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...shear nonsense for you to speak...
That should be sheer, not shear. Unless you are talking about a haircut in your statement above ;
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...shear nonsense for you to speak...
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
In post 206 Soar Like and Eagle fails to see that all are drawn to Christ in the sense that Christ becomes the basis of judgment of all men.
Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
So all he said about draw or drawing means nothing in support of his point.
He tries so hard he cannot see the mistakes he is making.
ALL men WILL BELIEVE.
When Judgement Day arrives, even those in Hell, will SEE the Son appear before them, they will SEE, they will Believe, they will bow on blended knee.
This shall fulfill Prophecy in Isaiah.
However they did not receive Forgiveness or Salvation.
They shall receive what they choose in their Life TO RECEIVE.........separation from God.
God IS Just, ASK, and ye shall receive.
Dead men KNOW nothing. What do dead men ASK for? Nothing.
God Bless,
SBC
Rubbish.
Proverbs 2:11 ; 3:21; 5:2; 8:12 all use the same word in a positive light. And that is just in the Proverbs. The same Hebrew expression is used in many books of the OT with a positive meaning.
I told you to look at the poetic scheme used in verses 14-25 but you evidently prefer not to do that. All of those verses in Proverbs 14 list both a negative and a positive. Verse 17 is out of place the way you claim. But not only that, even the contrast is bad between the two negatives you create. Consider:
Proverbs 14:17a "He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly:" (Not a wicked one but a foolish one)
Proverbs 14:17b "and a man of wicked devices is hated. (there the foolish one is assumed wicked)
There is a huge difference between a mere foolish man and a wicked man in the Scriptures. Wicked are wise in their own conceit as even David describes them in the Psalms.
Proverbs 26:12 "Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."
So before you speak such words to me about others perhaps you should look in the mirror. IOW's are you really not trusting in the translators who are just men, the same as they do?
Rubbish.
Proverbs 2:11 ; 3:21; 5:2; 8:12 all use the same word in a positive light. And that is just in the Proverbs. The same Hebrew expression is used in many books of the OT with a positive meaning.
I told you to look at the poetic scheme used in verses 14-25 but you evidently prefer not to do that. All of those verses in Proverbs 14 list both a negative and a positive. Verse 17 is out of place the way you claim. But not only that, even the contrast is bad between the two negatives you create. Consider:
Proverbs 14:17a "He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly:" (Not a wicked one but a foolish one)
Proverbs 14:17b "and a man of wicked devices is hated. (there the foolish one is assumed wicked)
There is a huge difference between a mere foolish man and a wicked man in the Scriptures. Wicked are wise in their own conceit as even David describes them in the Psalms.
Proverbs 26:12 "Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him."
So before you speak such words to me about others perhaps you should look in the mirror. IOW's are you really not trusting in the translators who are just men, the same as they do?
That is very close but you also are letting yourself get confused a bit by the words "all" and "every."ALL men WILL BELIEVE.
When Judgement Day arrives, even those in Hell, will SEE the Son appear before them, they will SEE, they will Believe, they will bow on blended knee.
This shall fulfill Prophecy in Isaiah.
However they did not receive Forgiveness or Salvation.
They shall receive what they choose in their Life TO RECEIVE.........separation from God.
God IS Just, ASK, and ye shall receive.
Dead men KNOW nothing. What do dead men ASK for? Nothing.
God Bless,
SBC
I see you totally ignored my post on the bay goat??? Couldn't prove it wrong so you move on. I am seeing a pattern here.That is very close but you also are letting yourself get confused a bit by the words "all" and "every."
The following passage highlights the commonly made error of the many:
Philippians 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
They will claim that for this to be fulfilled absolutely each and every person who has ever died must be resurrected.
Now I will pause to let you tell me why that claim does not fly.
All of us have at one time or another committed foolish actions so if one cannot commit a foolish action without being considered wicked then we are all wicked. And I think you know better than that.buzzb,
1. I looked at the passage first and made up my mind first before going to translators and they said the same basic thing I did.
So I guess I influenced them without them knowing it or else great minds think alike.
buzzb,
1. I looked at the scripture myself and so I wasn’t looking to the translators even though they agreed with me. I did say it was off the top of my head.
2. I don’t disagree with the positive light of encouragement but at the same it can be said to believes and non believers when it comes to wisdom and folly.
3. It is poetic form but the scheme is wisdom over folly whether to the context of believers or not.
There are some specific to believers and others maybe not.
4. Wicked vs. Foolish
I understand that as a believer the nature is different so one can commit a foolish action and not be considered wicked.
A man of wicked devices is hated.
Wicked devices are premeditated scheming who are hated.
Wicked are wise in their conceits.
5. Proverbs 26:12; I was not trying to force you to believe what I said or because I said it.
If your point is that it is written to an unbeliever fine. I think it can go both with a believer or an unbeliever.
Maybe you need to make that a little bit clearer.
5. As far as other subjects I have had with others such as KoH and the KoG, 1 Corinthians 15:31 and thingsabout law and grace and prophetical things I know much better because I have studied them out. It doesn’t mean because I haven’t studied one out I don’t have any understanding on what I say I do. I use scripture and the context and reconcile it with other scriptures.
Rubbish? Is that self control or just your normal self? Lol Jerry kelso
Why notice the word unjust? You did not care to listen the many times I explained it to you before. LOLThey will be in God's timing
Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
Resurrection means to rise; notice the word unjust.
"Every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." When? When every heart is made willing! There is no connotation or undertone here of God forcing these to just mouth words. Instead there is the implication that it is done in a heartfelt, even worshipful attitude. They have been made willing. Many eternalists like to say that this verse simply means that God will force these knees to bow and these tongues to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Now these are the same people who say that because man has a "free will" God will not force him to accept Jesus Christ. But here they have God forcing men to worship Him . . . to the glory of God? "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high one that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited" --Isaiah 24:21,22.
You are the one ignoring post baby goat.Why notice the word unjust? You did not care to listen the many times I explained it to you before. LOL
No. God is not drawing all men now.
he has many ages to do this.
Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and TO ALL THAT ARE AFAR OFF, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."
1 Corinthians 15:22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(order) Gk Strong’s NT:5001 tagma (tag'-mah); from NT:5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), i.e. (figuratively) a series or succession:
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits;
afterward they that are Christ's at His coming."
(I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man--
whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time. (Ray Prinzing)
God draws men alive in the mans LIFE span.
True NOT ALL MEN ARE DRAWN.
Those who ARE drawn during their own LIFE span, are they who are becoming ONE BODY of Christ's Church, that is being enlarged in membership daily.
Of course the EVERLASTING God has many ages to effect drawing His People to Him....the Individual People simply have a limited number of years to choose to give their Living Body to God.
[QUOTe}1 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Soar Like and Eagle said:Carnal man cannot choose God he is carnal. Its carnal mans nature to reject God because he is dead in trustpasses and sin and until God calls/draws/drags him he simply cannot come because he is carnal and dead to the realm of God. it is his nature to reject God because we are all dead in trespasses and sins because of Adam sin.
It is more than carnal and yes there are a lot of senior so called believers who are very carnal. it is actually dead. Dead spiritually or dead in trustpasses and sins. When Adam dies we all died to the realm of God. A physical dead man cannot see, hear, smell, touch etc because they are dead in trespasser and sins.Speaking to those who professed faith in Christ but yet were having difficulty due to yet being carnal:
1 Corinthians 3:3 "For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?"
So it would be better to say that one can consciously and verbally choose Christ but that merely confessing faith in Christ with ones lips does not make one able to actually benefit from Christ. For the carnal mind does indeed remain at enmity with God not because a man does not want to come to God but because being carnal he does not know how to free himself to do so.
All babes in Christ are yet carnal to some degree. And being yet carnal to some degree they are in a process of being transformed from that carnal minded state to the spiritual minded state.
It is not black and white in the beginning. That transformation does not happen for most immediately.
You say the simplest stuff to see accurately. But you call me the goat for being too stubborn to see what is so elementary to me that I cannot help but see it.It is more than carnal and yes there are a lot of senior so called believers who are very carnal. it is actually dead. Dead spiritually or dead in trustpasses and sins. When Adam dies we all died to the realm of God. A physical dead man cannot see, hear, smell, touch etc because they are dead in trespasser and sins.
Eph 2:1-8 gives a clear view in context how the salvation process is accomplished in carnal man. God’s Spirit has to quicken us out of our dead spiritual state.
"QUICK ."Quick means living and active — LIFE-GIVING! making it active, operative, energizing and effective, notice the context of Ephesians which shows us step by step how the salvation process works.
Eph, 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast
I don't care if there is a hundred judgement's. God's judgement's are just so what is your point. Every time someone throws something at you you cannot answer because we are right and you know we are right because you final see the truth. You ignore the question. But than you demand we answer your questions and we always do. That is why you are a goat. Other than that I love debating you.You say the simplest stuff to see accurately. But you call me the goat for being too stubborn to see what is so elementary to me that I cannot help but see it.
A while back I acquainted you with the Greek word katakrino which means literal "judged down" as in a definite negative verdict. I point out text which clearly indicate some have already received that katakrino but you insist God must judge them a second time. (Though because you fail to listen you may not realize you are claiming they get a second judgment)
These facts are so simple that you could check them for yourself but you would rather argue a dead horse and then you call me the goat when your argument is so simple for me to see that I could well argue it for you, perhaps even better. But you refuse to really look at things like that word katakrino and the various texts which use that word so as to know you are claiming that some get two judgments.
LOL, at least you make me laugh.
In your post 208, you said, quote, "“Let me remind you that the word "judgment", or "Krisis" is used in the New Testament to denote the deciding time, trial or probation of man. This passage confirms that "it is appointed unto man once to die and after this probation." UnquoteI don't care if there is a hundred judgement's. God's judgement's are just so what is your point. Every time someone throws something at you you cannot answer because we are right and you know we are right because you final see the truth. You ignore the question. But than you demand we answer your questions and we always do. That is why you are a goat. Other than that I love debating you.