American Tract Society & the American Sunday School Union Agree ~

[The Liturgist]

Do you think it really SAFE to follow TRADITION when God Himself CLEARLY says, "Remember the seventh day to keep it holy..."? He wrote that in STONE with His own FINGER.... It's the ONLY thing in the whole Bible that God wrote in STONE...and yet, 99% of Christians today say it doesn't matter which day you choose to keep holy...

In answer to your question, firstly, I am compelled to point out that Christ our God says nothing in John 3:16 about what day of the week we must worship on. Rather, our Lord simply said this:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That said, I feel we should keep every day Holy, and pray and worship every day, for Christ commanded us to pray without ceasing. I am frustrated with Christians who only go to church on Saturday or Sunday depending on their denomination. An English Salvation Army officer who I greatly admire likes to preach on Sunday about the three Ts, meaning “This Time Tomorrow,” stressing to his Salvation Army corps, who you might think of all Christians would be least inclined to view it as a Sunday only affair, the need to be Christian every day of the week. Of special theological importance are the fasting days of Wednesday and Friday, observed in the early church, and by John Wesley and the early Methodists, and by the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, for on these days our Lord was betrayed and crucified, respectively, and on Saturday, God rested in the tomb, before being resurrected on Sunday, and thus recreating the Universe based on the New Covenant. Thus Sunday is the most important day for Christians because the New Covenant is based on forgiveness of our sins through faith in the Resurrected God, thus enabling our own Resurrection unto Life Everlasting, and not the Law.

Furthermore, as St. Paul and our Lord Himself make clear, the Law has been fulfilled. People like to talk up the writing of the Decalogue by God’s own finger, but whose finger is that? Only one member of the Holy Trinity has a finger to write with and that is our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. And He said the Sabbath was made for the benefit of man, and not vice versa. And what God said in His incarnation is, by virtue of being His presence among us, of the most immediate importance to us, for it was the Incarnate Son and Word of God who gave us the New Covenant at the Last Supper.

St. Paul clearly explains our relationship with the Old Law in Galatians 4:

1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Paul's Concern for the Galatians

8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Hagar and Sarah

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

In answer to your question, firstly, I am compelled to point out that Christ our God says nothing in John 3:16 about what day of the week we must worship on. Rather, our Lord simply said this:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

People just quote the first part, but never continue for some reason. . .

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

I don’t think Jesus is teaching that all one has to do is believe there is a Jesus and one will be saved. Believe is a big word and many compound it to be much smaller. I think if one is to believe in Jesus the way it is being used in context, they would believe what Jesus teaches, which makes up His character.

Jesus came to do the will of His Father and taught to keep His Fathers commandments. John 6:38, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19, John 14:15 John 15:10

There is nothing that we can do to hide from God and the concept about Jesus bringing everything to light is not a new concept in the scriptures.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

In the New Covenant teaching it says those who do not keep the commandments there is no truth in them, so being obedient to what God commands is not something we should take lightly.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

That said, I feel we should keep every day Holy, and pray and worship every day, for Christ commanded us to pray without ceasing. I am frustrated with Christians who only go to church on Saturday or Sunday depending on their denomination.

Personally I don’t think our feelings should matter much when it comes to doing what God asks of us. I think I understand what you’re saying, but God never made everyday holy. If He wanted to He could have but choose not to. He only made one day holy, He only blessed and sanctified one day and only one day is His holy Sabbath day according to God’s Word.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

While I agree we should worship God everyday, but not everyday is the Sabbath or God’s holy day. If we kept the Sabbath daily the way God asks, nothing would get done. Which is why God gives us six days to do all thy work and labors and only asks for one day to set aside for holy use and that is the seventh day Sabbath.

Furthermore, as St. Paul and our Lord Himself make clear, the Law has been fulfilled. People like to talk up the writing of the Decalogue by God’s own finger, but whose finger is that? Only one member of the Holy Trinity has a finger to write with and that is our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. And He said the Sabbath was made for the benefit of man, and not vice versa. And what God said in His incarnation is, by virtue of being His presence among us, of the most immediate importance to us, for it was the Incarnate Son and Word of God who gave us the New Covenant at the Last Supper.

St. Paul clearly explains our relationship with the Old Law in Galatians 4:

1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all; 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father. 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world: 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Paul's Concern for the Galatians

8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? 10Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. 11I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Hagar and Sarah

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

There is no scripture that says we no longer have to obey the commandments of God. John reveals clearly the fruit of a saved person and they keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus until the very end of time. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15

Jesus did not come to destroy the law so everyone is free to sin. Jesus came to save us from our sins, not in them. Matthew 1:21 and Jesus fulfilled the law by keeping all of His Fathers commandments as an example for us to follow. John 15:10, 1 John 2:6

 

[Leaf473]

I think the safest thing, when there is an important Bible question, is to look and see what the early church did when they had an important question.

Like in Acts 15,
Therefore when Paul and Barnabas had no small discord and discussion with them, they appointed Paul and Barnabas, and some others of them, to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.

The apostles and the elders were gathered together to see about this matter.

 

[FredVB]

I feel we should keep every day Holy, and pray and worship every day, for Christ commanded us to pray without ceasing. I am frustrated with Christians who only go to church on Saturday or Sunday depending on their denomination.

Certainly Christian believers should live like the redeemed of the Lord, each day. That only happens with repentance in life with which there is life-changing faith. Yet don't you or any of us get a day off from work for rest, that we would get away from the distraction of work taking our attention from things of more value to us? This is what God meant for us, and the seventh day of each week is what God said IS holy, that it should be remembered, with not doing that distracting work. It was also for people to do at the same day, not for some to do this on other days. And Jesus said, it is meant from God to be for man.

 

[The Liturgist]

Certainly Christian believers should live like the redeemed of the Lord, each day. That only happens with repentance in life with which there is life-changing faith. Yet don't you or any of us get a day off from work for rest, that we would get away from the distraction of work taking our attention from things of more value to us? This is what God meant for us, and the seventh day of each week is what God said IS holy, that it should be remembered, with not doing that distracting work. It was also for people to do at the same day, not for some to do this on other days. And Jesus said, it is meant from God to be for man.

Well, strictly speaking the Sabbath is part of the Torah, which applied only to Jews. Gentiles were subject to the Noachide Law, and Christians are subject to the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, the Nicene Creed and the Canons of the Ecumenical Councils. And those canons say to worship on Sunday.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well, strictly speaking the Sabbath is part of the Torah, which applied only to Jews. Gentiles were subject to the Noachide Law, and Christians are subject to the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, the Nicene Creed and the Canons of the Ecumenical Councils. And those canons say to worship on Sunday.

Nothing in the scriptures say we are to worship on Sunday. This is a man-made teaching that leads people away from the commandments of God.

Acts 15 has nothing to do with the Gentiles not keeping the Sabbath. Many people falsely think only 4 things apply to Gentile Christians. One is about not eating blood in meat, yet they still do these things by eating Sushi and meat not cooked well-done, so obviously it's not what the majority of people believe but use this out of context as a reason to not keep the Sabbath, which Acts 15 says nothing of the sort. There is no scripture that says we don't have to keep the commandments of God, just like there are not two holy days, two sets of commandments, two salvations. If one is part of the New Covenant God writes His laws in the hearts of His people. There is one God and one people. Hebrews 8:10 and there is no such thing as Jew or Gentile if one is in Christ. Galatians 3:26-28 just God's people. God said His people keep the Sabbath, so we should all strive to be one of God's people. Ezekiel 20:20, Ezekiel 20:12, Isaiah 56:6 who keep the Sabbath, the faith in Jesus and God's commandments which of course includes the 4th commandment, God's holy day. Revelation 14:12

 

[The Liturgist]

Nothing in the scriptures say we are to worship on Sunday. This is a man-made teaching that leads people away from the commandments of God.

Even if that were true, and I dispute both points, because of Acts 20, 1 Corinthians 16, and other verses, it is not a danger to our salvation, because as the SOP for this forum says, adherence to the Law is not a requirement for our salvation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Even if that were true, and I dispute both points, because of Acts 20, 1 Corinthians 16, and other verses, it is not a danger to our salvation, because as the SOP for this forum says, adherence to the Law is not a requirement for our salvation.

I never once said keeping the Sabbath is how we will be saved. Breaking the Sabbath is no different than worshipping other gods or bowing down to images, they are all part of God's eternal commandments. We are not saved by law-keeping, we are saved by grace through faith. If one claims they have faith in Jesus. but are placing false gods above Him, or are stealing, one will have to question if they really have faith in the teachings of Jesus. Our inward thoughts are an extension of our actions. If we have faith in Jesus, we are going to believe what He asks of us. Jesus taught us to keep the commandments of God in many of His teachings Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19. Matthew 5:17-30, John 14:15 John 15:10 so if we have faith in Jesus, we should believe what He taught, which of course Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment as our example to follow. Luke 4:16 1 John 2:6

There is nothing in Acts 20 or 1 Cor 16 that says the Sabbath commandment has been changed and we are now to worship on the first day or anywhere in the scriptures. Breaking bread is something the disciples did daily Acts 2:46 and it doesn't say anything in the scripture that means the 4th commandment ended and to now worship on the first day or everyday, that is reading in the scriptures. Taking up a non-religious offering in 1 Cor 16 if anything keeping in line with keeping the Sabbath holy as there would be no secular offerings on the Sabbath.

 

[Leaf473]

Do you think it really SAFE to follow TRADITION when God Himself CLEARLY says, "Remember the seventh day to keep it holy..."?

Yes, I think it is safe.
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold the traditions which you were taught by us, whether by word or by letter.

Note that there may be traditions of the Apostles not contained in their letters/the Bible.

Peace be with you

 

[FredVB]

Well, strictly speaking the Sabbath is part of the Torah, which applied only to Jews. Gentiles were subject to the Noachide Law, and Christians are subject to the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, the Nicene Creed and the Canons of the Ecumenical Councils. And those canons say to worship on Sunday.

What Jesus said applies. Jews may say commandments are just for them, and primarily that is right, in the sense that all other people would perish. Because they are not doing what is of the will of God anyway. If they are not to perish, they would need to become proselytes, to turn Jewish. Then it was, as you mention, gentiles should at least be Noachide, to not perish. But Jesus was not talking about that. Jesus mentioned he had sheep of another fold, and he had grace to provide a miracle to a Syro-Phoenician woman. It was his prior knowledge of what would be revealed to the apostles later that the gospel of salvation would be made available to gentiles without circumcision and them becoming Jewish. The minimum was for them to observe what was determined at the Council in Jerusalem and sent out to the churches with gentile believers. And there was recognition, in the context of that, that all the believers with those who were gentile among them would gather at the Jewish synagogues on Sabbath, to learn from teaching of scriptures. And this is with Jesus having said, Sabbath is made for man. So all the commandments show what is of God's will, and there isn't an exception to them for being dismissed.

By the way, in the rules it is not right to accuse another of claiming salvation is involved with or determining salvation. None of us are talking about that. There is the will of God considered, and believers should care to not sin, so the will of God is relevant. Salvation is available from God's grace, while it is available to sinners, who should turn from sin.

And if you care to observe what was said for gentile believers in that council, which I also believe to do, you would stop having blood in anything. Because meat has blood in it and cooking meat is not removing blood but only cooking it dry, you would stop having meat. God's perfect will for us was shown with the beginning, things permitted are not what corresponds to God's perfect will for us. Proverbs 12:10

 

[The Liturgist]

And if you care to observe what was said for gentile believers in that council, which I also believe to do, you would stop having blood in anything. Because meat has blood in it and cooking meat is not removing blood but only cooking it dry, you would stop having meat.

That’s actually untrue. Meat can be koshered so as to remove the blood, but mainly this is to discourage, for example, black pudding and also eating something that is still alive, or slaughtering animals by strangulation.

 

[Bob S]

SB wrote:

"I never once said keeping the Sabbath is how we will be saved. Breaking the Sabbath is no different than worshipping other gods or bowing down to images, they are all part of God's eternal commandments. We are not saved by law-keeping, we are saved by grace through faith. If one claims they have faith in Jesus. but are placing false gods above Him, or are stealing, one will have to question if they really have faith in the teachings of Jesus. Our inward thoughts are an extension of our actions. If we have faith in Jesus, we are going to believe what He asks of us. Jesus taught us to keep the commandments of God in many of His teachings Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19. Matthew 5:17-30, John 14:15 John 15:10 so if we have faith in Jesus, we should believe what He taught, which of course Jesus kept the Sabbath commandment as our example to follow. Luke 4:16 1 John 2:6"

No, you have never said it, but with scripture you certainly have indicated we who do not believe we are obligated to observe any day will not inherit eternal life. Since you believe as you do that Jesus Kept the Sabbath, we should follow His example why is it you stop there? Did not Jesus also keep all the feast days and new moons? Who has given you the privilege to omit those examples?

The fact is you keep ignoring our questions. If you are here to try to convince others to keep the Sabbath like Jesus did then the least you should do is answer our questions. As it is no one has answered the question where in all of scripture does God command Gentiles to keep the days He only gave to Israel? No other nation on Earth has ever been given the ritual commands He gave to Israel.

If one feels the need to observe the Sabbath of the old covenant given only to Israel, I say feel free to do so, I don't believe I have to, but I would never try to hinder anyone for doing what they think is the way.

I also know that many Sabbath observers believe those who worship on another will soon persecute those who worship on Sabbath. That fear has permeated minds for 180 years. It appears that at some point all Christians will face persecution. We should all be united in stopping others from dictating what we should believe. Sabbath observers are not alone in this plight.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

SB wrote:


No, you have never said it, but with scripture you certainly have indicated we who do not believe we are obligated to observe any day will not inherit eternal life. Since you believe as you do that Jesus Kept the Sabbath, we should follow His example why is it you stop there? Did not Jesus also keep all the feast days and new moons? Who has given you the privilege to omit those examples?

The fact is you keep ignoring our questions. If you are here to try to convince others to keep the Sabbath like Jesus did then the least you should do is answer our questions. As it is no one has answered the question where in all of scripture does God command Gentiles to keep the days He only gave to Israel? No other nation on Earth has ever been given the ritual commands He gave to Israel.

If one feels the need to observe the Sabbath of the old covenant given only to Israel, I say feel free to do so, I don't believe I have to, but I would never try to hinder anyone for doing what they think is the way.

I also know that many Sabbath observers believe those who worship on another will soon persecute those who worship on Sabbath. That fear has permeated minds for 180 years. It appears that at some point all Christians will face persecution. We should all be united in stopping others from dictating what we should believe. Sabbath observers are not alone in this plight.

I have answered your question more than once, but I will answer it again, hopefully you can save this post and refer back to it, when you ask me the same question again.

First off let's look at the Sabbath commandment- you might want to note that God never refers to the Sabbath as the Sabbath of the Jews. God calls it the Sabbath of the Lord thy God and His holy day. Isaiah 58:13 we are made in His image to follow God.

Exodus 20:8-11

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

God made it pretty clear the Sabbath is meant for everyone and if God did not make this clear enough Jesus sure did when He said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and man here translates into human beings. I imagine you are a human being, just like the rest of us.

The word for man here in Mark 2:27 is the same word for man at creation Genesis 1:26 when there was no Jew or Gentile, just man and man was created right before the first Sabbath. Genesis 2:1-3

New Covenant where God writes His laws in His people's hearts and minds, shows there is only one people of God

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

One God one people. There is no Jew or Gentile if one is in Christ through our faith. There is one Sheperd and one flock and we are to follow the Sheperd.

Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I would not want to write myself out of God's covenant promise.

God's saints, which are the saved keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12. The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by the finger of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

If one does not want to keep the Sabbath as a day of worship on this earth, will they want to in God's New heaven and New Earth. Isaiah 66:22-23. God so loves the world and wants everyone happy and not everyone will be happy in heaven, Lucifer wasn't. His judgement is a judgement of love. God will never conform to sin (breaking God's law), Lucifer thought he could be sanctified and made holy apart from God's law, those who do not keep God's commandments is a liar according to scripture 1 John 2:3-5 and the devil is the father of lies. John 8:44. God's character is reflected in His law Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. I know which character I want to emulate.

 

[Bob S]

Hi SB, I would suggest you read my post once again. In it I did not write that Gentiles didn't accept the covenant give to only to Israel. Some obviously did. I wrote that God never COMMANDED Gentiles to observe the ritual laws of the old covenant. Gentiles were free to either choose or not. You may feel like you answered, but in reality, you never have. God commanded Israel to obey the covenant. They were His chosen. If, and indeed He has never commanded Gentiles or Christians to observe any day, why would you keep insisting that we have to in order to be saved???

Is 66 is a poor example of the New Earth as is the example of the New Earth found in Is 65. Please explain why Isaiah wrote in Is 65 that we will only live to be over 100 years. Was Isaiah referring to the New Earth Jesus has promised? Was that the same New Earth we are to inherit? Will we really be obligated to go out amongst all those dead bodies? I thought we wouldn't remember all the terrible things that happened on Earth. Yep, you claim is a very poor example of what God has planned for us.

The other question you have never ever given me an answer to is why you feel an obligation to use Jesus as an example of how we should live and do not follow His example of keeping feast and new moon days. Surely, if it is true, we should keep Sabbath like He did He would require us to observe all that He did. Keeping the feast days was a requirement for all Israelites just as was the weekly Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB, I would suggest you read my post once again. In it I did not write that Gentiles didn't accept the covenant give to only to Israel. Some obviously did. I wrote that God never COMMANDED Gentiles to observe the ritual laws of the old covenant. Gentiles were free to either choose or not. You may feel like you answered, but in reality, you never have. God commanded Israel to obey the covenant. They were His chosen. If, and indeed He has never commanded Gentiles or Christians to observe any day, why would you keep insisting that we have to in order to be saved???

Is 66 is a poor example of the New Earth as is the example of the New Earth found in Is 65. Please explain why Isaiah wrote in Is 65 that we will only live to be over 100 years. Was Isaiah referring to the New Earth Jesus has promised? Was that the same New Earth we are to inherit? Will we really be obligated to go out amongst all those dead bodies? I thought we wouldn't remember all the terrible things that happened on Earth. Yep, you claim is a very poor example of what God has planned for us.

The other question you have never ever given me an answer to is why you feel an obligation to use Jesus as an example of how we should live and do not follow His example of keeping feast and new moon days. Surely, if it is true, we should keep Sabbath like He did He would require us to observe all that He did. Keeping the feast days was a requirement for all Israelites just as was the weekly Sabbath.

Sorry you do not understand these scriptures, the scriptures I posted clearly answers your question, but believe what you want, we have free will.

I have answered why we do not keep sacrificing animals- the annual sabbath feasts days answered pretty clearly here Ordinances

 

[Bob S]

Hi SB, you keep referring to:
God's saints, which are the saved keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12. The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by the finger of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that John was referring to "His commandments" included the Sabbath of the 10 commandments?

In 1Jn 3 John explains what God's commandments are and tells us we are of the truth if we believe them. then he tells us what His commandments are. Verse 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB, you keep referring to:
God's saints, which are the saved keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12. The Sabbath is a commandment of God written by the finger of God.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
I would like to know how you came to the conclusion that John was referring to "His commandments" included the Sabbath of the 10 commandments?

If you go to the very next verse its clearly speaking of the Ten Commandments.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16. 1 John 2:4). The commandments are a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and James says you break one commandment quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12

In 1Jn 3 John explains what God's commandments are and tells us we are of the truth if we believe them. then he tells us what His commandments are. Verse 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Lucifer believes in the name of Jesus Christ, is he going to be saved? No, scripture makes this very clear. To believe in Jesus we must believe in His teachings. Did Jesus teach us to keep the commandments of God? Of course He did Jesus is not in conflict with God's law there are one of the same.

Jesus taught on the Ten Commandments and they came in a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 and are not multiple choice or suggestions.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’ found in Exodus 20 and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Jesus kept God’s Law (10 commandments) and said the Law and the prophets would not pass away (Matt 5:17-18)
Jesus taught others to follow the 10 commandments (Mark 10:17-21)
Jesus taught that Love is the fulfilling (doing) of God’s Law (10 commandments Matt 22:36-40)
If we break God’s Law by following man-made traditions we are not following God (Matt 15:3-9)
Jesus says if we commit sin we are a servant of sin and he has come to free us from sin (John 8:32-36)
Jesus taught if you love God you will keep God’s Law and abide in His Love (John 14:15; 15:10
If anyone is breaking any of God’s commandments and teaching others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven (Matt 5:19)
No one can obey God’s Law producing the fruit of obedience of ourselves and unless we abide in Jesus we can do nothing (John 15:4-10)

Have a great day!

 

[Bob S]

Hi SB, the fact is you forgot to mention that old satan does not love others as Jesus loves us. satan would not give his life for us. he would not heal the sick and give comfort to those who need rest. he would not shed his blood to cover for all our sins.

Jesus said He kept all of His Father's commands, not just ten.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1Cor13:1

Without the greatest commandment of all, LOVE there would be no charity. Love is the great theme of the New Testament. Love is expressed as the great message in the NT, not the Sabbath. Man is born with the desire to love. Man is born without the desire to keep the Sabbath. Man has survived without the Sabbath since the beginning of time. Man has survived because of love since the beginning of time. Even animals love. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jn3:16. Satan doesn't really believe in Jesus or he could have everlasting life too.

I see in your posts excuses and scripture that do not answer the scripture others and myself offer and questions posed. For instance, the scripture that clinches how believers are to live, 1Jn3:19-24
19 And hereby we know that we are of the TRUTH, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Your answer is lucifer believes. That is denial of scripture that tells mankind how to have life. It is the TRUTH. Paul wrote in 1Cor3:7 that the ten commandments WERE the ministry of death and that those commandments have been replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. He wrote that the ten commandments WERE transitory (temporary). The King James version tells us they WERE done away. Keeping the commandments of God means loving others as God loves us. If I love others, I will not do anything to harm them. Think about how many ways we can harm others. Those written on stone were just a minute few of the ways, love covers all ways.

Why were the ten commandments the ministry of death? It was because the Israelites failed in their attempt to keep them. What makes us believe people today are able to keep them any better than the Israelites were able? When Israelites didn't follow the standards set forth and reiterated in Isaiah 58, that is breaking the Sabbath. When they failed by speaking or thinking worldly thoughts or dojng their own pleasure scripture says they were sinning. If the Sabbath is a requirement today wouldn't the same standards be included? Jesus has never told Christians we have to KEEP the Sabbath, but He has told us to love others as He loves us. Think about it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Jesus said He kept all of His Father's commands, not just ten.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 1Cor13:1

Agreed, and Jesus also kept the Ten Commandments including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 all for the example we are to follow.
1 John 2: 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

Without the greatest commandment of all, LOVE there would be no charity. Love is the great theme of the New Testament. Love is expressed as the great message in the NT, not the Sabbath.

Well according to God we cannot love Him by being disobedient to His commandments. The Sabbath is one of God's commandments Exodus 20:8-11 written by God alone with His own finger. Exodus 31:18

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Man is born with the desire to love. Man is born without the desire to keep the Sabbath. Man has survived without the Sabbath since the beginning of time. Man has survived because of love since the beginning of time. Even animals love.

Thats why we have the law so we understand what sin is. Paul directed us right to the Ten Commandments to define sin.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

We cannot sanctify ourselves and we have no righteousness apart from God. When we start believing in our own self-righteousness that we do not need to obey God's law we start trusting in what we think is right instead of what God deemed right. All of God's commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 and we cannot save ourselves, we can only through trusting and having faith in Jesus. Saving faith believes God's Word and upholds His law. Romans 3:31

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Jn3:16. Satan doesn't really believe in Jesus or he could have everlasting life too.

Well lets finish the rest of this passage and context to what this means.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

There is nothing we can do to hide our sinful deeds from God. Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4

This teaching is similar to what we find in the OT.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man’s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

I see in your posts excuses and scripture that do not answer the scripture others and myself offer and questions posed. For instance, the scripture that clinches how believers are to live, 1Jn3:19-24
19 And hereby we know that we are of the TRUTH, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Your answer is lucifer believes. That is denial of scripture that tells mankind how to have life. It is the TRUTH.

There is no truth in someone who claims to be a follower of Christ but chooses not to keep His commandments.

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

God's law is TRUTH.

Psalms 119:142 Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness,
And Your law is truth.

Paul wrote in 1Cor3:7 that the ten commandments WERE the ministry of death and that those commandments have been replaced by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither he who plants is anything, nor he who waters, but God who gives the increase.

Says nothing of the sort.

The wages of sin is death Roman 6:23 Sin is the transgression of God's law. 1 John 3:4 Through the blood of Jesus when we repent of our sins (breaking God's law) which means we have been changed on the inside and want to turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience we are forgiven and can have eternal life. Those who choose to live in perpetual sin (breaking God's law) there remains no more sacrifice. Hebrews 10:26

There is no condemnation if one is in Christ and walking in His Spirit. Those walking in the flesh (sin) are an enmity against God and His law.

Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

He wrote that the ten commandments WERE transitory (temporary). The King James version tells us they WERE done away. Keeping the commandments of God means loving others as God loves us. If I love others, I will not do anything to harm them. Think about how many ways we can harm others. Those written on stone were just a minute few of the ways, love covers all ways.

There is no scripture that says the commandments of God were temporary. I noticed you don't have a scripture quote to back your claim.

The opposite is true. We are told the saints are the ones who keeps God's commandments and faith in Jesus until the very end of time. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14

The devil is the one who does not want people to keep God's commandments Revelation 12:17 so we need to decide which side we are on. We are either with God and are subject to God's law Romans 8:7 or we are an enmity against God.

Paul puts it this way:

Romans 5:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Why were the ten commandments the ministry of death? It was because the Israelites failed in their attempt to keep them. What makes us believe people today are able to keep them any better than the Israelites were able? When Israelites didn't follow the standards set forth and reiterated in Isaiah 58, that is breaking the Sabbath. When they failed by speaking or thinking worldly thoughts or dojng their own pleasure scripture says they were sinning. If the Sabbath is a requirement today wouldn't the same standards be included? Jesus has never told Christians we have to KEEP the Sabbath, but He has told us to love others as He loves us. Think about it.

Jesus told us to keep the commandments of God which includes the Sabbath. Jesus kept the Sabbath His whole life and all of His Father's commandments as our example. John 15:10, 1 John 2:6. What we cannot do on our own is possible through Jesus Christ. Not all the Israelites sinned but many of them did. Just like Jesus predicted at His coming, many will be believers in Jesus, but Jesus will say depart from Me, I don't know you who practices lawlessness. Matthew 7:21-23. God's judgment is a judgement of love, not everyone loves His commandments but a government without laws is chaos and turns evil. God's commandments that He personally wrote with His own finger and kept in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of His Temple where He dwells under His mercy seat is revealed in heaven, Revelation 11:19. Heaven is ruled by God's law. Lucifer didn't want to keep God's commandments and thought he could be righteous apart from the law and was thrown out of heaven. Trying to think we can be righteous apart from God's law is making the same mistake.

His commandments are commandments of love. God said right in the Ten Commandments showing mercy to thousands who love Me and keep My commandments Exodus 20:6 which Jesus said almost verbatim If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 and we do not have to keep His commandments alone for those who want to He gives us His Spirit so we can obey God. John 14:15-18 Acts 5:32

 

[Leaf473]

...Jesus Kept the Sabbath, we should follow His example why is it you stop there? Did not Jesus also keep all the feast days and new moons?

Jesus kept the Sabbath, so we should. Jesus kept the rest of the feasts, so we should.

Logically, it's both or neither imo.

John 7, the feast of booths
But when his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly, but as it were in secret.

Jesus at Hanukkah in John 10
It was the Feast of the Dedication at Jerusalem. 23 It was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple, in Solomon’s porch.

Peace be with you all