Am I The Only One

[April_Rose]

I always say, let God be the judge.

He is mercy and love.

Yeah, and He always has the dog biscuits handy right?

 

[hedrick]

Understandable. The only thing I don't like so far is when people tell me Christians shouldn't believe what I believe and that I shouldn't believe it. It's like since when is any of that your business? All that this thread was created for is the fact that I'm curious if others believe like me. Not asking for opinions from the peanut gallery on whether or not I should believe it because that just gets irritating and annoying.

I just noticed that you’re Methodist. I think this is fairly common for them. First, Wesley is the most prominent classical advocate for inclusivism, and his theology is still quite influential for Methodists. Second, it’s a mainline / liberal denomination.

 

[April_Rose]

Agreed. In the end, you have faith, you have salvation, and God will correct any theological errors you, or I, or anyone has, in heaven.

Yeah,.. I mean I really don't think that anything else should matter.

 

[Lost4words]

Yeah, and He always has the dog biscuits handy right?

Sometimes a juicy bone!

 

[April_Rose]

I just noticed that you’re Methodist. I think this is fairly common for them. First, Wesley is the most prominent classical advocate for inclusivism, and his theology is still quite influential for Methodists. Second, it’s a mainline / liberal denomination.

Well, the Methodist part may be true but I ain't no liberal lol I'm a Trump supporter. (Let's not turn this into a political argument though.)

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Your problem is that virtually nobody understood the Messianic prophecies until after the event. This is proved by the continual reaction of the disciples whenever Jesus alluded to his coming death.
Even after his death, they continued to live in defeat instead of faith until the risen Jesus arrived to ram it home, ie. Thomas's "I will not believe....".
So absolutely not, the OT believers were not looking for a Messiah who would die for them. They were looking for a warrior king to drive the Romans out and restore the kingdom.

BTW, even if your verses were relevant, they give no help for the people who lived and died before the time they were spoken, which was quite late on.

The OT Messianic prophecies were largely understood in hindsight, not foresight.

Ignorance of Scripture, its promises and prophecies are no excuse. The facts are it was predicted in several of the major and minor prophets as well as the psalms and the Pentateuch.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Francis Drake]

Ignorance of Scripture, its promises and prophecies are no excuse. The facts are it was predicted in several of the major and minor prophets as well as the psalms and the Pentateuch.

hope this helps !!!

It doesn't help one iota. You are living in cuckoo land if you believe the OT people were looking for a sacrificial messiah. Try and find anyone on the 4 gospels who believed that.

Salvation in the OT period was exactly the same as the NT, putting one's trust on the Lord.
It says Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness!
It does not say that Abraham believed that Christ would be crucified.

 

[April_Rose]

It doesn't help one iota. You are living in cuckoo land if you believe the OT people were looking for a sacrificial messiah. Try and find anyone on the 4 gospels who believed that.

I agree with you but you could have worded that a lot nicer.

 

[Francis Drake]

I agree with you but you could have worded that a lot nicer.

Ooops.
I'm not very good with soft words especially when having to repeat myself several times.

 

[April_Rose]

I was going to say that I didn't know what you were talking about but see you edited it so it might have been a mistake.

 

[Francis Drake]

I was going to say that I didn't know what you were talking about but see you edited it so it might have been a mistake.

It was a mistake, I thought you were someone else.

 

[April_Rose]

It was a mistake, I thought you were someone else.

It's alright that's what I thought. Anyways, just something to keep in mind that there are many different ways to state your opinion without being mean about it. Just a bit of friendly advice is all. Even Jesus spoke of the golden rule.

 

[Francis Drake]

It's alright that's what I thought. Anyways, just something to keep in mind that there are many different ways to state your opinion without being mean about it. Just a bit of friendly advice is all. Even Jesus spoke of the golden rule.

Have you read some of Jesus's retorts recently?
They are anything but Mr nice guy!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

It doesn't help one iota. You are living in cuckoo land if you believe the OT people were looking for a sacrificial messiah. Try and find anyone on the 4 gospels who believed that.

Salvation in the OT period was exactly the same as the NT, putting one's trust on the Lord.
It says Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness!
It does not say that Abraham believed that Christ would be crucified.

You believe what you have been told not what scripture teaches through your own studies, you are just parroting the masses.

On the Jewish feast day of Shavuot (Weeks or Pentecost), when Peter preached the first gospel sermon, he boldly asserted that God had raised Jesus the Jewish Messiah from the dead (Acts 2:24). He then explained that God had performed this miraculous deed in fulfillment of David’s prophecy in Psalm 16. In fact, Peter quoted the words of David in detail as contained in Psalm 16:8–11. Some years later, Paul did the same thing when he spoke to the Jewish community in Antioch. Like Peter, Paul declared that God had raised Messiah Jesus from the dead in fulfillment of Psalm 16:10 (Acts 13:33–35).

The resurrection of the Messiah is strongly implied in another Davidic psalm. Again, this is Psalm 22. In verses 19–21, the suffering Savior prays for deliverance “from the lion’s mouth” (a metaphor for Satan). This desperate prayer is then followed immediately in verses 22–24 by a hymn of praise in which the Messiah thanks God for hearing His prayer and delivering Him. The resurrection of the Messiah is clearly implied between the ending of the prayer in verse 21 and the beginning of the praise song in verse 22. got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[JacksBratt]

of course, but this is the problem about your views. This is where I am getting at. If you are going to illustrate that being good and doing good, has no matter at all and all the basis of you going to heaven is through an allegiance to a deity, then you are logically showing that morals are meaningless.

God is not shallow nor insecure that he excludes any form of goodness that a person has done if that person doesn't give him any form of attention. This is a definition of a Dictator.

OK.. yes.. morals are meaningless..when salvation is concerned.


Having great morals.. Is not going to forgive you from your sin. Even those with impeccable morals... are sinners and need to bend the knee to Christ and humble their hearts to admit that they need His work on the cross to save them.

As Christians, however, people are supposed to be able to watch us and, with no other information... see that we let Christ shine through us.

But.. we are humans and we still sin and many of the sins are that of moral transgressions.

Children of God.. do not always have perfect morals.

 

[JacksBratt]

Yeah,.. I mean I really don't think that anything else should matter.

Question is... If you believe in God, believe in a creator, believe that you are a sinner, are worried about hell..... Why wait to find out?

Really.. it's not that big of a deal... if you're concerned about hell... do something about it.. It takes less than a minute to give yourself to Christ.

Are there really people that are living life.. believing in God and hell and sin and damnation.. that are that stubborn to be saying.. "Nah... He'll accept me. I'll wait till I'm dead"?

 

[Francis Drake]

You believe what you have been told not what scripture teaches through your own studies, you are just parroting the masses.

Hahaha, me believe what I've been told? If you knew me at all, you'd realise that's the last description applicable to me.
It is in fact the masses who always parrot what you are claiming, and I'm the odd one out!

On the Jewish feast day of Shavuot (Weeks or Pentecost), when Peter preached the first gospel sermon, he boldly asserted that God had raised Jesus the Jewish Messiah from the dead (Acts 2:24). He then explained that God had performed this miraculous deed in fulfillment of David’s prophecy in Psalm 16. In fact, Peter quoted the words of David in detail as contained in Psalm 16:8–11.

Peter is speaking AFTER Pentecost, and this has got nothing whatsoever to do with what I said.
The disciples' collective rejection of his impending death is well illustrated during Jesus's 3 year ministry among them.
Peter's new understanding is AFTER the event, and looking back at the prophetic scriptures, exactly as I said before.

Some years later, Paul did the same thing when he spoke to the Jewish community in Antioch. Like Peter, Paul declared that God had raised Messiah Jesus from the dead in fulfillment of Psalm 16:10 (Acts 13:33–35).

Are you serious, using Paul as an example? Paul was a brilliant theologian, yet those who believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus were likely to be hauled off to be stoned by Paul's authority, such was his unbelief.
It was long after the resurrection that Paul's Damascus Road experience made him repent of unbelief and look back to the prophecies.

The resurrection of the Messiah is strongly implied in another Davidic psalm. Again, this is Psalm 22. In verses 19–21, the suffering Savior prays for deliverance “from the lion’s mouth” (a metaphor for Satan). This desperate prayer is then followed immediately in verses 22–24 by a hymn of praise in which the Messiah thanks God for hearing His prayer and delivering Him. The resurrection of the Messiah is clearly implied between the ending of the prayer in verse 21 and the beginning of the praise song in verse 22. got?

The only way verses like these can be understood is in retrospect, and there is absolutely no way the average OT saints understood the above as saying their Messiah would be sacrificed! The fact that they didn't understand it is clearly evidenced by the gospels and the book of Acts.

hope this helps !!!

Again, your misguided theology helps not one iota!

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Hahaha, me believe what I've been told? If you knew me at all, you'd realise that's the last description applicable to me.
It is in fact the masses who always parrot what you are claiming, and I'm the odd one out!

Peter is speaking AFTER Pentecost, and this has got nothing whatsoever to do with what I said.
The disciples' collective rejection of his impending death is well illustrated during Jesus's 3 year ministry among them.
Peter's new understanding is AFTER the event, and looking back at the prophetic scriptures, exactly as I said before.

Are you serious, using Paul as an example? Paul was a brilliant theologian, yet those who believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus were likely to be hauled off to be stoned by Paul's authority, such was his unbelief.
It was long after the resurrection that Paul's Damascus Road experience made him repent of unbelief and look back to the prophecies.

The only way verses like these can be understood is in retrospect, and there is absolutely no way the average OT saints understood the above as saying their Messiah would be sacrificed! The fact that they didn't understand it is clearly evidenced by the gospels and the book of Acts.

Again, your misguided theology helps not one iota!

Nothing misguided as I quoted the OT prophecies fulfilled in the NT.

Ignorance is no excuse for the law/prophets.

Jesus’ ministry and death—Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Psalm 22:16-18: “Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.”got?

hope this helps !!!

 

[Francis Drake]

Nothing misguided as I quoted the OT prophecies fulfilled in the NT.

Ignorance is no excuse for the law/prophets.

You still don't get it do you? Knowledge of the future death of the Messiah was not relevant to the salvation of the OT saints!

Today you can look back and see it all after it was fulfilled, exactly as the disciples did.
But the OT saints were oblivious to the full interpretation of the prophecies.

If you believe otherwise, show me one scripture that proves they understood in advance..

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

You still don't get it do you? Knowledge of the future death of the Messiah was not relevant to the salvation of the OT saints!

Today you can look back and see it all after it was fulfilled, exactly as the disciples did.
But the OT saints were oblivious to the full interpretation of the prophecies.

If you believe otherwise, show me one scripture that proves they understood in advance..

Another fallacy.

Try Reading through the ENTIRE book of Hebrews as EVERYTHING pointed to His coming via the sacrificial system as the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world.

next.................