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Featured All Israel is saved

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by claninja, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    How can someone be condemned if they were never called? How can they believe.

    Did you ever notice while living here on earth our Lord was extremely kind. He picked up little children and blessed them. He healed all who were suffering with pain. While relatives were weeping over dead loved ones, He raised four of them to life again. The Saviour of all men said to the woman caught in adultery, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more” (Jn. 8:11). His kindness made an evangelist out of the wicked woman at the well (Jn. 4:29). Because Jesus really loved the weak, helpless creatures whom He had created, He wept over them, prayed for them and taught them continually. Except those religious Pharisees, Jesus never spoke one cross word to the unconverted masses. He was very tender and kind in all His dealings with men, even the most wicked among them. He sat at meat with the rich and ungodly and never upbraided them for their sins, shortcomings, and moral failures. His approach to them was very gentle, delicate, and considerate. Surely then, we are safer in His hands than anywhere else! The things He has in store for every one of us are far greater than we could plan for ourselves!

    These three principles are expressed in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who is God’s rainbow of promise around the throne. First, Jesus never condoned sin. How do I know this? Because, when the woman caught in adultery was left before Him, He spoke prophetically and redemptively into her life, saying, “Go, and sin no more.” I believe she did just that! His words were spirit and life unto her, transforming and lifting her life. Jesus did not come to condone our fallen state and sinful conduct, He came to save us from it! He didn’t come to say, “I’m O.K., you’re O.K., everybody’s O.K.” Everybody is not O.K.! Jesus was often forgiving sin and then admonishing, “Go and sin no more lest a worse thing come upon you.” He perfectly understood the law of sowing and reaping, the law of sin and death, with it’s inherent process of judgment.

    Hear me now! Secondly, Jesus never condemned the sinner! Never! His testimony was that “God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.” Though Jesus never condoned sin, He never condemned the sinner! He didn’t go around reminding men what terrible sinners they were. Most men already knew that! He didn’t counsel them about all the bad they had done or were doing. He knew what was in man, He understood that people really, within their own human strength and nature, could not help what they were! They needed compassion, love, mercy, and deliverance — not condemnation! Never, in all His years of ministry, did He ever condemn even one sinner! Jesus could do something that very few of our modern fundamentalist and evangelical preachers can do — He could preach salvation without first informing his audience about how fallen, rotten, wicked, and despicable they were, and how hot was the hell that awaited them if they didn’t repent! He didn’t say, “Repent, or you’re going to eternal hell!” On the contrary, He said, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” “Repent — because I have something infinitely better prepared for you!” Isn’t it wonderful!
     
  2. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    This may be trues sometimes but to many times your answer is to ignore the point totally..
     
  3. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have more of a ministry of condemnation than of grace
     
  4. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Are Spiritually Dead, Because they are born without the Word of God, in them, and some remain Spiritually Dead, because they choose to reject to Believe the Word of God.

    Become dead when their LIFE (ie blood), ceases functioning.

    No. No one needs to be quickened. However those that CHOOSE to believe in thier Heart, shall be quickened.

    No, that verse does not prove me wrong.
    And of course Jesus quickens a mans spirit.
    Jesus IS the quickening Spirit, and the Seed of God IS Christ Jesus, and Christ IS the Power of God.

    Yes, Jesus' suffered once.
    Yes, He suffered FOR the JUST, you know, ALL THE OT SAINTS?? Already JUSTIFIED and Faithful men?
    Yes, He suffered FOR the "UNJUST", you know, ALL the people BORN IN SIN, who can hear and CHOOSE to BELIEVE and GIVE their LIFE TO THE Lord......so He can Forgive them, and JUSTIFY them?

    Yes, He did go to Paradise, just like He said,
    Where Abraham and all the living souls faithful to God, waiting in Hell on the side of the Great Gulf WITH Father Abraham, were WAITING for Jesus' SOUL to be first to LEAVE, so they also could leave and go to be with God in Heaven.

    And Yes some souls in Hell with Abraham had been disobedient at times...

    Noah for example...mess up a very important direction.
    Gen 8:15
    Gen 8:18


    Nonsense, it is precisely Carnal men who ask for Forgivensess, and granted Forgiveness is rewarded with the Saving of their Soul.

    God does not SAVE the Spiritual, He saves the Natural Carnal man.
    Rom 5:8-9

    You are attempting to make DRAWN, a force without a choice considered. Which is false.
    God draws those whom he already KNNOWS shall choose Him.

    Do you not remember the Lord, when you were in your Mother's womb?
    He knew you and remembers you, and remembers IF you knew Him or not.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  5. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

    Colossians 1:5-6 "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth"

    Romans 10:17-18 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."


    John 3:18 "He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God."

    Who said that some have been judged already? Me or Jesus? You preach a double judgement for some and that does not hold true. It is once to die and they chose death when they rejected Christ and as a result of that choice of death God judged them on the spot. The same as God judged on the spot that those who embraced Christ and lived for Christ would not be judged.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  6. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Doesn't that presume they know who the Son of God is, or have ever heard of Him? What of those who never heard?

    What of those who died in their sins without ever hearing & never blasphemed the Holy Spirit? Their sins SHALL be pardoned. Jesus said so:

    28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

    31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
    32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)


    Since there are Scriptures speaking of multiple future ages (i.e. eons) to come (Eph.2:7; Rev.11:15, etc), there is the possibility that this sin against the Holy Spirit may be pardoned after the coming age. In fact it will be:

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

    More examples re aion/ios (& olam) being finite:

    Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

    12 points re forever and ever being finite:
    For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

    aionios life, 2 UR views, eon/ian ends, millennial eon, 1 Jn.1:2, Chrysoston, Origen, Dan 12 2-3:
    how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

    John 3:36, 3:16, 1 Jn.1:2, aionios life:
    Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

    Rev.14:9-11 & 20:10 & forever & ever a deceptive translation:
    If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

    Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

    For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

    Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46
     
  7. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

    Colossians 1:5-6 "For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth"

    Romans 10:17-18 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world."

    Paul tells you in Romans chapter one why they are already judged who loved wickedness.

    But it should be enough for you to know that David spoke of the place where some go and God does not remember them anymore so hw surely will not resurrect them to be judged a second time.

    I gave you those verses earlier in the OT. Put them together with Romans chapter one and understand how it works.

    Psalms 88:5 I am counted among them that go down to the pit: I am become as a man without help,
    6 free among the dead. Like the slain sleeping in the sepulchres, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cast off from thy hand.
    7 They have laid me in the lower pit: in the dark places, and in the shadow of death.
    8 Thy wrath is strong over me: and all thy waves thou hast brought in upon me.

    While David used it figuratively to contrast the extreme loss of favor he felt, it would be of no value as a comparison if it were not also true that there is a "lower pit" which is where ones go who due to wickedness were already judged per Romans chapter one and that God remembers no more to resurrect them. It is no sheer coincidence that they are spoken of as vanishing from all existence like the smoke from the fat of lambs being sacrificed. It is even described other ways that make it clear their destruction is final and complete.
     
  8. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Yea, in other words natural Israel. There was an ethnic (natural) remnant of ethnic (natural) Israel that God had chosen according to grace:

    Romans 9:27
    And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israelc be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

    Roman 11:1-6
    I ask, then, has God rejected his people (natural Israel)? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,a a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5So too at the present time there is a remnant (of ethnic natural Israel), chosen by grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

    You're absolutely right, God doesn't have an ethnicity.


    My point was that it appears Paul is addressing Jews who believed God had rejected his people and his word had failed, as many Jews had rejected Christ. The Jews were the ones who received the covenant, the blessings, and promises. They were the chosen people, so how could it be that many of them were rejecting the messiah.

    Twice Paul tells them that God's promises did not fail ethnic natural Israel.

    Romans 9:6a
    But it is not as though the word of God has failed.
    Romans 11:1
    I ask, then, has God rejected his people (natural Israel)? By no means!

    Paul's argument is that God's word/promises did not fail, because only the remnant of ethnic (natural) Israel is true Israel.

    Romans 9:6b-8
    For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

    Therefore, God saving only the remnant of natural (ethnic) Israel is saving ALL of natural (ethnic) Israel, as only the remnant of natural (ethnic) Israel is true Israel.
    ______________________________________________________________________________

    Now we know from multiple letters from Paul, that in the body of Christ, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile, for they are all one in Christ. The body of Christ, at the time of Paul, was the remnant natural Israel, and the gentiles:

    Romans 9:23-24
    in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

    Romans 11:17
    But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing rootc of the olive tree,

    However, in Romans 11:25-32, Paul is clearly making a distinction between natural (ethnic) Israel and the gentiles:
    Lest you be wise in your (gentiles) own sight, I do not want you (gentiles) to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:d a partial hardening has come upon (natural) Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26And in this way all (natural) Israel will be saved, as it is written,

    “The Deliverer will come from Zion,
    he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
    27“and this will be my covenant with them
    when I take away their sins.”

    28As regards the gospel, they (natural Israel) are enemies for your (gentiles) sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may nowe receive mercy. 32For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.
     
  9. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    What Gospel do you preach? Billion condemned? That is not good news.
     
  10. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    We are all born spiritually dead. In Adam ALL die. There is no choice in salvation God draws us quickens us. I posted John 6:44 and Eph 2 in context.
     
  11. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    HOGWASH. That is what the verse says I take Eph 2 over your opinion anyday. They are dead in trustpasses and sins. How do you make something alive if you are dead spiritually if you were Jesus. You quicken them... Make them alive.


    Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
    6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9Not of works, lest any man should boast

     
  12. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is that only "the world" as in the known world, or every nation or every individual? In any case it makes no reference to past centuries of history or the future, only the present. So my position still remains true:

    Doesn't that presume they know who the Son of God is, or have ever heard of Him? What of those who never heard?

    What of those who died in their sins without ever hearing & never blasphemed the Holy Spirit? Their sins SHALL be pardoned. Jesus said so:

    28 Verily, I am saying to you that all shall be pardoned the sons of mankind, the penalties of the sins and the blasphemies, whatsoever they should be blaspheming, 29 yet whoever should be blaspheming against the holy spirit is having no pardon for the eon, but is liable to the eonian penalty for the sin-" 30 for they said, "An unclean spirit has he." (Mark 3, CLV)

    31 Therefore I am saying to you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be pardoned men, yet the blasphemy of the spirit shall not be pardoned."
    32 And whosoever may be saying a word against the Son of Mankind, it will be pardoned him, yet whoever may be saying aught against the holy spirit, it shall not be pardoned him, neither in this eon nor in that which is impending. (Mt.12:31-32, CLV)

    Since there are Scriptures speaking of multiple future ages (i.e. eons) to come (Eph.2:7; Rev.11:15, etc), there is the possibility that this sin against the Holy Spirit may be pardoned after the coming age. In fact it will be:

    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

    Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many shall be constituted just."

    The context only refers to those who "suppress the truth by their wickedness" (Rom.1:18), not the ignorant, of whom Jesus said "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do".

    If the Psalmist is correct that they are remembered by God no more, then why does Jesus say all will rise (Jn.5:28-29) & refer to the judgement day of Sodom being more tolerable than for others? Given the choice between Jesus' words, which are certainly the word of truth, & those of David the adulterous murderer, i'll opt for door number one. Also does God literally blot out His own memories or is He omniscient?

    Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
    Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
    32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  13. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not confused.

    Thanks for sharing, but I made no reference to that passage.

    Perhaps you should not presume and conclude confusion.

    Isa 45:23
    Rom 14:11

    In brief, and requires one to deeply study.

    Absolutely every body shall be raised.
    Every body shall bow to the Lord.
    Every body shall be present before the Lord and be judged.

    Some souls have become saved, their spirit quickened, and their body's raised in glory.

    Some soul have not become saved, nor their spirits quickened, and their body's raised in contempt. Life departed from their souls, Souls departed from their body, and both body and soul destroyed.
    Matt 10:28

    A hint for you;

    I am speaking of men of the earth, not Jesus.

    You are off point, to anything I said.


    You are off point.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  14. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    That's true. And WHY DOES God call a man?
    Oh, right, because He knows all things. He knew you in the womb. He knew you WOULD choose to stand WITH Him.

    And HOW does God call a man, WHOM God knew would choose to stand WITH him?

    By drawing the man unto Him?
    By dragging the man to the ALTER to confess?
    No.
    By tugging at his heart, (where the mans natural spirit of truth is) ?
    Yes.
    By putting things in the mans path that sparks the mans interest to start seeking God?
    Yes.

    Men (whom God draws) are men who experience, "something", a feeling, an encounter with another, a sermon, an
    Experience to feel the need to go call on the name of the Lord and give their Living Body to the Lord. (Rom 12:1)



    Your repeating yourself.
    Not all choose to me "IN CHRIST".
    Those who CHOOSE to be "IN CHRIST'...
    Are "IN CHRIST'.



    Yes, they are HIS, because you know, they gave their LIVING BODY TO HIM.

    And yes, He shall come and REDEEM them unto HIMSELF. Well revealed in Scripture.



    There is NO DOUBT, "WHICH EVERY MAN" is being spoken of. Because it IS "EVERY MAN" "IN CHRIST".

    And EVERY MAN who ever existed and shall exist, are NOT ALL "IN CHRIST".



    PROBLEM ~ PROBLEM ~ PROBLEM

    You have to IGNORE the DIVISION, to come to your conclusion.

    There are ALL men IN CHRIST.
    And there there are ALL men NOT IN CHRIST.

    When Scripture is speaking SPECIFICIALLY of ALL MEN IN CHRIST....

    It DOES NOT INCLUDE, ALL MEN NOT IN CHRIST.

    IF YOU want ALL men, regardless of their Standing to BE INCLUDED...you will need to discard Gods Word, of His OWN DIVISION.

    He that is NOT WITH ME, is AGAINST ME.
    Matt 12:30

    God saves a man "WHO" HARKENS to HIS WORD, but you should know by Scripture, by observance, NOT ALL MEN CHOOSE to Harken to, or subject themselves to His Word.

    Deut 30:10.
    (TO the Hebrews UNDER THE LAW)
    "IF"
    Thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD they God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this bool of law
    AND
    "IF" thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all they soul.

    Deut 30:20
    ...that thou may cleave unto Him; FOR HIS IS thy LIFE...

    Deut 30:15
    SEE, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil.

    Deut:30:17, 18, 19. (Reject to hearken)....
    Turn away, drawn away, denounce you, you shall perish, heaven and earth records against you,

    Gentiles, not under the Law...
    Have the same command to Harken to His
    Word,...

    Rom 12:1
    Present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable UNTO GOD.

    Matt 22: 37
    Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all they heart, and with all they soul, and with all they mind.

    How do dead men, who have died NOT IN CHRIST, NOT loving the Lord with ALL
    their heart, with ALL their soul, with ALL their mind, choose AS a DEAD man, TO Love the Lord with ALL their heart, with ALL their soul, with ALL their mind....?

    Thanks,
    God Bless,
    SBC[/QUOTE]
    If you want me to respond to your post try one issue at a time.

    "As in (Greek, (en) in, with, by) Adam all die, even so in (in, with, by) Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23). these words can be interchanged. in Christ, by Christ, with Christ so you "in Christ holds no water.

    Carnal man cannot choose God he is carnal. Its carnal mans nature to reject God because he is dead in trustpasses and sin and until God calls/draws/drags him he simply cannot come because he is carnal and dead to the realm of God. it is his nature to reject God because we are all dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam sin.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

    No one has freewill to choose God. It was God will; not little Adams that Adam fell.

    Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

    Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
    There is no one who looks to God for help.

    Romans 3:9 (MSG) So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

    There's nobody living right, not even one,
    nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
    They've all taken the wrong turn;
    they've all wandered down blind alleys.
    No one's living right;
    I can't find a single one.
    Their throats are gaping graves,
    their tongues slick as mudslides.
    Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
    They open their mouths and pollute the air.
    They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
    litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
    Don't know the first thing about living with others.
    They never give God the time of day.
    This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin.[/QUOTE]

    True. - God draws a carnal man.
    True. - When a man is drawn he seeks God.
    True. - God saves a carnal man.

    Now consider WHY an ALL KNOWING God draws some men TO Him and not others.

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  15. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Not a winner.

    A blind man leading blind men. And that is not a slam. It is a simple reality describing the truth of why you do not see and you need to understand it, you and SBC and all of you who are blind, for the only way to get unblind is to understand that your own ideas are keeping you blind even as the ideas of those who argued with Jesus kept them blind.

    You guys all feel like I ignore most of what you say but that is all a part of your blindness. Neither Jesus nor any of the Apostles nor any good preacher of God's word got into the blind ideas of others to waste time debating. They focused on the truth and kept stating that truth until that truth finally took root and by that truth taking root their listeners could then begin to see that their former ideas were blind.

    For that reason you find the preachers of God's word in the Bible only ever making brief and very simple statements concerning the wrong ideas of their blind listeners and quickly getting onto stating what the truth was and is.

    You people are blind and until you actually begin to listen to even Jesus whom you are refusing to hear when he tells you they that reject him are already judged, guess what that makes and keeps you? No. not just blind. More than that. It makes you just as those who refused by reason of blindness to listen to Jesus.

    Hear Jesus and stop wasting your opportunity:

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  16. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    In brief..

    Hebrews/Jews/Abraham/......a descending line of "Gods People"...

    All of Abraham's STOCK descendants shall not be saved. The remnant is those directly from Abraham's STOCK, that shall be saved.

    Abraham's STOCK who remained in the Word of God, receive a saved soul, quickened spirit...

    Introducing the Gentiles, who hear, trust, believe, give their life to God, receive a saved soul, quickened spirit....

    The Children of Promise ~
    Promise to Abraham;
    1) He shall be a Father of many Nations.
    2) His descendants shall inherit the Lands given to Abraham.

    Nations -
    People of world countries

    Children of Abraham -
    ALL who receive the indwelling Spirit of God -
    Which follows After -
    Belief, submission, forgiveness, receiving of restored (saved) soul, quickened (born again spirit).

    I am a Gentile. My earthly father is Abraham.
    I am entitled to occupy the land forever promised to Abraham's descendants.

    I am included as Abraham's child, his inheritance, BECAUSE, I am saved and born again, OF the Seed of God.

    Guess who else, fulfilled, being a Son of Abraham, entitled by promise to his Land??

    Someone who has an earthly Kingdom coming soon. :)

    Acts 13:26
    Gal 3:16
    Rom 9:27
    Gal 3:7

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  17. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Billion have not believed because they were never called. That is a fact and you know it talk about being BLIND.

    1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


    Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."


    1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

    23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
     
  18. Soar Like and Eagle

    Soar Like and Eagle Well-Known Member

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    If you want me to respond to your post try one issue at a time.

    "As in (Greek, (en) in, with, by) Adam all die, even so in (in, with, by) Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order." (1 Corinthians 15:22-23). these words can be interchanged. in Christ, by Christ, with Christ so you "in Christ holds no water.

    Carnal man cannot choose God he is carnal. Its carnal mans nature to reject God because he is dead in trustpasses and sin and until God calls/draws/drags him he simply cannot come because he is carnal and dead to the realm of God. it is his nature to reject God because we are all dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam sin.

    1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.

    No one has freewill to choose God. It was God will; not little Adams that Adam fell.

    Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

    Romans 3:11 (AMP) No one understands [no one intelligently discerns or comprehends]; no one seeks out God.

    Romans 3:11 (NCV) 11 There is no one who understands.
    There is no one who looks to God for help.

    Romans 3:9 (MSG) So where does that put us? Do we Jews get a better break than the others? Not really. Basically, all of us, whether insiders or outsiders, start out in identical conditions, which is to say that we all start out as sinners. Scripture leaves no doubt about it:

    There's nobody living right, not even one,
    nobody who knows the score, nobody alert for God.
    They've all taken the wrong turn;
    they've all wandered down blind alleys.
    No one's living right;
    I can't find a single one.
    Their throats are gaping graves,
    their tongues slick as mudslides.
    Every word they speak is tinged with poison.
    They open their mouths and pollute the air.
    They race for the honor of sinner-of-the-year,
    litter the land with heartbreak and ruin,
    Don't know the first thing about living with others.
    They never give God the time of day.
    This makes it clear, doesn't it, that whatever is written in these Scriptures is not what God says about others but to us to whom these Scriptures were addressed in the first place! And it's clear enough, isn't it, that we're sinners, every one of us, in the same sinking boat with everybody else? Our involvement with God's revelation doesn't put us right with God. What it does is force us to face our complicity in everyone else's sin.[/QUOTE]

    True. - God draws a carnal man.
    True. - When a man is drawn he seeks God.
    True. - God saves a carnal man.

    Now consider WHY an ALL KNOWING God draws some men TO Him and not others.

    God Bless,
    SBC[/QUOTE]
    Because He has many ages He can draw all men to him. All you see is the "in Christ" knowing the Greek word 'en" means in, with and by so that holds no water because these words can be interchanged. Than you totally ignore the last part. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

    1 Corinthians 15:22-24 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.



    (order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession
     
  19. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    Not a winner. Blind men leading blind men. You don't even listen to Jesus because you are blinded by the dazzling of your own ideas. The following is how Jesus says it goes:

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not [are billions and are] condemned already, because [they] hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God [in spirit and truth].
     
  20. Buzz_B

    Buzz_B Well-Known Member

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    MORE BLINDING OF YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN FALSE IDEAS DUMP YOUR INFACTUATION WITH YOUR OWN WISDOM AND HEAR JESUS:

    John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is [NOW BY YOUR TIME BILLIONS AND IS] CONDEMNED ALREADY, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
     
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