?

The truth from the Bible shows the seventh day of each week, the Sabbath, IS holy. It would mean that it doesn't depend on us, God gives it recognition already, we could depend on the Sabbath for seeking God's holiness. This is not to say we do it perfectly, I don't, I know, but I observe it more so as I grow. Not going out to work anymore at this time in my life, I don't have an employer to confront to say I should be permitted the seventy day for rest, but I have stopped going out, and I don't cook meals, between sunset after the sixth day until the time of sunset at the end of the seventh day. I use communication to speak of godly things to others, and I follow observance of sabbath worship services. Regardless that salvation does not depend on what we observe to do, and we are just responding with repentant faith coming to Christ to be restored to God with relationship we can have, our growth we should have does depend on that. And we are told Sabbath is for man. So it is for me.

I agree we don’t keep the Sabbath to be saved, just like we don’t worship other gods, or steal to be saved. We should keep the commandments like you described, because Jesus gives us a new heart and we want to keep them through love and faith.

God bless!
 
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