All Israel is saved

[Soar Like and Eagle]

I like your broader view of that verse for I often use it to show that the earth is meant to be one of those abodes had not sin caused its debasement.

Jesus blood will take care of Adam's sin and has many ages to do this. God is going to restore the earth, your earth my earth the whole earth.

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

looks pretty darn big to me.

 

[Buzz_B]

Jesus blood will take care of Adam's sin and has many ages to do this. God is going to restore the earth, your earth my earth the whole earth.

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

looks pretty darn big to me.

There is no doubt that God is not seeking to destroy but to save. That does not necessarily mean he will save all, but it will be a sizable number for sure. However, it is contingent upon having "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb", as verse 14 says. That is the beginner's status for they yet must be shepherded to the fountains of living water as verse 17 says.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

There is no doubt that God is not seeking to destroy but to save. That does not necessarily mean he will save all, but it will be a sizable number for sure. However, it is contingent upon having "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb", as verse 14 says. That is the beginner's status for they yet must be shepherded to the fountains of living water as verse 17 says.

I disagree. God caused man to fall and God will restore of of His creation in God's timing. We have posted various verses that declare this and I see one of most significant is Acts 15: (ESV) 16 "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.'

What is the Tabernacle of David to you?


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) J I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this


Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,


Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,


Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.'


Amos 9:1 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David (Zion/remnant/ firstfruits) that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: (God's Spiritual temple) 12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this. 13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. (time frame) 14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

The religious system has no clue on what this verse is declaring







Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.



Latin Vulgate
15:17 ut requirant ceteri hominum Dominum et omnes gentes super quas invocatum est nomen meum dicit Dominus faciens haec

King James Version
15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

American Standard Version
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,

Bible in Basic English
15:17 So that the rest of men may make search for the Lord, and all the Gentiles on whom my name is named,

Darby's English Translation
15:17 so that the residue of men may seek out the Lord, and all the nations on whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who does these things

Douay Rheims
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who doth these things.

Noah Webster Bible
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Weymouth New Testament
15:17 In order that the rest of mankind may earnestly seek the Lord--even all the nations which are called by My name,'

World English Bible
15:17 That the rest of men may seek after the Lord; All the Gentiles who are called by my name, Says the Lord, who does all these things.

Young's Literal Translation
15:17 that the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the nations, upon whom My name hath been called, saith the Lord, who is doing all these things.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

That the residue of men - This verse is quoted literally from the Septuagint, and differs in some respects from the Hebrew. The phrase, “the residue of men,” here is evidently understood, both by the Septuagint and by James, as referring to others than Jews, to the Gentiles the rest of the world - implying that many of them would be admitted to the friendship and favor of God. The

And all the Gentiles - Heb. all the pagan; that is, all who were not Jews. This was a clear prediction that other nations were to be favored with the true religion, and that without any mention of their conforming to the rites of the Jewish people.

Bibliography
Barnes, Albert. "Commentary on Acts 15:17". "Barnes' Notes on the New Testament". https:Acts 15 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible. 1870.

 

[Buzz_B]

I disagree. God caused man to fall and God will restore of of His creation in God's timing. We have posted various verses that declare this and I see one of most significant is Acts 15: (ESV) 16 "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17 that the remnant of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18 known from of old.'

What is the Tabernacle of David to you?


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) J I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this


Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,


Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,


Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.'


Amos 9:1 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David (Zion/remnant/ firstfruits) that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: (God's Spiritual temple) 12That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this. 13Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt. (time frame) 14 And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them. 15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

The religious system has no clue on what this verse is declaring







Acts 15: 13-18 (ESV) 16(A) "'After this I will return,and I will rebuild the tent of David that has fallen;I will rebuild its ruins, and I will restore it 17that the remnant of mankind(B) may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles(C) who are called by my name, says the Lord, who makes these things 18(D) known from of old.'


Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets: After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house; I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing. "God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this

Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,

Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,

Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)

Now if the rest of men may seek the Lord, All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing “, “ all the Gentiles , the “remainder of man kind are destroyed as you proclaim in the Lake of Devine Purging (Lake of Fire); then what about this promise.



Latin Vulgate
15:17 ut requirant ceteri hominum Dominum et omnes gentes super quas invocatum est nomen meum dicit Dominus faciens haec

King James Version
15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

American Standard Version
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, And all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called,

Bible in Basic English
15:17 So that the rest of men may make search for the Lord, and all the Gentiles on whom my name is named,

Darby's English Translation
15:17 so that the residue of men may seek out the Lord, and all the nations on whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who does these things

Douay Rheims
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all nations upon whom my name is invoked, saith the Lord, who doth these things.

Noah Webster Bible
15:17 That the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Weymouth New Testament
15:17 In order that the rest of mankind may earnestly seek the Lord--even all the nations which are called by My name,'

World English Bible
15:17 That the rest of men may seek after the Lord; All the Gentiles who are called by my name, Says the Lord, who does all these things.

Young's Literal Translation
15:17 that the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the nations, upon whom My name hath been called, saith the Lord, who is doing all these things.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

That the residue of men - This verse is quoted literally from the Septuagint, and differs in some respects from the Hebrew. The phrase, “the residue of men,” here is evidently understood, both by the Septuagint and by James, as referring to others than Jews, to the Gentiles the rest of the world - implying that many of them would be admitted to the friendship and favor of God. The

And all the Gentiles - Heb. all the pagan; that is, all who were not Jews. This was a clear prediction that other nations were to be favored with the true religion, and that without any mention of their conforming to the rites of the Jewish people.

Bibliography
Barnes, Albert. "Commentary on Acts 15:17". "Barnes' Notes on the New Testament". https:Acts 15 Commentary - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible. 1870.

We do differ here in this post. You aren't saying you think the physical tent of David is to be rebuilt are you? I am a bit unsure of whether or not you mean that.

Instead of relying upon Babylon's works of translation and exegesis, try this out:
Acts 15:14
sumewn exeegeesato kathws prwton ho theos
SIMEON RELATED OUT ACCORDING AS FIRSTLY THE GOD
4826 1834 2531 4412 3588 2316
epeskepsato labein ex ethnwn laon tw onomati
LOOKED UPON TO TAKE OUT OF NATIONS PEOPLE TO THE NAME
1980 2983 1537 1484 2992 3588 3686
autou
OF HIM.
0846_3
Acts 15:15
kai toutw sumphwnousin hoi logoi twn
AND TO THIS ARE SOUNDING TOGETHER THE WORDS OF THE
2532 3778_6 4856 3588 3056 3588
propheetwn kathws gegraptai
PROPHETS, ACCORDING AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN
4396 2531 1125
Acts 15:16
meta tauta anastrepsw kai anoikodomeesw
AFTER THESE (THINGS) I SHALL TURN UP AND I SHALL REBUILD
3326 3778_93 0390 2532 0456
teen skeeneen daueid teen peptwkuian kai ta
THE TENT OF DAVID THE (ONE) HAVING FALLEN AND THE (THINGS)
3588 4633 1160_5 3588 4098 2532 3588
katestrammena autees anoikodomeesw kai
HAVING BEEN TURNED DOWN OF IT I SHALL REBUILD AND
2690 0846_4 0456 2532
anorthwsw auteen
I SHALL ERECT AGAIN IT,
0461 0846_8
Acts 15:17
hopws an ekzeeteeswsin hoi kataloipoi twn
SO THAT LIKELY SHOULD SEEK OUT THE LEFTOVER ONES OF THE
3704 0302 1567 3588 2645 3588
anthrwpwn ton kurion kai panta ta ethnee eph hous
MEN THE LORD, AND ALL THE NATIONS UPON WHOM
0444 3588 2962 2532 3956 3588 1484 1909 3739
epikekleetai to onoma mou ep autous legei
HAS BEEN CALLED UPON THE NAME OF ME UPON THEM, IS SAYING
1941 3588 3686 1473_2 1909 0846_95 3004
kurios poiwn tauta
LORD DOING THESE (THINGS)
2962 4160 3778_93
Acts 15:18
gnwsta ap aiwnos
KNOWN FROM AGE.
1110 0575 0165

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

We do differ here in this post. You aren't saying you think the physical tent of David is to be rebuilt are you? I am a bit unsure of whether or not you mean that.

Instead of relying upon Babylon's works of translation and exegesis, try this out:
Acts 15:14
sumewn exeegeesato kathws prwton ho theos
SIMEON RELATED OUT ACCORDING AS FIRSTLY THE GOD
4826 1834 2531 4412 3588 2316
epeskepsato labein ex ethnwn laon tw onomati
LOOKED UPON TO TAKE OUT OF NATIONS PEOPLE TO THE NAME
1980 2983 1537 1484 2992 3588 3686
autou
OF HIM.
0846_3
Acts 15:15
kai toutw sumphwnousin hoi logoi twn
AND TO THIS ARE SOUNDING TOGETHER THE WORDS OF THE
2532 3778_6 4856 3588 3056 3588
propheetwn kathws gegraptai
PROPHETS, ACCORDING AS IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN
4396 2531 1125
Acts 15:16
meta tauta anastrepsw kai anoikodomeesw
AFTER THESE (THINGS) I SHALL TURN UP AND I SHALL REBUILD
3326 3778_93 0390 2532 0456
teen skeeneen daueid teen peptwkuian kai ta
THE TENT OF DAVID THE (ONE) HAVING FALLEN AND THE (THINGS)
3588 4633 1160_5 3588 4098 2532 3588
katestrammena autees anoikodomeesw kai
HAVING BEEN TURNED DOWN OF IT I SHALL REBUILD AND
2690 0846_4 0456 2532
anorthwsw auteen
I SHALL ERECT AGAIN IT,
0461 0846_8
Acts 15:17
hopws an ekzeeteeswsin hoi kataloipoi twn
SO THAT LIKELY SHOULD SEEK OUT THE LEFTOVER ONES OF THE
3704 0302 1567 3588 2645 3588
anthrwpwn ton kurion kai panta ta ethnee eph hous
MEN THE LORD, AND ALL THE NATIONS UPON WHOM
0444 3588 2962 2532 3956 3588 1484 1909 3739
epikekleetai to onoma mou ep autous legei
HAS BEEN CALLED UPON THE NAME OF ME UPON THEM, IS SAYING
1941 3588 3686 1473_2 1909 0846_95 3004
kurios poiwn tauta
LORD DOING THESE (THINGS)
2962 4160 3778_93
Acts 15:18
gnwsta ap aiwnos
KNOWN FROM AGE.
1110 0575 0165

Amen. So why The Tent/Tabernacle of David?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Amen. So why The Tent/Tabernacle of David?

It is symbolic of what God is going to do in the ages to come. its far more than just a tent. So why is God do this in the ages to come?

 

[Buzz_B]

Amen. So why The Tent/Tabernacle of David?

David is the figure of Christ. In the true Christian congregation as described at Hebrews 12:22-24, all are considered to be in that tent of David.

Christ became the seed whom God had promised David would be seated upon his throne that David's throne be forever. We see that at Acts 2:30 among other places in Scripture.

Just because it is spiritual does not mean that these ones who are the building stones of that tent cannot exist right here in the flesh. It is just they are in that tent by spirit rather than by flesh, So not all who are in a physical congregation can necessarily be in God's true congregation. However, because it is spiritual it can exist anywhere.

 

[Buzz_B]

It is symbolic of what God is going to do in the ages to come. its far more than just a tent. So why is God do this in the ages to come?

Ephesians 2:7 "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

There are two earth ages left. The thousand year judgment period wherein God will salvage as many of the non-wicked ones who would at least accept faith in Christ so as to have their robes washed for the imputed status of life that they may be brought back to complete spiritual life. These are the resurrection of the unjust for they have not lived and walked in Christ long enough to become completely spiritually healed.

Then the final age spoken of in Scripture is after the final test when death is swallowed up by life forever more.

 

[ClementofA]

Ephesians 2:7 "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

There are two earth ages left. The thousand year judgment period wherein God will salvage as many of the non-wicked ones who would at least accept faith in Christ so as to have their robes washed for the imputed status of life that they may be brought back to complete spiritual life. These are the resurrection of the unjust for they have not lived and walked in Christ long enough to become completely spiritually healed.

Then the final age spoken of in Scripture is after the final test when death is swallowed up by life forever more.

When death is abolished (1 Cor.15:26) God becomes all in ALL (v.28), including all those who were in Adam (v.22).

"Just as surely as the abolition of slavery entails freedom for those formerly enslaved, the abolition of death entails life for those formerly dead."

And the seventh messenger did sound, and there came great voices in the heaven, saying, 'The kingdoms of the world did become those of our Lord and of His Christ, and he shall reign into the ages of the ages!' (Rev.11:15)

3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be within the city, and His servants will worship Him. 4 They will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And night shall not be any more, and no need of a lamp, and light of the sun; for the Lord God shall shine upon them, and they shall reign into the ages of ages. (Rev.22:3-5)

The verses above indicate Christ & the saints shall be reigning "into the ages of the ages", including the millenial age & the age when the lake of fire (= the 2nd death) is abolished. But 1 Cor.15:25 says Christ's reign is UNTIL He has put all enemies under His feet. Since He is still reigning at the time of Revelation 20-22, all enemies are not yet under His feet. So neither can God yet be "All in all" (1 Cor.15:28) nor death [e.g. 2nd death] abolished.

So death is not abolished (1 Cor.15:26), since that is associated with the end of Christ's reign (v.25) & will not happen till He quits reigning. Also those humans who died a second death in the lake of fire, which is the second death, are still dead, so death is not yet abolished (v.26). As long as the second death remains & is not abolished, death is not abolished as per v.26.

Neither is "all rule and authority and power" yet nullified (1 Cor.15:24) by Revelation 21-22. There are still kings in the earth (Rev.21:24). There is still the throne of the Lamb & the saints reigning (22:3,5). So neither is death abolished or God "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28).

God cannot be "all in all" (1 Cor.15:28) while there are still those in the second death & those being tormented in the lake of fire (Rev.14:9-11; 19:20; 20:10).

In Revelation 22:2 we also have leaves that are for the healing of the nations. Who at this time would need healing? Those in the lake of fire.

Rev.15:4 Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

This sounds like just payback, not endless annihilation or tortures:

Rev.18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

"The Prophets are full of similar teaching. Note Isaiah connecting the words of comfort and pardon to Israel with her having received 'double for all her sins' (Isa 40:1-2). So it is said, 'Zion shall be redeemed with judgment' (Isa 1:27)...this connection of judgment and salvation runs through the Bible....So in Ezekiel 24:13-14, it is said of Israel, 'You shall not be purged of your filthiness any more, till I have satisfied my fury upon you.'"

Christ Triumphant, Part Three: Universalism Asserted on the Authority of Scripture

Rev.21:5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making all new!” All is not yet new while there are still those dead or suffering in the lake of fire.

This includes everyone in the universe, including the dead and demons:

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

John speaks of "every creature" & to emphasize this again he repeats "and all that are in them":

Rev.5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

This worship (v.13) uses the same worshipful words as the redeemed of vs 9-10 use in v.12:

12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

All this being in the context of salvation - "the Lamb that was slain" (v.12 & 13).

In the Book of Revelation, the phrase "kings of the earth" appears 7 times in Rev 6:15; 17:2,18; 18:3,9; 19:19; 21:24. In all but the last citation the kings of the earth are portrayed in Revelation as aligned with Mystery Babylon and are the enemies of God. Yet, in 21:24 we find that the "kings of the earth" will one day bring their splendor into the New Jerusalem. One must therefore ask how or why are the kings of the earth who are consistently and without exception portrayed in Revelation as evil and unrepentant, allowed into the New Jerusalem where "nothing unclean will ever enter it, nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but only those who are written in the Lamb's book of life" (21:27). I cannot find any scriptural evidence that these kings of the earth are any different than the previous references. Therefore the only conclusion I can arrive at is it that appears that even the kings of the earth after having spent some unknown time in the lake of fire will one day repent and be allowed to enter into the New Jerusalem.

That recalls some passages in the OT about kings:

Psalm 72:11
Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

Psalm 102:15
So the nations will fear the name of the LORD And all the kings of the earth Your glory.

Psalm 138:4
All the kings of the earth will give thanks to You, O LORD, When they have heard the words of Your mouth.

Isaiah 60
2"For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you. 3"Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.

Isaiah 62:2
The nations will see your righteousness, And all kings your glory; And you will be called by a new name Which the mouth of the LORD will designate.

Revelation 21:24
By its light the nations will walk, and into it the kings of the earth will bring their glory.


Examples re aion/ios (& olam) being finite:

Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell

12 points re forever and ever being finite:
For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

aionios life, 2 UR views, eon/ian ends, millennial eon, 1 Jn.1:2, Chrysoston, Origen, Dan 12 2-3:
how do people who believe in eternal torture in fire

John 3:36, 3:16, 1 Jn.1:2, aionios life:
Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

Rev.14:9-11 & 20:10 & forever & ever a deceptive translation:
If endless conscious torments were true, is God a monster?

Have you been decieved by your Bible translation?

For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:

Augustine's ignorance & error re Matthew 25:46

 

[SBC]

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
Romans 11:26

1.) All Israel will be saved is referring to ethnic Israel based on surrounding context.

As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
Romans 11:28

2.) Only the remnant of Israel is saved

And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,
Romans 9:27

How is ONLY the remnant of Israel saved AND ALL Israel saved?

3.) Not all Israel is Israel

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.
Romans 9:6-8

Agree.

Only the ethnic remant is true Israel, therefore, God saving all the ethnic remnant of Israel chosen according grace, is saving All ethnic Israel.

"Ethnic remnant" ?

Not sure God has an ethnicity.
The Saving is BY and THROUGH Christ,
UNTO God.

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Buzz_B]

ClementofA,

Please do not be offended but I do not intend to respond to the flood you have spewed out of your mouth.

Have a good day.

Edit: Here is an example of one who uses that kind of flood: Revelation 12:15

Perhaps you may wish to consider that you do not desire to do the same as that one. As for me, I ride the Ark of Salvation atop such floods and see no value in entertaining them. So if you wish to speak with me be a bit more concise on a specific point or two and drop all the shortcuts to your celebrated speeches.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Ephesians 2:7 "That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus."

There are two earth ages left. The thousand year judgment period wherein God will salvage as many of the non-wicked ones who would at least accept faith in Christ so as to have their robes washed for the imputed status of life that they may be brought back to complete spiritual life. These are the resurrection of the unjust for they have not lived and walked in Christ long enough to become completely spiritually healed.

Then the final age spoken of in Scripture is after the final test when death is swallowed up by life forever more.

I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages

Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.


1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.

2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)

3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)

4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.

5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.

6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.

7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.





Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.


What I believe is when we come to the age of ages; then all will be all; but there will always be more. God does not deal with man in eternities; He deals with ages. I believe there are many ages to come; and there have been ages that have ended. Only God can answer how many ages there are; we know in part until that which is perfect has come; that which is part shall be done away with.


I do not believe in rapture; to me this is just another escapism doctrine; yes we will be caught up in the air; but I am not going to literalize this verse (we should do another Forum on this subject). What I do believe is God wants overcomer; not escapist and that is all the so called Rapture accomplishes.


.Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Let me talk about this tent/tabernacle of David and yes as you mentioned David is the figure of Christ. In the true Christian congregation as described at Hebrews 12:22-24, all are considered to be in that tent of David. And yes the true REMNANT congregation as described at Hebrews 12:22-24. Not all believers for there are some special key points here we need to look at.

Glory
Zion
SaviorS
Art of the Covenant
Melchizedek Priesthood
Hidden Manna

Pro. 25: 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

All of these above items and more are relevant to this tent of David.

The Tabernacle of David; here was a small tent where the Ark of God was brought to Mount Zion/Sion; (the natural throne room of David) where the court of David was. All David's government officials from worked and perhaps lived on this mt Zion. This was not Jerusalem or the nation of Israel this was a place of ruler-ship and now it had become the temple of the Ark of the covenant.
Mount Zion was mentioned 152 times in OT; where Sion was mention 7 times in NT; sure this was David’s home Solomon etc; but is also a symbolism.
Zion was the natural home of King David who is a type of Christ in Natural Jerusalem. Mt Zion was the head of natural Kingdom; just as Spiritual Mt Zion is the Spiritual high place of Christ in the book of Revelation. David did not need to go to a priest; let alone a high priest to visit the Ark (or the glory of God) it was in a tent or tabernacle on his back porch at Mt Zion. This is a beautiful type which tells us myriads of what God is tying to tell us in the Spirit of the Word.

David was king; He was God’s anointed King David lived in Jerusalem and Mount Zion (Sion); That is where the earthly anointed King lived and all His court; what a wonderful type of the ruler ship of the spiritual Mount Zion.


When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.


2 Samuel 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD


Point being God is going to reestablish the Tabernacle of David in a called out people to become kings and priest unto God for the remainder of God’s people he has not called.

 

[Buzz_B]

ClementofA.

I will do you the courtesy of beginning a more properly condensed conversation:

What is God's basic plan of salvation? 1 Corinthians 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”

Proper exegesis of that verse allows for it to be stated: “For as all [who are] in Adam die, even so all [who are] in Christ shall be made alive.” And it does not imply what ClementofA misrepresents the Greek “pas” to mean. The Greek “pas” is properly able to be rendered various ways, as it is a very context dependent word insofar as exactly what it implies when used.

The direct rendering in order for 1 Cor 15:22, reads: “AS EVEN FOR IN THE ADAM ALL ARE DYING, THUS ALSO IN THE CHRIST ALL WILL BE MADE ALIVE.”

Now think about that. All Paul said was that “For even as all who are in Adam are dying, so also, even all who are in Christ will be made alive.” It is so simple a grade school child could understand that it does not mean all who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ. Clearly anyone pushing the idea that it does mean that has a biased based agenda. The comparison is straight forward, just as all those who are in Adam ARE DYING, all those who are in Christ WILL BE MADE ALIVE. And it is wrong to stretch that verse beyond that. The Greek grammar does not support going beyond that nor does the meaning of the word, “pas.”

If Paul meant that literally all who die in Adam would be saved in Christ, how would he have worded that in Greek? Instead of using the word, “pas”, he would have used the word, “hekastos”, which is more definite in meaning than is “pas.” This is why in speaking of who are to be judged, Paul uses the word “hekastos” to mean “all” without exception.

I already abolished your incorrect view of Romans 5:12-19.

I am not saying that you accepted it but that your arguments trying to overturn what I said were so obviously failures that you certainly should have accepted it. But I will repeat it again in even simpler words if you desire. One thing I do no about having the truth to share is that with each time I am asked to repeat it the holy spirit always adds even more clarity to it. And so the more an opponent makes me have to repeat myself the clearer what God speaks thru me becomes, most usually to my opponent's disappointment when they are not really looking to learn the truth but really only seeking to promote their own. But I am always grateful for the push which resulted in the added clarity, regardless of my opponents disappointment.

 

[Buzz_B]

I am not at all sure how many ages there have been in the past. There could have been countless ages for aught I know. I do know, however, that ages existed before Adam. There was a great age from Adam to the flood and another great age front the flood to the resurrection of Christ. The age of grace or the church age, of which we are now a part, runs from the resurrection to the setting up of the king- The kingdom age, next in order, will last at least one thousand years. Rev. 20:4. Then follows the age of the ages, or the dispensation of the fullness of times. The term age of the ages identifies this age as the greatest of all the ages. No age, not even the kingdom age, can be compared to it. Just as the Song of Solomon is the song of songs, that is, the greatest of all songs, and as the holy of holies is the holiest of all, so the age of the ages is the greatest age of all the ages, far surpassing even the millennial kingdom in its power and glory, its revelation of God, and its wonderful reconciliation and restitution. Men today use such terms as "the greatest day of my life," "our finest hour," or the "day of days." It is in this same sense that our almighty Father speaks of the dispensation of the fullness of times as the age of the ages

Here are a few examples of scriptures that support ages not age or two ages.


1. Unto the age. Mark 3:29.

2. Unto the ages. Luke 1:33. (plural)

3. Unto all the ages. Jude 25. (plural)

4. Unto the age of the age. Heb. 1:8.

5. Unto all the generations of the age of the ages. Eph. 3:21.

6. Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.

7. Unto the day of an age. 2 Pet. 3:18.





Unto the ages of the ages. Rev. 1:6.


What I believe is when we come to the age of ages; then all will be all; but there will always be more. God does not deal with man in eternities; He deals with ages. I believe there are many ages to come; and there have been ages that have ended. Only God can answer how many ages there are; we know in part until that which is perfect has come; that which is part shall be done away with.


I do not believe in rapture; to me this is just another escapism doctrine; yes we will be caught up in the air; but I am not going to literalize this verse (we should do another Forum on this subject). What I do believe is God wants overcomer; not escapist and that is all the so called Rapture accomplishes.


.Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things

OK Harold Camping,

You have paid attention to too many fairy tales and fraudulent writings, no doubt like the book of Enoch. Been there, disproved that, and figure if that is where you are that is where you deserve to be.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

OK Harold Camping,

You have paid attention to too many fairy tales and fraudulent writings, no doubt like the book of Enoch. Been there, disproved that, and figure if that is where you are that is where you deserve to be.

I see only your bias opinion here and no scriptural rebuttal. I gave you a list of ages and you personally attack me? How are scriptures fairy tales especially when you have none in your bias opinion?

 

[Buzz_B]

Let me talk about this tent/tabernacle of David and yes as you mentioned David is the figure of Christ. In the true Christian congregation as described at Hebrews 12:22-24, all are considered to be in that tent of David. And yes the true REMNANT congregation as described at Hebrews 12:22-24. Not all believers for there are some special key points here we need to look at.

Glory
Zion
SaviorS
Art of the Covenant
Melchizedek Priesthood
Hidden Manna

Pro. 25: 2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter

All of these above items and more are relevant to this tent of David.

The Tabernacle of David; here was a small tent where the Ark of God was brought to Mount Zion/Sion; (the natural throne room of David) where the court of David was. All David's government officials from worked and perhaps lived on this mt Zion. This was not Jerusalem or the nation of Israel this was a place of ruler-ship and now it had become the temple of the Ark of the covenant.
Mount Zion was mentioned 152 times in OT; where Sion was mention 7 times in NT; sure this was David’s home Solomon etc; but is also a symbolism.
Zion was the natural home of King David who is a type of Christ in Natural Jerusalem. Mt Zion was the head of natural Kingdom; just as Spiritual Mt Zion is the Spiritual high place of Christ in the book of Revelation. David did not need to go to a priest; let alone a high priest to visit the Ark (or the glory of God) it was in a tent or tabernacle on his back porch at Mt Zion. This is a beautiful type which tells us myriads of what God is tying to tell us in the Spirit of the Word.

David was king; He was God’s anointed King David lived in Jerusalem and Mount Zion (Sion); That is where the earthly anointed King lived and all His court; what a wonderful type of the ruler ship of the spiritual Mount Zion.


When David brought the Ark back to Mount Zion he wore an linen ephod, (In other word’s a priestly garment) David also offered burnt offerings to God as the High priest would on the Feast of Tabernacles. There was no high Priest; once a year at the Feast of Atonement at Zion; but David was an example of both King and Priest in that the Ark was not at Shiloh but Zion. No outer court, no holy place, no Levitical order. It is no wonder the Bible is full of pages written by David because of the influence of God’s Ark at Zion.


2 Samuel 6:14 And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD


Point being God is going to reestablish the Tabernacle of David in a called out people to become kings and priest unto God for the remainder of God’s people he has not called.

In this post you did well. And it is not the lengthy spewing of a flood making it more useful.

I will respond to this post later as I need to take care of other business before pondering it further.

Those floods like as the serpent used at Revelation 12:15 to carry the woman away are the bombarding with so many words that rivers of falsehood begin to overpower truth fro the inexperienced, washing the woman and her truth away and serving no useful purpose but to hide the wisdom which comes through the woman away from those who would otherwise be able to understand her well chosen words. Her words get hidden to the inexperienced amidst the dragons deluge of words.

We do not want to be anything like that in our approach and if we are it is a tell all sign of who is really behind what we say.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

ClementofA.

I will do you the courtesy of beginning a more properly condensed conversation:

What is God's basic plan of salvation? 1 Corinthians 15:22 “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.”

Proper exegesis of that verse allows for it to be stated: “For as all [who are] in Adam die, even so all [who are] in Christ shall be made alive.” And it does not imply what ClementofA misrepresents the Greek “pas” to mean. The Greek “pas” is properly able to be rendered various ways, as it is a very context dependent word insofar as exactly what it implies when used.

The direct rendering in order for 1 Cor 15:22, reads: “AS EVEN FOR IN THE ADAM ALL ARE DYING, THUS ALSO IN THE CHRIST ALL WILL BE MADE ALIVE.”

Now think about that. All Paul said was that “For even as all who are in Adam are dying, so also, even all who are in Christ will be made alive.” It is so simple a grade school child could understand that it does not mean all who die in Adam will be made alive in Christ. Clearly anyone pushing the idea that it does mean that has a biased based agenda. The comparison is straight forward, just as all those who are in Adam ARE DYING, all those who are in Christ WILL BE MADE ALIVE. And it is wrong to stretch that verse beyond that. The Greek grammar does not support going beyond that nor does the meaning of the word, “pas.”

If Paul meant that literally all who die in Adam would be saved in Christ, how would he have worded that in Greek? Instead of using the word, “pas”, he would have used the word, “hekastos”, which is more definite in meaning than is “pas.” This is why in speaking of who are to be judged, Paul uses the word “hekastos” to mean “all” without exception.

I already abolished your incorrect view of Romans 5:12-19.

I am not saying that you accepted it but that your arguments trying to overturn what I said were so obviously failures that you certainly should have accepted it. But I will repeat it again in even simpler words if you desire. One thing I do no about having the truth to share is that with each time I am asked to repeat it the holy spirit always adds even more clarity to it. And so the more an opponent makes me have to repeat myself the clearer what God speaks thru me becomes, most usually to my opponent's disappointment when they are not really looking to learn the truth but really only seeking to promote their own. But I am always grateful for the push which resulted in the added clarity, regardless of my opponents disappointment.

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.

Again I repeat the Greek Word in "en" also means (in with and by) and these words can be interchanged so you “in Christ argument holds no water” the translation could also say “by Christ” or "with Christ" all will be made alive”.

Yes much of First Corinthians 15 is speaking of the why we are believers but they are to keys you are either ignoring or dismissing. First being the (in with, by) we just covered. Second being the last being vs. 23 which declares how the all in Christ will be made alive each and there own order file or rank if you look at the Greek.

This verse is a perfect example of where context should be used. There is a time element and all the words line up and mean the very same thing in context, it is a perfect example for context

In the first part of the verse it reads “22For as in Adam all die”. In (in with and by), (in Adam), (with Adam), (by Adam)… Amen, we all agree all die, some see this as Physical death but it is death period. We are dead creatures every one of us dead, spiritually, dead physically some day if Jesus does not return, we are dead dead in trespasses and sin, death reigns from Adam to Christ.

Then in context the very next phase “so in Christ shall all be made alive” (in with and by), (in Christ), (with Christ), (by Christ)… shall all be made alive.

Then God’s Word not my opinion shows us now… But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Notice how it says firstfruits (plural), The firstfruitsare the very same who will rule and reign with Christ, Some say these people were the early Church, but this is not what a firstfruit is, it is not the beginning of a planting season do we get a firstfruit harvest, it is at the beginning of a harvest, and right after the firstfruit is harvested the whole harvest becomes mature and ready for picking.

Firstfruits another word that should be added to my list pertaining to the Tabernacle of David

 

[Buzz_B]

I see only your bias opinion here and no scriptural rebuttal. I gave you a list of ages and you personally attack me? How are scriptures fairy tales especially when you have none in your bias opinion?

You got it. Keep it.

Harold Camping was the biggest fraud ever to hit radio. I used to always listen to him and was even sucked into much of his nonsense for a while. I figure if you cannot get free of him there is something smelly in Denmark.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

In this post you did well. And it is not the lengthy spewing of a flood making it more useful.

I will respond to this post later as I need to take care of other business before pondering it further.

Those floods like as the serpent used at Revelation 12:15 to carry the woman away are the bombarding with so many words that rivers of falsehood begin to overpower truth fro the inexperienced, washing the woman and her truth away and serving no useful purpose but to hide the wisdom which comes through the woman away from those who would otherwise be able to understand her well chosen words. Her words get hidden to the inexperienced amidst the dragons deluge of words.

We do not want to be anything like that in our approach and if we are it is a tell all sign of who is really behind what we say.

Again you give Satan far to much glory or power. You see this message of Zion is a rock of offense and a stone of stubbling which is the message of Universal salvation