America is Mystery Babylon/Babylon the Great of the End Times
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This day upon which God's judgment will fall will look and feel like any normal day. There will be no special, visible warning.
And, destruction will be total.
BABYLON'S SINS HAVE PILED UP FROM EARTH TO HEAVEN. THE TIME HAS ARRIVED TO CALL THEM UP FOR REMEMBRANCE.
(18:5)--"For her crimes and transgressions--are piled up as high as heaven and God has remembered her wickedness and her crimes--and calls them up for settlement..."
This is a statement of staggering proportions. How high is it from earth to heaven? When these sins are stacked, they literally reach from earth to heaven, according to God's accounting.
God DOUBLES The Punishment Which This Nation Is To Receive.
(18:6)--"Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double."
Our destruction will be by both massive nuclear blasts and earthquakes. Dr. Einstein clearly proved that a small nuclear blast on the right place on an earthquake fault would produce earthquakes of such magnitude as to displace entire continents. The North American continent is covered with many such faults, from sea to shining sea. Thus, America would be doubly-destroyed, just as God foretold. Our destruction will be by both massive nuclear blasts and earthquakes.
Further, I understood God's reasoning in doubling America's punishment. America has led the way in originating and thoroughly disseminating spiritual lies and the love of the world, to our children and the children of the world. These children then grow to adulthood to pass these un-Christian values to their children.
How many children's eternal souls have been lost through:
BABYLON BOASTS PROUDLY IN HER HEART OF HER RICHES, BELIEVING SHE WILL CONTINUE FOREVER IN HER PROSPERITY.
(18:7)--"How much she has glorified herself, and lived (luxuriously), so much torment and sorrow give her; for she says in her heart, `I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'"
Many of my friends believe that this good life will never end. Certainly, the very rich believe it with all their heart. Americans still lead the world in the wealth of her businessmen.
The number of billionaires per country.
USA 40+
Japan 24
West Germany 13
United Kingdom 7
Hong Kong 6
Canada 6
Saudi Arabia 5 5
American businessmen still hold the predominate wealth in the world. What is the attitude on the part of Americans toward this wealth? They believe they need nothing else and that this good time will never end.
This passage also implies that, at the time of God's destruction, this nation will be at her HEIGHT of power and monetary influence. Is America at her economic zenith now, or are we in serious decline?
"...The average American has NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD. By almost any measure of health and wealth...we are demonstrably better off now than in the...50's and 60's.
America is now at her zenith of economic power, even though we are currently struggling with recession and loss of jobs.
GOD'S JUDGMENTS FALL IN ONE DAY UTTERLY DESTROYING BABYLON.
(18:8)--"Therefore, shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for (mighty) is the Lord God who judges her."
At this point, carefully consider the statement of God in Jeremiah 50:25, "The LORD hath opened his armory, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts." This passage could read, "The Lord has opened His armory, and has brought forth [the nations who unknowingly] are the weapons of His indignation and wrath..." Amazing!! God has used men and nations to accomplish His will in most instances when He delivers His wrath.
Historically, no nation has ever been utterly destroyed in one day. The single-day destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, who were destroyed by a small primitive nuclear weapon, was actually a destruction which occurred within a SINGLE HOUR. As we look ahead to verse 10, God further narrows Babylon's destruction to a single hour. The nature of nuclear destruction is complete, utter devastation, within seconds and minutes. This destruction occurs from blast, radiation, and (fire)--hotter than the sun's surface.
This is the first, and only, time in world history that an ENTIRE nation could literally be destroyed in a single hour--with massive nuclear weapons.
EARTH'S LEADERS BEMOAN BABYLON'S DESTRUCTION.
(18:9)--"And the rulers and leaders of the earth, who joined her in her immorality [idolatry] and luxuriated with her, will weep and beat their breasts and lament over her when they see the smoke of her conflagration."
This nation provided great leadership and she was the economic engine of the world. World leaders are weeping because this loss threatens their own luxurious wealth. Does America really buy from all other nations of the world to such a degree?
"...The Third World now relies upon the United States to buy 65% of its manufactured exports, compared with only 45% in 1979." 10
The USA imports more than both Japan and West Germany combined. Remember Jesus' words, "...no one will buy their cargo anymore...")
Country Exports Imports
USA 322 Billion 460 Billion
Japan 265 Billion 187 Billion
W. Germany 323 Billion 236 Billion
Remember, the key to this prophecy is on imports from other nations. This Economic Babylon undoubtedly has a very large Import imbalance, as she imports so much merchandise from the rest of the world.
Finally, look at the word `conflagration'--the inevitable white plumes formed by a nuclear explosion.
EARTH'S BUSINESSMEN BEMOAN BABYLON'S FATE. IMMENSITY AND COMPLEXITY OF BABYLON'S ECONOMY IS DESCRIBED.
(18:10-17a) -- "They (the rulers of the earth in verse 9) will stand a long way off, in terror of her torment, and they will cry, `Woe and alas! The great city! The mighty city, Babylon! In one single hour, how your doom (judgment) has overtaken you. And earth's businessmen weep and grieve over her, because no one buys their (cargo) any more."
God then describes the extent of the economy of this nation, and it is huge. We do not have the time to read this text in detail, but we encourage you to read it, in verses 12-14.
God's judgment pronouncement is severe:
I. In verses 10 and 15, God says that the rulers and the businessmen are standing a "long way off" in their intense lamenting over the loss of this great nation. Look at a world globe. The North American continent is UNIQUELY SURROUNDED on all sides by immense bodies of water. The great majority of our commercial trade is done with two major parts of the world--Asia to the West, across the Pacific Ocean; and Europe, to the East, across the Atlantic.
II. Verse 11: this great nation was unique. She alone bought such a huge amount of the cargo from the other nations of the world. No nation could replace her.
Only America is EXTREMELY DEPENDENT upon consumer purchasing for the health of her economy. Two-thirds of our total economic activity is generated by consumer spending.
Other statistics which show clearly that America is unique in the world's economy.
Compare the wealth of nations in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP). Assign the US an index score of 100...Listed below are the scores of the other nations."17
India-- PPP 17 Red China-- PPP 19 S. Korea--PPP 31
Taiwan-- PPP 36 Singapore-- PPP 46 USSR-- PPP 47
Italy-- PPP 54 Hong Kong--PPP 58 Britain-- PPP 66
E. Germany-- PPP 70 Japan-- PPP 77 France-- PPP 79
W. Germany--PPP 84
3. America's loss to the world's economy would be devastating. The world would lose THE MOST PRODUCTIVE agricultural exporting continent in the WORLD.
Turning back to Revelation 6:4: the second rider out of heaven was on a flaming red horse; this rider carried a huge sword, bringing great war upon the earth, so that men slaughtered one another. If we understood that this great slaughter was the utter destruction of Canada and the USA in Chapter 18, then we could easily see how Revelation 6:5-6 and 6:8 could be fulfilled literally and quickly. Revelation 6:5-6 describe famine and subsistence living for the world's people. This scenario would certainly happen quickly, once the world's most productive agricultural continent, and the world's most important economic engine, was removed. Instantly following the nuclear annihilation of North America, the stock markets and economies of Europe and Asia would collapse, plunging the global economy into the deepest economic depression ever.
The literal fulfillment to Revelation 6:8 would quickly follow--famine, plague, disease.
The economy of this great nation is described in 18:12-13, and 16, as vast, multifaceted economy. The key emphasis is on the volume of merchandise which this economy IMPORTS.
(18:17b-19)--"...And all ship captains and pilots, navigators, and all who live by seafaring...stood a long way off, and exclaimed as they watched the smoke of her burning, `What city could be compared to the great city!' And, they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and grieved, exclaiming, `Woe and alas, for the great city, where all who had ships on the sea grew rich through her extravagance from her great wealth! In one single hour, she has been destroyed, and has become a desert.'"
Babylon was unique in that she imported/exported most of her trade via the sea. As we have already stated, only America is so uniquely situated geographically that she has to carry her imports so completely via the ocean.
In 18:9, 15, and 19: the leaders, businessmen, and ship-owners able to see the smoke of this nation's burning. Not even huge pillars of white nuclear smoke, rising over America, could be seen with the naked eye 2,000-4,000 miles away. This viewing of the smoke from such great distances can only occur today, with TV transmissions from orbiting satellites.
* The very end of verse 19: This destruction has made this nation `a desert'. One of the effects of nuclear explosions, especially at the point of impact, is the formation of glass and sand.
BABYLON WILL BE DESTROYED BY GREAT VIOLENCE AS THOUGH A MIGHTY MILLSTONE WERE CAST INTO THE SEA.
(18:21)--"And a MIGHTY angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, `Thus, with such violence, shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be heard no more at all.'"
This destruction of this nation will evidently be of UNPARALLELED VIOLENCE, producing a destruction, the likes of which have NEVER been seen BEFORE in world history.
EVERYTHING COMPRISING A CIVILIZATION IS GONE FOREVER.
(18:22-23a)--"And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee..."
BABYLON'S GREAT BUSINESS LEADERS WILL BE DESTROYED FOR THE WAY IN WHICH THEY MISLEAD OTHERS.
(18:23b)--"...for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."
The United States of America has led the world into this Satanic New World Order, both in terms of national political and economic leadership, but mostly in the leadership of values. People all over the world have yearned to be like America, as they have seen our wealth, success, and power. Such a position draws people to emulate, to allow themselves to be deceived.
Such is the case today.
And, destruction will be total.
BABYLON'S SINS HAVE PILED UP FROM EARTH TO HEAVEN. THE TIME HAS ARRIVED TO CALL THEM UP FOR REMEMBRANCE.
(18:5)--"For her crimes and transgressions--are piled up as high as heaven and God has remembered her wickedness and her crimes--and calls them up for settlement..."
This is a statement of staggering proportions. How high is it from earth to heaven? When these sins are stacked, they literally reach from earth to heaven, according to God's accounting.
God DOUBLES The Punishment Which This Nation Is To Receive.
(18:6)--"Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled, fill to her double."
Our destruction will be by both massive nuclear blasts and earthquakes. Dr. Einstein clearly proved that a small nuclear blast on the right place on an earthquake fault would produce earthquakes of such magnitude as to displace entire continents. The North American continent is covered with many such faults, from sea to shining sea. Thus, America would be doubly-destroyed, just as God foretold. Our destruction will be by both massive nuclear blasts and earthquakes.
Further, I understood God's reasoning in doubling America's punishment. America has led the way in originating and thoroughly disseminating spiritual lies and the love of the world, to our children and the children of the world. These children then grow to adulthood to pass these un-Christian values to their children.
How many children's eternal souls have been lost through:
- Humanistic, Godless public school teaching.
- Alcoholism
- Drugs
- T.V.
- VCR's and video movies.
- Ouija board games; Dungeons/Dragons
- Rock music, with all its horrific themes.
- Country music, with its themes glorifying alcohol and those `cheating' songs.
BABYLON BOASTS PROUDLY IN HER HEART OF HER RICHES, BELIEVING SHE WILL CONTINUE FOREVER IN HER PROSPERITY.
(18:7)--"How much she has glorified herself, and lived (luxuriously), so much torment and sorrow give her; for she says in her heart, `I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.'"
Many of my friends believe that this good life will never end. Certainly, the very rich believe it with all their heart. Americans still lead the world in the wealth of her businessmen.
The number of billionaires per country.
USA 40+
Japan 24
West Germany 13
United Kingdom 7
Hong Kong 6
Canada 6
Saudi Arabia 5 5
American businessmen still hold the predominate wealth in the world. What is the attitude on the part of Americans toward this wealth? They believe they need nothing else and that this good time will never end.
This passage also implies that, at the time of God's destruction, this nation will be at her HEIGHT of power and monetary influence. Is America at her economic zenith now, or are we in serious decline?
"...The average American has NEVER HAD IT SO GOOD. By almost any measure of health and wealth...we are demonstrably better off now than in the...50's and 60's.
- Our incomes are up...
- We have more opportunities
- We can choose among more things to buy..
- The average American commands TWICE AS MUCH buying power today as in 1962, despite inflation and higher taxes..."
- Employment benefits are twice as large a share of total compensation as they were 35 years ago...
- Counting government subsidies, 1 in 10 Americans today is poor, versus 1 in 5 in 1960..."
- We can expect to live 5 years longer
- Infant mortality...fell by 50% during the 70-80's. * Fewer adults die of heart disease or in accidents * Medical costs have soared, but many more Americans can get care when they need it...because of Medicare, Medicaid...as well as a widening umbrella of private insurance plans...85% of Americans have some form of coverage, compared with 70% in 1962. Poor Americans have made the biggest gains."
- It takes the average family 23 weeks of income to buy that average car now, versus 26 weeks in 1960..."
- Homes are less affordable than in the 1960's...but more Americans own their own homes..
- The average apartment today is newer, more spacious, and more stuffed with amenities than in 1960."
America is now at her zenith of economic power, even though we are currently struggling with recession and loss of jobs.
GOD'S JUDGMENTS FALL IN ONE DAY UTTERLY DESTROYING BABYLON.
(18:8)--"Therefore, shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for (mighty) is the Lord God who judges her."
At this point, carefully consider the statement of God in Jeremiah 50:25, "The LORD hath opened his armory, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts." This passage could read, "The Lord has opened His armory, and has brought forth [the nations who unknowingly] are the weapons of His indignation and wrath..." Amazing!! God has used men and nations to accomplish His will in most instances when He delivers His wrath.
Historically, no nation has ever been utterly destroyed in one day. The single-day destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, who were destroyed by a small primitive nuclear weapon, was actually a destruction which occurred within a SINGLE HOUR. As we look ahead to verse 10, God further narrows Babylon's destruction to a single hour. The nature of nuclear destruction is complete, utter devastation, within seconds and minutes. This destruction occurs from blast, radiation, and (fire)--hotter than the sun's surface.
This is the first, and only, time in world history that an ENTIRE nation could literally be destroyed in a single hour--with massive nuclear weapons.
EARTH'S LEADERS BEMOAN BABYLON'S DESTRUCTION.
(18:9)--"And the rulers and leaders of the earth, who joined her in her immorality [idolatry] and luxuriated with her, will weep and beat their breasts and lament over her when they see the smoke of her conflagration."
This nation provided great leadership and she was the economic engine of the world. World leaders are weeping because this loss threatens their own luxurious wealth. Does America really buy from all other nations of the world to such a degree?
"...The Third World now relies upon the United States to buy 65% of its manufactured exports, compared with only 45% in 1979." 10
The USA imports more than both Japan and West Germany combined. Remember Jesus' words, "...no one will buy their cargo anymore...")
Country Exports Imports
USA 322 Billion 460 Billion
Japan 265 Billion 187 Billion
W. Germany 323 Billion 236 Billion
Remember, the key to this prophecy is on imports from other nations. This Economic Babylon undoubtedly has a very large Import imbalance, as she imports so much merchandise from the rest of the world.
Finally, look at the word `conflagration'--the inevitable white plumes formed by a nuclear explosion.
EARTH'S BUSINESSMEN BEMOAN BABYLON'S FATE. IMMENSITY AND COMPLEXITY OF BABYLON'S ECONOMY IS DESCRIBED.
(18:10-17a) -- "They (the rulers of the earth in verse 9) will stand a long way off, in terror of her torment, and they will cry, `Woe and alas! The great city! The mighty city, Babylon! In one single hour, how your doom (judgment) has overtaken you. And earth's businessmen weep and grieve over her, because no one buys their (cargo) any more."
God then describes the extent of the economy of this nation, and it is huge. We do not have the time to read this text in detail, but we encourage you to read it, in verses 12-14.
God's judgment pronouncement is severe:
"The ripe fruits and delicacies for which your soul longed have gone from you, and ALL your luxuries and dainties, ... are lost to you, never again to be recovered or experienced." `Because, in one [single] hour, all the vast wealth has been wiped out.'"
Now consider some pertinent points of this passage:
I. In verses 10 and 15, God says that the rulers and the businessmen are standing a "long way off" in their intense lamenting over the loss of this great nation. Look at a world globe. The North American continent is UNIQUELY SURROUNDED on all sides by immense bodies of water. The great majority of our commercial trade is done with two major parts of the world--Asia to the West, across the Pacific Ocean; and Europe, to the East, across the Atlantic.
II. Verse 11: this great nation was unique. She alone bought such a huge amount of the cargo from the other nations of the world. No nation could replace her.
Only America is EXTREMELY DEPENDENT upon consumer purchasing for the health of her economy. Two-thirds of our total economic activity is generated by consumer spending.
Other statistics which show clearly that America is unique in the world's economy.
Compare the wealth of nations in terms of purchasing power parity (PPP). Assign the US an index score of 100...Listed below are the scores of the other nations."17
India-- PPP 17 Red China-- PPP 19 S. Korea--PPP 31
Taiwan-- PPP 36 Singapore-- PPP 46 USSR-- PPP 47
Italy-- PPP 54 Hong Kong--PPP 58 Britain-- PPP 66
E. Germany-- PPP 70 Japan-- PPP 77 France-- PPP 79
W. Germany--PPP 84
3. America's loss to the world's economy would be devastating. The world would lose THE MOST PRODUCTIVE agricultural exporting continent in the WORLD.
Turning back to Revelation 6:4: the second rider out of heaven was on a flaming red horse; this rider carried a huge sword, bringing great war upon the earth, so that men slaughtered one another. If we understood that this great slaughter was the utter destruction of Canada and the USA in Chapter 18, then we could easily see how Revelation 6:5-6 and 6:8 could be fulfilled literally and quickly. Revelation 6:5-6 describe famine and subsistence living for the world's people. This scenario would certainly happen quickly, once the world's most productive agricultural continent, and the world's most important economic engine, was removed. Instantly following the nuclear annihilation of North America, the stock markets and economies of Europe and Asia would collapse, plunging the global economy into the deepest economic depression ever.
The literal fulfillment to Revelation 6:8 would quickly follow--famine, plague, disease.
The economy of this great nation is described in 18:12-13, and 16, as vast, multifaceted economy. The key emphasis is on the volume of merchandise which this economy IMPORTS.
- Iron is specifically mentioned
- This economy also bought and sold luxurious products: perfumes, incense, ointments.
- An immense agricultural economy is also described:
- Fine flour and wheat
- Cattle, sheep, and horses.
- This economy also imports and exports `chariots' or `conveyances'. Our modern vehicles of `conveyances'--cars, trucks, planes, buses, tractors. Imports of this type of product into and out of the American economy is enormous.
(18:17b-19)--"...And all ship captains and pilots, navigators, and all who live by seafaring...stood a long way off, and exclaimed as they watched the smoke of her burning, `What city could be compared to the great city!' And, they threw dust on their heads, as they wept and grieved, exclaiming, `Woe and alas, for the great city, where all who had ships on the sea grew rich through her extravagance from her great wealth! In one single hour, she has been destroyed, and has become a desert.'"
Babylon was unique in that she imported/exported most of her trade via the sea. As we have already stated, only America is so uniquely situated geographically that she has to carry her imports so completely via the ocean.
In 18:9, 15, and 19: the leaders, businessmen, and ship-owners able to see the smoke of this nation's burning. Not even huge pillars of white nuclear smoke, rising over America, could be seen with the naked eye 2,000-4,000 miles away. This viewing of the smoke from such great distances can only occur today, with TV transmissions from orbiting satellites.
* The very end of verse 19: This destruction has made this nation `a desert'. One of the effects of nuclear explosions, especially at the point of impact, is the formation of glass and sand.
BABYLON WILL BE DESTROYED BY GREAT VIOLENCE AS THOUGH A MIGHTY MILLSTONE WERE CAST INTO THE SEA.
(18:21)--"And a MIGHTY angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, `Thus, with such violence, shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be heard no more at all.'"
This destruction of this nation will evidently be of UNPARALLELED VIOLENCE, producing a destruction, the likes of which have NEVER been seen BEFORE in world history.
EVERYTHING COMPRISING A CIVILIZATION IS GONE FOREVER.
(18:22-23a)--"And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee..."
BABYLON'S GREAT BUSINESS LEADERS WILL BE DESTROYED FOR THE WAY IN WHICH THEY MISLEAD OTHERS.
(18:23b)--"...for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived."
The United States of America has led the world into this Satanic New World Order, both in terms of national political and economic leadership, but mostly in the leadership of values. People all over the world have yearned to be like America, as they have seen our wealth, success, and power. Such a position draws people to emulate, to allow themselves to be deceived.
Such is the case today.
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Zadok7000
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Babylon can only be 2 places:
1. the "land of the Chaldeans" = modern day Iraq
2. Jerusalem, the "great harlot" prophetically
Literally, Babylon means "confusion" - so in that respect (and that respect alone) it can apply to any person living in any nation on earth. Don't be deceived by those who would assign Prophetic Babylon to any place other than Jerusalem. Stay in the WORD, you'll be fine.
1. the "land of the Chaldeans" = modern day Iraq
2. Jerusalem, the "great harlot" prophetically
Literally, Babylon means "confusion" - so in that respect (and that respect alone) it can apply to any person living in any nation on earth. Don't be deceived by those who would assign Prophetic Babylon to any place other than Jerusalem. Stay in the WORD, you'll be fine.
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You assume that we are in the end times now that is a mistake christians have made for 2000 years.Warrior4ChristAL said:
You assume that it is americans that own the companies that make america the superpower that it is.
You assume that america will always be the superpower we have been, that is a greviouse error, as 1 nuke in washington, 1 weak presedancy, or simply the adoption of isolationysm (to wich we are strongly leaning towards now) will leave us alone in the cold and without voice in the present world, all of wich can happen in as little as 10 years
World war changes many things, and we now stand on the precipice of that void.
Granted our presance in the world does not fit with end time events, but we are to conform our lives and understanding to match scripture, not to conform scripture to our world. So it would be more accurate to understand that our presance in this world will change. this can happen in a number of ways, weather it be world war, natural catastrophy, or political treachery, the world we now know must change.
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There are a lot of "physical" attributes of the end-time Babylon that you cannot just ignore.
While I would admit that spiritually Babylon is Israel, you cannot just pretend that there will be a great destruction in Babylon that will cause the NATIONS of the world to bemoan her destruction.
Now, just by saying that one statement, where is the center of World Trade? World Finances, World Politics?
Four Options.
Iraq
Israel
Rome
America.
If you line every prophecy up only ONE NATION/ONE CITY (N.Y., who has a city called Babylon, N.Y. anyway which is on Long Island) there can only be one conclusion.
I guess you just seriously do not take YHWH literal about anything that He had written down.
If you take it literally, you will see the blue print to America immediately. If you only see it as ancient Babylon physically instead of the SYSTEM of Babylon (Nimrod), and YES there was a Babylon before IRAQ's Babylon, then you cannot see the total comparison at what Nimrod was attempting to do at BABEL.
This is a systematic mirror image to NIMROD's Babylon, yet the technology has change. Now, every eye will see Babylon's destruction when it happens.
The nations of the world will weep and mourn her and the mother who bore her (Europe) will be it shock.
You cannot even compare the other prophetic Scriptures to Iraq or even Israel. Because there is going to be a LITERAL destruction. And YES, I take God and His Words just as literal as we know some to be figurative.
However, the destruction will usher in the worst chaos the world has ever known because the giant who had traded with every other nation, will be utterly cast down. DOUBLE for their sins.
I cannot see Iraq or Israel this way, not even Rome as some have indicated 30 years ago when understanding prophecy.
And . . . if it wasn't important to mention all the DEEP SEA PORTS and other details, then why bother if it is only "symbolic" rather than literal?
Your argument is truly grasping. God wouldn't have gone to all that trouble to have scribes write down such detail if it wasn't important to know and recognize.
While I would admit that spiritually Babylon is Israel, you cannot just pretend that there will be a great destruction in Babylon that will cause the NATIONS of the world to bemoan her destruction.
Now, just by saying that one statement, where is the center of World Trade? World Finances, World Politics?
Four Options.
Iraq
Israel
Rome
America.
If you line every prophecy up only ONE NATION/ONE CITY (N.Y., who has a city called Babylon, N.Y. anyway which is on Long Island) there can only be one conclusion.
I guess you just seriously do not take YHWH literal about anything that He had written down.
If you take it literally, you will see the blue print to America immediately. If you only see it as ancient Babylon physically instead of the SYSTEM of Babylon (Nimrod), and YES there was a Babylon before IRAQ's Babylon, then you cannot see the total comparison at what Nimrod was attempting to do at BABEL.
This is a systematic mirror image to NIMROD's Babylon, yet the technology has change. Now, every eye will see Babylon's destruction when it happens.
The nations of the world will weep and mourn her and the mother who bore her (Europe) will be it shock.
You cannot even compare the other prophetic Scriptures to Iraq or even Israel. Because there is going to be a LITERAL destruction. And YES, I take God and His Words just as literal as we know some to be figurative.
However, the destruction will usher in the worst chaos the world has ever known because the giant who had traded with every other nation, will be utterly cast down. DOUBLE for their sins.
I cannot see Iraq or Israel this way, not even Rome as some have indicated 30 years ago when understanding prophecy.
And . . . if it wasn't important to mention all the DEEP SEA PORTS and other details, then why bother if it is only "symbolic" rather than literal?
Your argument is truly grasping. God wouldn't have gone to all that trouble to have scribes write down such detail if it wasn't important to know and recognize.
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I Agree this insinuation to NYC as babylon is compelling however we simply can not transpose the literal place of chaldea, or Jerusalam to NYC!!! if you can find scripture that clearly does that ill Gladly yeild but only scripture can support scripture, supposition and alligorical interpritation is not safe enough in my opinion.Warrior4ChristAL said:
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YES . . . that's the point. It MUST change. However, only a tremendous disaster will change it THAT drastically for the U.S.inhisdebt said:
We are the youngest nation on the planet and the leader of all global economics and world trade. Even the United Nations are located in N.Y.
What could be more drastic to usher in the anti-Christ than the greatest power on the planet is destroyed.
And . . . I don't ASSUME anything.
It's called BIBLE!! It's called HOLY SPIRIT.
I don't need to "assume" anything. I just have to get out of the flesh and get into the Spirit where God dwells.
I find it amazing that those who are in step with Holy Spirit are currently preaching and teaching about the 2nd Coming, the Tribulation, signs of the end, etc. You can see it on every major Christian TV or radio station.
Everytime I turn on the radio I'm hearing preachers from all over the Nation preaching the same thing.
The false prophets on TBN, however, are preaching "peace and prosperity" as if we need to be richer, have more houses and money, money, money rather than have a pure and contrite heart before God.
I know that is a concept that most Christians aren't into anymore. But I rely on Holy Spirit to interpret the Word of God and I study under teacher and instructors that also believe in the Holy Spirit, rather than man's ways.
Do you not know spiritually what season we are in? Or are you just wandering around in the dark from day to day? Does God talk to you?
"You have not because you ask not".
If you are not asking and seeking God but rather are just going to church and hanging out with Christian folk and "playing church", then perhaps you don't have a clue as to what is going on in the spirit realm and why God is stirring up His Spirit to make proclaimations in these last days.
I believe in an in-your-face relationship with Almighty God. I don't believe in merely existing until Jesus comes back but rather being obedient to Him in His daily direction for my life.
I'm sorry you feel so "out-of-touch" with the spiritual reality going on at this time, not just in this nation but around the world.
I am one of MANY saying the same things and moving in the same direction.
"For the spirit shall bear witness with the spirit".
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Babylon the people or Babylon the SYSTEM or KINGDOM?
Do you call Iraqi's Babylonians?
If not, why not?
Because ancient Babylon fell so they are not the offsprings of Babylon today but rather the offspring of the people of Iraq.
Same as the Chaldeans.
Chaldeans are the indigenous people of Iraq, religiously Catholic and speak a form of Aramaic. Many also speak Arabic.
Chaldeans are among the many ethnic groups that have been immigrating to the Metropolitan Detroit area since the 1920s. Chaldeans are a Catholic ethnic group originating primarily from Iraq. The Chaldeans have come to America for the same reasons as other immigrant groups - in search of better economic, religious and political freedom and opportunities. In the beginning of the new millennium, there are approximately 120,000 Chaldeans in the Metropolitan Detroit area and an estimated 35,000 more Chaldeans throughout the United States.
HISTORY
The name Chaldean stems from one of the ancient groups, which inhabited the land presently known as Iraq. In ancient times this area was called Mesopotamia, the land between two rivers and is also known as the cradle of civilization. The history of Mesopotamia is measured in millennia rather than centuries. The first cities developed in the south around 3500 B.C. For the next 3000 years, kingdoms rose and fell, empires expanded and contracted, outsiders conquered and repelled. During that time, three dominant civilizations held center stage at various times: the Sumerians (3500-2600 B.C.), Babylonians (1792-539 B.C.) and the Assyrians (1115-612 B.C.).
The city of Babylon inherited the culture of Sumer and under Hammurabi (1792-1750 B.C.), became the seat of strong central government and a great cultural and religious center. Hammurabi, a skilled statesman and warrior, consolidated rival kingdoms and made Babylon the center of power. Hammurabi claimed that the gods told him to write a legal code to make justice appear in the land so that the strong may not oppress the weak. As a result, he ruled by the code of law that demanded an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth a principal that appeared in the biblical book of Exodus.
However, during the following centuries, Babylon was often invaded-by the Kassites and the Assyrians, for example.
In 612 B.C., Babylon was dominated by Chaldeans. The Chaldeans along with the Medes, defeated the Assyrian empire. The Chaldean king Nebuchadnezzar II (605-562 B.C.) rebuilt Babylon into the greatest city in the world. Nebuchadnezzars greatest most noted contribution to the glory of Babylon was a series of gardens known as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, which is considered one of the seven wonders of the ancient world.
Now, to totally understand about the DAUGHTER OF, you must also line it up with Scripture. Babylon, Iraq and the Chaldeans NEVER dwelled in the land of MANY WATERS. The "Gulf" is not a deep sea port that trades with every nation of the world. To believe that Ancient Iraq is Modern Day Babylon cannot and will not line up with all the descriptions of what Babylon is identified with.
Much of our modern number system is based on the number 10. The Mesopotamians used this decimal system and a more complex one built around the base of 60, which is reflected today in our measurement of seconds, minutes and hours, as well as the number of degrees in a circle. Mesopotamians were also the first to use place value to indicate a numbers value and the first to invent a symbol to indicate nothing or zero.
Some Mesopotamian Achievements
The Roman Empire adapted MUCH of the Chaldean philosphy and the Chaldeans eventually the Roman Catholic Faith.
RELIGION
Chaldeans belong to the Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church. They are under the authority of the Vatican and the Pope, but worship within a different organizational structure. They were converted to Christianity by St. Thomas the Apostle and his disciples Mar Addai and Mar Mari. Later, in the fifth century, they espoused the Nestorians doctrines until they were reunited with Rome in the 16th century. Pope Julius III declared that all converted Nestorians from the region of ancient Babylon would henceforth be called Chaldeans, referring to past origins, and entitled their religious leader as the Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans who now resides in Baghdad, Iraq. The Patriarch, in union with Rome, is the head of the Chaldean Catholic Church in all its extensions throughout the world.
In the United States there are currently five Chaldean parishes in the Detroit area, and a sixth being built in Shelby Township, four parishes in California, two Chaldean parishes in Chicago, and one in Phoenix, Arizona. These Chaldean-American parishes have been organized into a diocese entrusted to the care of the most Reverent Mar Ibrahim Ibrahim, who has been appointed by the Pope to oversee this diocese since 1982. The bishop has his administrative center adjacent to the Our Lady of Chaldeans Cathedral in Southfield, Michigan. The Chaldeans are strongly attached to their church, not only for their spiritual guidance, but also as the nucleus of their community.
I challenge those that claim that the "physical children" of the Chaldeans are very different than the "spiritual" children of the Chaldeans.
The Chaldeans today are VERY CATHOLIC, not Muslim/Islamic.
A lot of the Chaldean ideas and traditions were incorporated into Rome, then the rest of the European nations and eventually the United States.
England is the MOTHER and the United States is the Daughter.
If you are able to see THIS POINT, then you will see that there are physical Chaldeans and spiritual Chaldeans as well as philosphosical Chaldeans.
Pasting on one's idiology is a "father-son" relationship as well. Like a master to an apprentice.
Elijah did so with Elisha, passing on his mantle of anointing.
So the question is, did the Chaldeans pass on their wisdom and knowledge to what we know as Europe? If so, then they would be considered CHILDREN of the Chaldeans as well.
Well, I hope I helped.
Do you call Iraqi's Babylonians?
If not, why not?
Because ancient Babylon fell so they are not the offsprings of Babylon today but rather the offspring of the people of Iraq.
Same as the Chaldeans.
Chaldeans are the indigenous people of Iraq, religiously Catholic and speak a form of Aramaic. Many also speak Arabic.
Chaldeans are among the many ethnic groups that have been immigrating to the Metropolitan Detroit area since the 1920s. Chaldeans are a Catholic ethnic group originating primarily from Iraq. The Chaldeans have come to America for the same reasons as other immigrant groups - in search of better economic, religious and political freedom and opportunities. In the beginning of the new millennium, there are approximately 120,000 Chaldeans in the Metropolitan Detroit area and an estimated 35,000 more Chaldeans throughout the United States.
HISTORY
The name Chaldean stems from one of the ancient groups, which inhabited the land presently known as Iraq. In ancient times this area was called Mesopotamia, the land between two rivers and is also known as the cradle of civilization. The history of Mesopotamia is measured in millennia rather than centuries. The first cities developed in the south around 3500 B.C. For the next 3000 years, kingdoms rose and fell, empires expanded and contracted, outsiders conquered and repelled. During that time, three dominant civilizations held center stage at various times: the Sumerians (3500-2600 B.C.), Babylonians (1792-539 B.C.) and the Assyrians (1115-612 B.C.).
The city of Babylon inherited the culture of Sumer and under Hammurabi (1792-1750 B.C.), became the seat of strong central government and a great cultural and religious center. Hammurabi, a skilled statesman and warrior, consolidated rival kingdoms and made Babylon the center of power. Hammurabi claimed that the gods told him to write a legal code to make justice appear in the land so that the strong may not oppress the weak. As a result, he ruled by the code of law that demanded an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth a principal that appeared in the biblical book of Exodus.
However, during the following centuries, Babylon was often invaded-by the Kassites and the Assyrians, for example.
In 612 B.C., Babylon was dominated by Chaldeans. The Chaldeans along with the Medes, defeated the Assyrian empire. The Chaldean king Nebuchadnezzar II (605-562 B.C.) rebuilt Babylon into the greatest city in the world. Nebuchadnezzars greatest most noted contribution to the glory of Babylon was a series of gardens known as the Hanging Gardens of Babylon, which is considered one of the seven wonders of the ancient world.
Now, to totally understand about the DAUGHTER OF, you must also line it up with Scripture. Babylon, Iraq and the Chaldeans NEVER dwelled in the land of MANY WATERS. The "Gulf" is not a deep sea port that trades with every nation of the world. To believe that Ancient Iraq is Modern Day Babylon cannot and will not line up with all the descriptions of what Babylon is identified with.
Much of our modern number system is based on the number 10. The Mesopotamians used this decimal system and a more complex one built around the base of 60, which is reflected today in our measurement of seconds, minutes and hours, as well as the number of degrees in a circle. Mesopotamians were also the first to use place value to indicate a numbers value and the first to invent a symbol to indicate nothing or zero.
Some Mesopotamian Achievements
- Mesopotamians were the first to invent the wheel<LI class=textBld>First to discover how to make glass <LI class=textBld>Mesopotamians were the first to observe and describe complex patterns in the motions of the heavens (Astronomy) <LI class=textBld>Mesopotamians were the first to use writing
- By 2000 B.C. the definition of our modern day, month year as well as lunar and solar calendars with the year of 360 days, 12 months of 30 days each, with an extra month added in every six years or so to keep synchronized with astronomical observations.
The Roman Empire adapted MUCH of the Chaldean philosphy and the Chaldeans eventually the Roman Catholic Faith.
RELIGION
Chaldeans belong to the Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church. They are under the authority of the Vatican and the Pope, but worship within a different organizational structure. They were converted to Christianity by St. Thomas the Apostle and his disciples Mar Addai and Mar Mari. Later, in the fifth century, they espoused the Nestorians doctrines until they were reunited with Rome in the 16th century. Pope Julius III declared that all converted Nestorians from the region of ancient Babylon would henceforth be called Chaldeans, referring to past origins, and entitled their religious leader as the Patriarch of Babylon of the Chaldeans who now resides in Baghdad, Iraq. The Patriarch, in union with Rome, is the head of the Chaldean Catholic Church in all its extensions throughout the world.
In the United States there are currently five Chaldean parishes in the Detroit area, and a sixth being built in Shelby Township, four parishes in California, two Chaldean parishes in Chicago, and one in Phoenix, Arizona. These Chaldean-American parishes have been organized into a diocese entrusted to the care of the most Reverent Mar Ibrahim Ibrahim, who has been appointed by the Pope to oversee this diocese since 1982. The bishop has his administrative center adjacent to the Our Lady of Chaldeans Cathedral in Southfield, Michigan. The Chaldeans are strongly attached to their church, not only for their spiritual guidance, but also as the nucleus of their community.
I challenge those that claim that the "physical children" of the Chaldeans are very different than the "spiritual" children of the Chaldeans.
The Chaldeans today are VERY CATHOLIC, not Muslim/Islamic.
A lot of the Chaldean ideas and traditions were incorporated into Rome, then the rest of the European nations and eventually the United States.
England is the MOTHER and the United States is the Daughter.
If you are able to see THIS POINT, then you will see that there are physical Chaldeans and spiritual Chaldeans as well as philosphosical Chaldeans.
Pasting on one's idiology is a "father-son" relationship as well. Like a master to an apprentice.
Elijah did so with Elisha, passing on his mantle of anointing.
So the question is, did the Chaldeans pass on their wisdom and knowledge to what we know as Europe? If so, then they would be considered CHILDREN of the Chaldeans as well.
Well, I hope I helped.
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If so, then line up every prophetic verse WITH IRAQ and see if it matches EXACTLY to the descriptions.Zadok7000 said:Babylon can only be 2 places:
1. the "land of the Chaldeans" = modern day Iraq
2. Jerusalem, the "great harlot" prophetically
Literally, Babylon means "confusion" - so in that respect (and that respect alone) it can apply to any person living in any nation on earth. Don't be deceived by those who would assign Prophetic Babylon to any place other than Jerusalem. Stay in the WORD, you'll be fine.
YOU CAN'T!!
If so, then line up EVERY DESCRIPTION, including the Book of Revelation description to BABYLON and see if it matches up.
It DOESN'T.
Iraq & Jerusalem do not dwell with MANY WATERS that allow world trade with every nation on the planet. Nor do they have WORLD POWER within the United Nations.
These nations are "small" on the scale that the Modern Day Babylon is described.
It MUST mirror Nimrod's Babylon or at LEAST Ancient Babylon with world commerce.
One last point on this post to you.
There is ONLY ONE NATION at this time that REPRESENTS all nations on the Planet with a "melting pot" of culture with E Plurabus Unum as it's moto.
MANY, yet ONE.
If you can find any other nation. Jerusalem or Iraq that has a person living in their country that represents every nation on the planet within it's borders THEN YOU WOULD BE RIGHT.
It's all about BABEL and defying God. Building a TOWER into the heavens to represent man's arrogance and Satan's dominion on the earth. "I shall be like the Most High".
It is an ancient idea being brought forth into the modern world.
Iraq & Israel do not represent a LITERAL Babylon that WILL BE DESTROYED according to prophecy and MY PEOPLE represents Israel/Jews that need to "come out of her".
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rhymnrzn2zion
Brother Watchman
Throughout time we have seen the many daughters of Babylon manifest as the congregations which claim to be the people of God, but break his commandments.
In these last days we see the many daughters of Babylon manifest in the Churches called by Christ, who are supposed to command their followers to have no participation in violence and war (for the true Christians are of the circumcision of the heart, and are the Israel of God, and do not participate in the fulfilment of the heathen antichrists and harlot-hypocrites).
Nobody mentions the children of Mystery Babylon for some reason. And that's a big part of how we are supposed to identify her, and by following the blood trail, which leads to the city where the blood of all the slain of the earth is found. Because even Paul said "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you".
And her name is on her forehead, and as a city everybody knows it when they look in the mirror. They call it the oil capitol of the world, and the golden city.
In these last days we see the many daughters of Babylon manifest in the Churches called by Christ, who are supposed to command their followers to have no participation in violence and war (for the true Christians are of the circumcision of the heart, and are the Israel of God, and do not participate in the fulfilment of the heathen antichrists and harlot-hypocrites).
Nobody mentions the children of Mystery Babylon for some reason. And that's a big part of how we are supposed to identify her, and by following the blood trail, which leads to the city where the blood of all the slain of the earth is found. Because even Paul said "For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you".
And her name is on her forehead, and as a city everybody knows it when they look in the mirror. They call it the oil capitol of the world, and the golden city.
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Still complete guess work and more " inspired " thinking.
The reader of the day would have no stinking idea of America, yachts, vcr's, automobiles, electric toothbrushes, or whatever else your thinking.
Try what the " Nations " mean using Scripture and Scripture alone.
You mean polluting our airwaves dont you. But it's easy to see where your getting all of this stuff. Newspaper Theology. Now that's frightening.
The reader of the day would have no stinking idea of America, yachts, vcr's, automobiles, electric toothbrushes, or whatever else your thinking.
Try what the " Nations " mean using Scripture and Scripture alone.
You mean polluting our airwaves dont you.
But it's easy to see where your getting all of this stuff. Newspaper Theology. Now that's frightening.
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Babylon Rev. 17 = Jerusalem
Much debate on which city is Babylon of Rev. 17; New York, Babylon (Iraq), Rome and so on....
Question, if you were claiming to be the return of the Messiah where would you set up camp?
Re 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
The harlot
The bible only has spoken of one such city as a harlot, Jerusalem.
Chapters which relate Jerusalem to being a harlot.
Isaiah chapter 1
Jeremiah chapter 3
Ezekiel chapter 16
Hosea chapter 4
Rev. 17:16 - We see lovers will strip her, this is seen happening to Jerusalem in EZ 16:37.
Rev. 18: 4 - In addition, God called for MY PEOPLE to come out of this city and not be partakers of her sins. This reference is to those you will keep the commandments his people Israel.
Rev. 18:6 This woman is rewarded double for her iniquity. This double punishment is seen to Jerusalem in Isaiah 4:2 and Jer. 16:18, 17:18.
Rev. 18:7 - She denies that she is a harlot and a widow, Jerusalem is described as a widow in Lam 1:1.
Rev. 18:22, 23 We see that the LIGHT OF A CANDLE and the VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM and SOUNS OF MILLSTONES shall be heard no more out from this city. This event is seen occurring to Jerusalem in Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11.
Babylon is the harlot of the REAL New Jerusalem seen coming from Heaven two chapters later in chapter 21. History always seems to repeat......
In Christ, Mark.
Much debate on which city is Babylon of Rev. 17; New York, Babylon (Iraq), Rome and so on....
Question, if you were claiming to be the return of the Messiah where would you set up camp?
Re 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
The harlot
The bible only has spoken of one such city as a harlot, Jerusalem.
Chapters which relate Jerusalem to being a harlot.
Isaiah chapter 1
Jeremiah chapter 3
Ezekiel chapter 16
Hosea chapter 4
Rev. 17:16 - We see lovers will strip her, this is seen happening to Jerusalem in EZ 16:37.
Rev. 18: 4 - In addition, God called for MY PEOPLE to come out of this city and not be partakers of her sins. This reference is to those you will keep the commandments his people Israel.
Rev. 18:6 This woman is rewarded double for her iniquity. This double punishment is seen to Jerusalem in Isaiah 4:2 and Jer. 16:18, 17:18.
Rev. 18:7 - She denies that she is a harlot and a widow, Jerusalem is described as a widow in Lam 1:1.
Rev. 18:22, 23 We see that the LIGHT OF A CANDLE and the VOICE OF THE BRIDEGROOM and SOUNS OF MILLSTONES shall be heard no more out from this city. This event is seen occurring to Jerusalem in Jer. 7:34, 16:9, 25:10, 33:11.
Babylon is the harlot of the REAL New Jerusalem seen coming from Heaven two chapters later in chapter 21. History always seems to repeat......
In Christ, Mark.
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Who do you reckon are the "them" in Ezekiel 39? If it is happening in Israel, then it must have something to do with the Temple/Priesthood. Thoughts?
Matt 23:31 "Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 "Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' [guilt.] 33 "Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of gehenna? 34 "Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
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Zadok7000
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LittleLambofJesus said:
Ezek. 39:11-13
And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the [noses] of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call [it] The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury [them]; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
Pretty self-explanatory, isn't it? The "they" here is Gog (Russia). Ezek. 38:2, "chief" = Rosh. They attack Israel, yes, but not that country of Judah in the middle east. What would it have to do with the priesthood?
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RussiaZadok7000 said:Ezek. 39:11-13
And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the [noses] of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call [it] The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury [them]; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.
Pretty self-explanatory, isn't it? The "they" here is Gog (Russia).
Hmm. Never heard of that before. Sounds like you got that from somewhere other than the Scriptures, perhaps from the fictional Left Behind books maybe.
http://www.prophecyupdate.com/russia,_gog_and_magog,_armageddon___.htmThe Priesthood is what ran the Temple and Sanctuary and if revelation is still future, the one in Revelation 11:1,2 will have to be built and a whole new Priesthoold trained for it.
Jesus and God both condemned the Priesthood/Rulers in Jerusalem. Why the heck do you think God had the Temple/Sanctuary destroyed?
Ezekiel 7:1 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 "And you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD to the land of Israel: 'An end! The end has come upon the four corners of the land. 3 Now the end [has come] upon you, And I will send My anger against you; I will judge you according to your ways, And I will repay you for all your abominations.
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Zadok7000
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DoubleLittleLambofJesus said:Russia
I abhor the Left Behind theology. But the Gog = Russia thing they got right. I gave you the Scripture - Ezek. 38:2. See also Malachi chapter 1 and Obadiah. Example, this is the same as Hamongog:
v. 18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be [any] remaining of the house of Esau; for the LORD hath spoken [it].
You mean the Millennial Temple of Rev. 11 also described in Ezek. 40-48?? Coincidence that both were "measured"?? Nobody will have to be "trained" for service in it. Those which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Are you still struggling with the houses of Judah vs. Israel?
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You cannot take merely one or two texts of Scripture to voice your argument.
Either you take God literally in the prophetic descriptions or you don't.
If you don't then you assume that God has wasted paper in giving such descriptions which mean nothing to the overall picture of Babylon's identification.
World Trade is ONE of the descriptions that cannot be ignored.
America is the biggest importer and exporter of goods, including franchise business.
Now, do we see an Iraqi resturant in every nation? How about Israeli / Jewish Cuisine?
Yet, America has so surrounded the globe with McDonalds and Mickey Mouse. The U.S. has factories all over the globe as well. You cannot say this about Israel or Iraq.
Babylon is also known for its trading of many commodities. We see a massive list of commodities for which Mystery Babylon is famous for its trade and for being the World Leader in this trading.
Among those traits are:
Wood or Lumber -- Revelation 18:12
Grains -- Revelation 18:13
Livestock -- Revelation 18:13
Transportation -- Revelation 18:13
To believe in the "prophetic" is to accept that these "visions" were laid out in detail before the prophets. In their own language and understanding they listed such things. While perhaps Jeremiah, Isaiah & John couldn't know or understand a CAR, they did understand that a CHARIOT is a transportation vehicle, and thus, they used a description that THEY were familiar with.
My main point is, I am not "grasping" at anything. It's called REVELATION from the HOLY SPIRIT.
I am so sorry for those who find that they are supernatural in themselves and can interpret the Bible with their intellect rather than with the Holy Spirit, who inspired the prophets to WRITE THE VISION.
I will say this. I can thank God that I no longer walk in blindness to the Scriptures and that my feet are planted on the ROCK of MY SALVATION.
There are those who know and believe, but only because God, the Father wills us to "come into the knowledge of the truth".
I do not stand alone and I will continue to proclaim the truth, regardless of who it rocks.
I don't get my theology from a newspaper, that is the biggest insult to my walk with Christ.
I do, however, understand and can SEE the signs of the times and be able to prophetically line world events with Biblical prophecy. So sorry for those who live in such darkness that they cannot see what is right before their eyes.
For those who merely look at the posts and not the original post with Scriptures that BACK UP WHAT I AND THOUSANDS OF US BELIEVE TO BE THE IDENTIFICATION OF BABYLON, then you are the one's grasping at straws in your arguments.
You cannot ignore the truth of the Scripture. If Israel cannot fit ALL the descriptions, then Babylon cannot be Israel.
If Iraq cannot fit ALL the descriptions, then Iraq cannot be the end-time Babylon either.
While I will admit that we can have a "babylonian" ideology in our individual lives, Babylon's description is both CITY & NATION in the prophetic passages.
And yes, I believe God said what He meant and meant what He said. Yes, I DARE to believe God's Word as both figurative a literal.
Why would the prophets have a vision of something that doesn't exist? They had a VISION, not just a "thought". They SAW something that gave them the descriptions.
If someone believes that the Bible are merely stories and allegories rather than absolutes and facts given from God to man, then they must only be "figuratively" saved not literally saved.
Jesus didn't die on a figurative cross and shed figurative blood.
While some can be enslaved by the mind, will and emotions, even by demonic powers, the children of Israel WERE SLAVES OF A REAL EGYPT, not a figurative one.
My challenge to those who really desire to know the truth, God's Truth, should not take ANYONE'S WORD FOR IT, but rather SEEK GOD ALONE for clarification and revelation.
While Zadok makes good argument, his argument doesn't line up with sound Biblical doctrine based on 4 prophets who offered tremendous detailed descriptions of the End-Time Babylon.
Again, if Iraq or Israel were truly in the running for it, they would be able to fall into EVERY CATAGORY of the prophesies and they just don't.
Either you take God literally in the prophetic descriptions or you don't.
If you don't then you assume that God has wasted paper in giving such descriptions which mean nothing to the overall picture of Babylon's identification.
World Trade is ONE of the descriptions that cannot be ignored.
America is the biggest importer and exporter of goods, including franchise business.
Now, do we see an Iraqi resturant in every nation? How about Israeli / Jewish Cuisine?
Yet, America has so surrounded the globe with McDonalds and Mickey Mouse. The U.S. has factories all over the globe as well. You cannot say this about Israel or Iraq.
Babylon is also known for its trading of many commodities. We see a massive list of commodities for which Mystery Babylon is famous for its trade and for being the World Leader in this trading.
Among those traits are:
Wood or Lumber -- Revelation 18:12
Grains -- Revelation 18:13
Livestock -- Revelation 18:13
Transportation -- Revelation 18:13
To believe in the "prophetic" is to accept that these "visions" were laid out in detail before the prophets. In their own language and understanding they listed such things. While perhaps Jeremiah, Isaiah & John couldn't know or understand a CAR, they did understand that a CHARIOT is a transportation vehicle, and thus, they used a description that THEY were familiar with.
My main point is, I am not "grasping" at anything. It's called REVELATION from the HOLY SPIRIT.
I am so sorry for those who find that they are supernatural in themselves and can interpret the Bible with their intellect rather than with the Holy Spirit, who inspired the prophets to WRITE THE VISION.
I will say this. I can thank God that I no longer walk in blindness to the Scriptures and that my feet are planted on the ROCK of MY SALVATION.
There are those who know and believe, but only because God, the Father wills us to "come into the knowledge of the truth".
I do not stand alone and I will continue to proclaim the truth, regardless of who it rocks.
I don't get my theology from a newspaper, that is the biggest insult to my walk with Christ.
I do, however, understand and can SEE the signs of the times and be able to prophetically line world events with Biblical prophecy. So sorry for those who live in such darkness that they cannot see what is right before their eyes.
For those who merely look at the posts and not the original post with Scriptures that BACK UP WHAT I AND THOUSANDS OF US BELIEVE TO BE THE IDENTIFICATION OF BABYLON, then you are the one's grasping at straws in your arguments.
You cannot ignore the truth of the Scripture. If Israel cannot fit ALL the descriptions, then Babylon cannot be Israel.
If Iraq cannot fit ALL the descriptions, then Iraq cannot be the end-time Babylon either.
While I will admit that we can have a "babylonian" ideology in our individual lives, Babylon's description is both CITY & NATION in the prophetic passages.
And yes, I believe God said what He meant and meant what He said. Yes, I DARE to believe God's Word as both figurative a literal.
Why would the prophets have a vision of something that doesn't exist? They had a VISION, not just a "thought". They SAW something that gave them the descriptions.
If someone believes that the Bible are merely stories and allegories rather than absolutes and facts given from God to man, then they must only be "figuratively" saved not literally saved.
Jesus didn't die on a figurative cross and shed figurative blood.
While some can be enslaved by the mind, will and emotions, even by demonic powers, the children of Israel WERE SLAVES OF A REAL EGYPT, not a figurative one.
My challenge to those who really desire to know the truth, God's Truth, should not take ANYONE'S WORD FOR IT, but rather SEEK GOD ALONE for clarification and revelation.
While Zadok makes good argument, his argument doesn't line up with sound Biblical doctrine based on 4 prophets who offered tremendous detailed descriptions of the End-Time Babylon.
Again, if Iraq or Israel were truly in the running for it, they would be able to fall into EVERY CATAGORY of the prophesies and they just don't.
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