All Israel is saved

[Buzz_B]

1 Corinthians 15:22-24

22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
If God does not call you, you cannot come.

Again I repeat the Greek Word in "en" also means (in with and by) and these words can be interchanged so you “in Christ argument holds no water” the translation could also say “by Christ” or "with Christ" all will be made alive”.

Yes much of First Corinthians 15 is speaking of the why we are believers but they are to keys you are either ignoring or dismissing. First being the (in with, by) we just covered. Second being the last being vs. 23 which declares how the all in Christ will be made alive each and there own order file or rank if you look at the Greek.

This verse is a perfect example of where context should be used. There is a time element and all the words line up and mean the very same thing in context, it is a perfect example for context

In the first part of the verse it reads “22For as in Adam all die”. In (in with and by), (in Adam), (with Adam), (by Adam)… Amen, we all agree all die, some see this as Physical death but it is death period. We are dead creatures every one of us dead, spiritually, dead physically some day if Jesus does not return, we are dead dead in trespasses and sin, death reigns from Adam to Christ.

Then in context the very next phase “so in Christ shall all be made alive” (in with and by), (in Christ), (with Christ), (by Christ)… shall all be made alive.

Then God’s Word not my opinion shows us now… But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Notice how it says firstfruits (plural), The firstfruitsare the very same who will rule and reign with Christ, Some say these people were the early Church, but this is not what a firstfruit is, it is not the beginning of a planting season do we get a firstfruit harvest, it is at the beginning of a harvest, and right after the firstfruit is harvested the whole harvest becomes mature and ready for picking.

Firstfruits another word that should be added to my list pertaining to the Tabernacle of David

You wish that were true, I am sure. But it isn't.

Edit: I mean the part where you are claiming I do not know what the Greek words mean and so you proceed to show me as if I did not already know. That is how a brat child does its parent.

You assume too much about me and you are so busy assuming that you fail to really listen. I have no use for people like that. And I do not mean that to offend you. But it is shear nonsense for you to speak to me like I need you to educate me in the Greek.

 

[Buzz_B]

Again you give Satan far to much glory or power. You see this message of Zion is a rock of offense and a stone of stubbling which is the message of Universal salvation

Are you sure of that?

It seems you have pretty well written your own Bible. You and your crony ClementofA.

I can clearly see where you are wrong but you are beyond my reach insofar as knowing how to help you to see where you are wrong. So I will let you guys have your territory back which you jealously guard by means of floods. I will only speak to other posters when I see someone who might benefit.

You are quite welcome to categorize that any way you wish, claiming I am avoiding you because I have no better answer or however you wish. That is certainly not a thing the evil one would do to make such judgments of the woman, would he? So you must be right. At least you believe you are right. And that is your right to believe.

Good day. I see no point in continuing with you.

Edit: I should add that being as your beliefs and Harold Campings beliefs were so very similar, you may wish to consider that Harold Camping was a proven false prophet. None of his predictions came true and you know what God says about prophets who prophecy falsely. Surely the man had not the spirit of God to have much of anything he believed be correct.

Good day.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You got it. Keep it.

Harold Camping was the biggest fraud ever to hit radio. I used to always listen to him and was even sucked into much of his nonsense for a while. I figure if you cannot get free of him there is something smelly in Denmark.

Who is Harold Camping?

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Are you sure of that?

It seems you have pretty well written your own Bible. You and your crony ClementofA.

I can clearly see where you are wrong but you are beyond my reach insofar as knowing how to help you to see where you are wrong. So I will let you guys have your territory back which you jealously guard by means of floods. I will only speak to other posters when I see someone who might benefit.

You are quite welcome to categorize that any way you wish, claiming I am avoiding you because I have no better answer or however you wish. That is certainly not a thing the evil one would do to make such judgments of the woman, would he? So you must be right. At least you believe you are right. And that is your right to believe.

Good day. I see no point in continuing with you.

Edit: I should add that being as your beliefs and Harold Campings beliefs were so very similar, you may wish to consider that Harold Camping was a proven false prophet. None of his predictions came true and you know what God says about prophets who prophecy falsely. Surely the man had not the spirit of God to have much of anything he believed be correct.

Good day.

No one has written a new Bible. if anything you have selectively ignored Scripture that does not fit your way of seeing things numinous times. I thought you were deep for a moment. My mistake. great debate.

 

[SBC]

No one has written a new Bible. if anything you have selectively ignored Scripture that does not fit your way of seeing things numinous times. I thought you were deep for a moment. My mistake. great debate.

You believe ALL will be saved?

What about those who do not want to be saved?

Are they Forced to be saved?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You believe ALL will be saved?

What about those who do not want to be saved?

Are they Forced to be saved?

God Bless,
SBC

yes in God's timing.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

NO MAN….

The words translated "draw" and "drew" in the Greek New Testament are HELKUO and HELKO. Each of these words has the basic meaning of "compel ... .. draw," "pull," and "tug." In most instances the force which does the drawing or compelling is sufficient to cause the object of the drawing to respond fully. For example, in Jn. 18:10, it is said that "Peter having a sword DREW it..." The impetuous disciple most assuredly did not draw the weapon out of its sheath in a gingerly or wooing fashion. Nor did the sword seek to draw itself out by its own will and good pleasure! Peter didn't merely "invite" the sword to come out, in spite of any resistance the blade may have had as it dragged the leather scabbard, the muscular arm of Peter yanked it forcefully out in obedience to his will.

The Bible declares that God will draw all men unto me. In other words God will draw/drag or force all men unto Him. No freewill or choice when this will happen.

 

[Buzz_B]

You believe ALL will be saved?

What about those who do not want to be saved?

Are they Forced to be saved?

God Bless,
SBC

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In post 206 Soar Like and Eagle fails to see that all are drawn to Christ in the sense that Christ becomes the basis of judgment of all men.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

So all he said about draw or drawing means nothing in support of his point.

He tries so hard he cannot see the mistakes he is making.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In post 206 Soar Like and Eagle fails to see that all are drawn to Christ in the sense that Christ becomes the basis of judgment of all men.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

So all he said about draw or drawing means nothing in support of his point.

He tries so hard he cannot see the mistakes he is making.

I know you hate the fact that Jesus blood is greater than the sin of Adam BUT God's judgement are just and as the verse declares righteous.

My strong contention is that you misunderstands the purpose of God’s judgments, and consequently, misrepresents His character to the world. Rather than viewing all of God’s judgments and punishments from the perspective of the “spiritual man,” Christians have instead interpreted them out of the “natural man”—a man desiring retribution against his enemies.


Most of us have been taught that the “natural man” spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor. 2:14 applies only to unredeemed man, however, Christians are just as capable of thinking and walking in the natural (carnal) realm. One needs only to look at the current state of the church with all of its division and strife to see that this is true. This is why Paul exhorts us to “renew our minds” and to “walk in the Spirit.” It is for this very reason why I believe the Church has embraced the false doctrine of never-ending punishment. The “natural man” simply cannot understand the things of the Spirit, and so it is this same natural man who has ruled over the “new man” and prevented us from seeing the true purpose for God’s judgments.


Many read the Bible and see two contradictory views of God: first, the fiery God of judgment as described in the Old Testament, and second, the Christ of love as demonstrated in the New Testament. Some, confused by this apparent contradiction, reject the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. However, when we study the subject of God’s judgments, we must not take the “hard” passages by themselves, but instead, must study them in the light of God’s enduring love and mercy. Take them alone, and we have a God whose forgiveness and mercy is limited; but take them in light of God’s everlasting love and compassion and we see that there is no contradiction at all—the glove of God’s judgment fits perfectly over His hand of love.


Let me remind you that the word "judgment", or "Krisis" is used in the New Testament to denote the deciding time, trial or probation of man. This passage confirms that "it is appointed unto man once to die and after this probation."

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

In post 206 Soar Like and Eagle fails to see that all are drawn to Christ in the sense that Christ becomes the basis of judgment of all men.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

So all he said about draw or drawing means nothing in support of his point.

He tries so hard he cannot see the mistakes he is making.

Just amazes me all the doom and gloom you believe in and how little you see of God's grace? God is a balanced God not a vengeful monster. Stop looking at what Rome has taught us from the dark ages and start looking at who Jesus is.

 

[Buzz_B]

I know you hate the fact that Jesus blood is greater than the sin of Adam BUT God's judgement are just and as the verse declares righteous.

My strong contention is that you misunderstands the purpose of God’s judgments, and consequently, misrepresents His character to the world. Rather than viewing all of God’s judgments and punishments from the perspective of the “spiritual man,” Christians have instead interpreted them out of the “natural man”—a man desiring retribution against his enemies.


Most of us have been taught that the “natural man” spoken of by Paul in 1 Cor. 2:14 applies only to unredeemed man, however, Christians are just as capable of thinking and walking in the natural (carnal) realm. One needs only to look at the current state of the church with all of its division and strife to see that this is true. This is why Paul exhorts us to “renew our minds” and to “walk in the Spirit.” It is for this very reason why I believe the Church has embraced the false doctrine of never-ending punishment. The “natural man” simply cannot understand the things of the Spirit, and so it is this same natural man who has ruled over the “new man” and prevented us from seeing the true purpose for God’s judgments.


Many read the Bible and see two contradictory views of God: first, the fiery God of judgment as described in the Old Testament, and second, the Christ of love as demonstrated in the New Testament. Some, confused by this apparent contradiction, reject the Bible as the inerrant Word of God. However, when we study the subject of God’s judgments, we must not take the “hard” passages by themselves, but instead, must study them in the light of God’s enduring love and mercy. Take them alone, and we have a God whose forgiveness and mercy is limited; but take them in light of God’s everlasting love and compassion and we see that there is no contradiction at all—the glove of God’s judgment fits perfectly over His hand of love.


Let me remind you that the word "judgment", or "Krisis" is used in the New Testament to denote the deciding time, trial or probation of man. This passage confirms that "it is appointed unto man once to die and after this probation."

You do have much right. Now all you need do is calm yourself down so that you can see what you have wrong. You are like those Jews whom Jesus spoke to and told them they were close but not quite there yet.

Look at my post number 188 in the thread 'Jesus as Michael' to see how quickly I catch, admit, and correct my mistakes when I am wrong and follow my example:

Jesus as Michael

 

[Buzz_B]

Just amazes me all the doom and gloom you believe in and how little you see of God's grace? God is a balanced God not a vengeful monster. Stop looking at what Rome has taught us from the dark ages and start looking at who Jesus is.

You are having to ignore and/or rationalize away more than half the Bible to believe the things you do. I will not do that.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You do have much right. Now all you need do is calm yourself down so that you can see what you have wrong. You are like those Jews whom Jesus spoke to and told them they were close but not quite there yet.

Look at my post number 188 in the thread 'Jesus as Michael' to see how quickly I catch, admit, and correct my mistakes when I am wrong and follow my example:

Jesus as Michael

Calm down. You are funny. Who is wrong? I posted scripture you ignore them. Your view of Jesus is the same as Islams view of Allah. Your going to hell if you do not believe and God is going to torture you forever and ever.

A few hours ago you told us good day and you are back already. I like to debate with you but your feelings get hurt too easy.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

You are having to ignore and/or rationalize away more than half the Bible to believe the things you do. I will not do that.

No way. Spiritualize the letter that killeth. You are killing God's Word with you dead letter.

 

[Buzz_B]

Calm down. You are funny. Who is wrong? I posted scripture you ignore them. Your view of Jesus is the same as Islams view of Allah. Your going to hell if you do not believe and God is going to torture you forever and ever.

A few hours ago you told us good day and you are back already. I like to debate with you but your feelings get hurt too easy.

And you notice I am no longer speaking the Scriptures to you. Just issuing courtesy responses.

 

[Buzz_B]

No way. Spiritualize the letter that killeth. You are killing God's Word with you dead letter.

What letter does kill? Show me the Scripture which says the words of our Bible kills and if it were not for texts like 2 Timothy 3:16 I might think about it.

Until then I recognize that in your anxiousness to defend you are perverting what Paul said about the letter of the Old Law killing.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

What letter does kill? Show me the Scripture which says the words of our Bible kills and if it were not for texts like 2 Timothy 3:16 I might think about it.

Until then I recognize that in your anxiousness to defend you are perverting what Paul said about the letter of the Old Law killing.

I thought you were no longer longer speaking the Scriptures to me?????

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Example I posted this long ago and never got a response.

Matt 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divided his sheep from the goats:

Please some one turn the spiritual light on.

Matt 25:32 and I note; many are assuming a goat is a non believer, all it is your assumption, look at the Greek; I see a goat as an immature believer (baby goat); who are separated because of their spiritual immaturity. Many are mature in their little religious box; but are immature spiritually; they have that immature goat nature.

A goat or the Greek word (eriphos or kid; baby goat) So I see it as God separating his Sheep mature from His immature kids; spiritually speaking)

NT:2056 ἐρίφων eriphōn 2056

a young goat

A goat is also a clean animal, now if you the verse referred to a pig or unclean animal I would agree with the traditional teaching. A pig would be a great example of the unjust/heathen; but a goat was used all though out the OT as a sacrificial animal’ so how can it be the unjust? (scrape goat); and why would God burn up a baby goat in everlasting fire; what did the baby goat do?


Actually nothing; the unqualified and unjust and bias translators obvious made a grave error in the word everlasting and should of translated it ages (NT:166 Aionios). The word means ages; limit duration. The has happen a number of times in scripture and can be easily proven by the context of the verse.



But according to these bias translators God is going to send a baby goat to everlasting fire.


Matt 25:41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels


So many of God’s people are goats and all they eat is garbage; in other words damnable heresies or heresies of damnation/condemnations/ all those heresies that condemn people to torture.


Is not a goat a clean animal; how can a goat be the unsaved; the unsaved are defiled; Jesus was a Jew and knew all the clean and unclean animal. So you are saying we should throw away all the OT types and dismiss them and replace them with bias Christian assumptions?

 

[SBC]

yes in God's timing.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

NO MAN….

The words translated "draw" and "drew" in the Greek New Testament are HELKUO and HELKO. Each of these words has the basic meaning of "compel ... .. draw," "pull," and "tug." In most instances the force which does the drawing or compelling is sufficient to cause the object of the drawing to respond fully. For example, in Jn. 18:10, it is said that "Peter having a sword DREW it..." The impetuous disciple most assuredly did not draw the weapon out of its sheath in a gingerly or wooing fashion. Nor did the sword seek to draw itself out by its own will and good pleasure! Peter didn't merely "invite" the sword to come out, in spite of any resistance the blade may have had as it dragged the leather scabbard, the muscular arm of Peter yanked it forcefully out in obedience to his will.

The Bible declares that God will draw all men unto me. In other words God will draw/drag or force all men unto Him. No freewill or choice when this will happen.

Your quote John 6:44, simply says the drawing unto God, is effected by God.

It says nothing about ALL MEN are drawn unto God.

They aren't, look around you, many Reject God.

They who ARE DRAWN UNTO the Lord, are THEY God KNEW would CHOOSE to stand WITH God.

Jeremiah 1:5
BEFORE I formed thee in the belly "I" KNEW thee...

Matt 20:30
He that is NOT WITH ME, IS AGAINST ME...

God draws unto Him, those WHO ARE already KNOWN to God, WITH Him.

Many are NOT Drawn to God, nor do THEY give their "living body" to Him.

Rom 12:1
....present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable UNTO God...
Which IS your reasonable service.

How do DEAD BODIES, fulfill their reasonable service UNTO God, giving their Living Body Sacrifice to God?

God Bless,
SBC

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

See there is no spin. Its taking the same Word of God and allowing God's Word to answer itself instead of some long dead translator who probably was influenced by Rome and her baby sisters. I am using the Law of Moses as my source for truth not someones assumption or bias.

 

[Soar Like and Eagle]

Your quote John 6:44, simply says the drawing unto God, is effected by God.

It says nothing about ALL MEN are drawn unto God.

They aren't, look around you, many Reject God.

They who ARE DRAWN UNTO the Lord, are THEY God KNEW would CHOOSE to stand WITH God.

Jeremiah 1:5
BEFORE I formed thee in the belly "I" KNEW thee...

Matt 20:30
He that is NOT WITH ME, IS AGAINST ME...

God draws unto Him, those WHO ARE already KNOWN to God, WITH Him.

Many are NOT Drawn to God, nor do THEY give their "living body" to Him.

Rom 12:1
....present your bodies a LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable UNTO God...
Which IS your reasonable service.

How do DEAD BODIES, fulfill their reasonable service UNTO God, giving their Living Body Sacrifice to God?

God Bless,
SBC

No. God is not drawing all men now. he has many ages to do this.



1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.


Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."


1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:

If God does not call you, you cannot come.


"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time. (Ray Prinzing)