• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Allstate terminates manager over homosexuality column.

DarthMom

Member
Oct 19, 2004
65
7
✟215.00
Faith
Agnostic
Politics
US-Others
Zaac said:
Gosh. Vehemently is such a strong word. :) I would be happy to discuss this via PM with you if you so desire.
Well, it is a very strong emotion. IMO many christians who proclaim to be the "good christians" and attack the "others" are doing a massive injustice to Christ and Christianity. I don't really ahve a desire to discuss this, since these debates usually go nowhere, but maybe this time will be different :) I'll pm ya
 
Upvote 0

Thirst_For_Knowledge

I Am A New Title
Jan 20, 2005
6,610
340
42
Michigan
Visit site
✟8,524.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Alecto said:
Does anyone else find the article a little...fishy? WorldNet isnt the most credible media outlet, is there any other articles in other places that would support this article?

I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure this article, even if it is somewhat true, slants the facts to the side of the man that was fired. That's what worldnut does.

On the other hand, if everything that this article says is true and really happened the way that it says it did, I think the man's firing was wrong and that Allstate should definitly be penalized.
 
Upvote 0

Self Improvement

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2004
1,676
74
Minneapolis, MN
✟2,258.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Robert43 said:
On own time, man posted anti-'gay' article insurance giant says didn't reflect its values.

A former manager with Allstate has sued the insurance giant, alleging the company, which financially supports homosexual advocacy groups, fired him solely because he wrote a column posted on several websites that was critical of same-sex marriage and espoused his Christian beliefs.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961
Boo hoo. Go cry.
 
Upvote 0

MidnightBlue

June Carter, pray for us!
May 16, 2005
2,378
206
65
✟26,111.00
Faith
ChristianCenturion said:
I don't know for sure, but I will reflect my own opinion in that there have been several teacher/student scandals in the papers and those were not even physical education teachers (I believe). It only makes accountability and prevention sense to have the least likely orientation in charge of other peoples' children.

Yes, by all means. You want to make sure your kids have a nice heterosexual teacher like Mary Kay LeTourneau.
 
Upvote 0

Thirst_For_Knowledge

I Am A New Title
Jan 20, 2005
6,610
340
42
Michigan
Visit site
✟8,524.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
SnowBear said:
And if the written article were anti-black would people be trying to support and justify this man’s prejudice?



Hate is hate and pretending that somehow writing these things about gays and lesbians is good but writing them about blacks just shows the depts. Some will go to justify hatred and prejudice.

That doesn't matter. I don't care what he was writing. He had the right to write and feel and hate what he wishes. He has broken no law, and he has freedom to do these things without the fear of being fired.
 
Upvote 0

drlao23

Active Member
Jun 18, 2005
53
1
46
Kansas
✟22,679.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
Electric Sceptic said:
Allstate's actions in this case were unconscionable, and they should be penalised for firing the man. It's a violation of his basic civil rights.
While I am all for the free marketplace of ideas, I don't think it is a violation of the man's civil rights. No one has the right to be employed by anyone and in most states companies are free to fire an employee for pretty much any reason, other than sex, religion, race, age, and (sometimes) sexual orientation. Don't like your employee's hair style? You can fire them. Looking at it from the perspective of the employer, shouldn't they be able to choose who they wish to associate with?
 
Upvote 0

ChristianCenturion

Veteran / Tuebor
Feb 9, 2005
14,207
576
In front of a computer
✟40,488.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
MidnightBlue said:
Yes, by all means. You want to make sure your kids have a nice heterosexual teacher like Mary Kay LeTourneau.

Would you like to provide the quote where I state heterosexuality without qualifiers is by default 'good'?
Or are you simply giving her 'your' seal of approval?
How about Elizabeth Miklosovic, does she get an OK stamp of approval from you too?

Maybe in your haste to make a quip you missed that part of my post where I spoke AGAINST teachers with orientation TOWARDS the children regardless of hetero/homo and having accountability/prevention measures.
 
Upvote 0

ChristianCenturion

Veteran / Tuebor
Feb 9, 2005
14,207
576
In front of a computer
✟40,488.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
drlao23 said:
While I am all for the free marketplace of ideas, I don't think it is a violation of the man's civil rights. No one has the right to be employed by anyone and in most states companies are free to fire an employee for pretty much any reason, other than sex, religion, race, age, and (sometimes) sexual orientation. Don't like your employee's hair style? You can fire them. Looking at it from the perspective of the employer, shouldn't they be able to choose who they wish to associate with?

I take it that you disagree that his out of office activities had anything to do with the emboldened section?
 
Upvote 0

Thirst_For_Knowledge

I Am A New Title
Jan 20, 2005
6,610
340
42
Michigan
Visit site
✟8,524.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
ChristianCenturion said:
I take it that you disagree that his out of office activities had anything to do with the emboldened section?

Just to point out, that only qualifies for firing for being a certain religion. If my religion is potsmokersyum, I cannot be fired because of my religion. If part of my potsmokersyum duties is to smoke marijuana 420 times a day, including while sitting at my work desk, I can be fired because of this practice.
 
Upvote 0

ChristianCenturion

Veteran / Tuebor
Feb 9, 2005
14,207
576
In front of a computer
✟40,488.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
thirstforknowledge said:
Just to point out, that only qualifies for firing for being a certain religion. If my religion is potsmokersyum, I cannot be fired because of my religion. If part of my potsmokersyum duties is to smoke marijuana 420 times a day, including while sitting at my work desk, I can be fired because of this practice.

You'll have to do better, not all religious 'practices' are protected under that civil right, but I doubt that essay writing is among those that are not protected.
 
Upvote 0

Thirst_For_Knowledge

I Am A New Title
Jan 20, 2005
6,610
340
42
Michigan
Visit site
✟8,524.00
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
ChristianCenturion said:
You'll have to do better, not all religious 'practices' are protected under that civil right, but I doubt that essay writing is among those that are not protected.

The point remains the same.

You also can't get out of scheduled work days due to religious worship of holy days. That's another thing not protected. I do not agree with it, but I do believe that is the way the law works.
 
Upvote 0

ChristianCenturion

Veteran / Tuebor
Feb 9, 2005
14,207
576
In front of a computer
✟40,488.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
thirstforknowledge said:
The point remains the same.

You also can't get out of scheduled work days due to religious worship of holy days. That's another thing not protected. I do not agree with it, but I do believe that is the way the law works.

I'm not disagreeing in that there are limitations, but your mentioning it is a far distance from showing it as being exluded from that civil right.
 
Upvote 0

southernmissfan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2005
676
60
21
Visit site
✟23,639.00
Faith
Agnostic
MidnightBlue said:
Do you think that lesbians and gay men don't have families, or homes, or health care issues? No, most of the time they don't lose their benefits -- unless they work for Exxon. Most of the time they don't get the benefits in the first place. However, because they have none of the legal protections that married couples have, they do often lose their homes or their ability to care for their families. They may even be denied the right to visit their children because they're homosexual.

People who are happy with that situation, and who crusade to keep it that way, have no right to come whining when they're treated in a similar fashion.

They want to enforce their religious views on the population at large? They want to penalize people who don't obey their religious rules? Then they shouldn't complain at being penalized by somebody else's arbitrary rules.

If they want freedom only for themselves, they get no sympathy from me.

I agree 100%. I don't support Allstate's decision, but what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
 
Upvote 0

southernmissfan

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2005
676
60
21
Visit site
✟23,639.00
Faith
Agnostic
SnowBear said:
Hate is everyone’s issue

Pssst...Don't try to tell them that. Don't you know, if the specifics are not exactly the same, any comparison is thus an unwarranted hyperbole. It's right there in the "right-wing handbook", under "51 Ways to Call a Liberal anti-American" and "If everyone says there's a liberal media, then it must be true"...
 
Upvote 0

rnmomof7

Legend
Feb 9, 2002
14,503
735
Western NY
✟94,487.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
Mot hat on

mandrake.gif



Just a reminder that if this becomes a discussion on Homosexuality it is subject to the posting rules of CF.

Homosexuality Discussion Rules
All claims of fact relevant to the topic of homosexuality must be backed by evidence complete with citations. Standard citations are acceptable but links are prefered.
Justice Scalia Foo v. Bar 1992 is an acceptable citation but a link to the decision would be prefered if available.
Freud said blah blah blah is not an acceptable citation.
I missed your last post sorry for not responding. is an example of a statement of fact that does not require a citation.
Depression is an example of something that may be genetic that proves even if homosexuality is genetic that it is not necessarily good. is an example of something that needs a citation. In this case a citation for depression being genetic would be required.
Personal testimony and opinion are allowed, must be clearly stated as such, and posts cannot consist entirely of opinion or testimony they must have some factual claim that is relevant to the opinion or testimony stated.
God delivered me from the sin of homosexuality. would require some factual statement. In this case homosexuality being sinful would suffice and the relvant part of Romans 1 would serve as a citation.
Violation of these rules can and will result in any action allowable under protocol including Official Warnings and Forum Specific Bans.

Mot hat off
 
Upvote 0

ChristianCenturion

Veteran / Tuebor
Feb 9, 2005
14,207
576
In front of a computer
✟40,488.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I think it might be helpful to REGAIN the TOPIC from the hijack of some that feel that it should be 'all about me and my issue':

Robert43 said:
On own time, man posted anti-'gay' article insurance giant says didn't reflect its values.

A former manager with Allstate has sued the insurance giant, alleging the company, which financially supports homosexual advocacy groups, fired him solely because he wrote a column posted on several websites that was critical of same-sex marriage and espoused his Christian beliefs.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961

If some want to try justifying homosexuality, perhaps you could make ANOTHER thread as THAT being the OP.

With that said, critics of THIS OP have a large obsticle to get around:

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Federal Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) Laws

I. What Are the Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination?

...
Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
...
the Civil Rights Act of 1991, which, among other things, provides monetary damages in cases of intentional employment discrimination.

Looks like Allstate choosing to push their agenda is going to pay a substantial cost. :cool:
 
Upvote 0

SatKat

Active Member
Feb 26, 2005
82
7
Texas
✟227.00
Faith
Other Religion
Robert43 said:
On own time, man posted anti-'gay' article insurance giant says didn't reflect its values.

A former manager with Allstate has sued the insurance giant, alleging the company, which financially supports homosexual advocacy groups, fired him solely because he wrote a column posted on several websites that was critical of same-sex marriage and espoused his Christian beliefs.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44961

I didnt have time to read the article but...

Being a manager of a company, you'd think that he'd support most of the same values as the company. Obviously that company wasn't right for him, neither he for the company. I don't think they should have fired him though, everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. As long as he didn't critisize allstate for supporting gays. If he did than yeah, i could understand firing him.
 
Upvote 0

ChristianCenturion

Veteran / Tuebor
Feb 9, 2005
14,207
576
In front of a computer
✟40,488.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
SatKat said:
I didnt have time to read the article but...

Being a manager of a company, you'd think that he'd support most of the same values as the company. Obviously that company wasn't right for him, neither he for the company. I don't think they should have fired him though, everyone is allowed to have their own opinions. As long as he didn't critisize allstate for supporting gays. If he did than yeah, i could understand firing him.

:scratch: Um, wouldn't criticism of a company fall under opinions? And why does a company get off without accountability - isn't that the alleged rhetoric that Republicans get accused of?
If companies can't be addressed as notifying the public of being "gay friendly", then why is there so much published information FOR gays about such companies and nobody is complaining about that?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&biw=860&q=business+list+%22gay+friendly%22

Seems to be duplicity in action to complain about someone 'leaking' information about a company and what they support or don't support.

As for the rest, Allstate doesn't look like they will fair very well in light of this issue:
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=16516589&postcount=38

But then again, risk is their business.
 
Upvote 0