After School Satan

samir

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But if non Christians are not afforded the same legal protections as Christians, how is that NOT persecution?

I don't have a problem with persecuting non-Christians when it is in accordance with God's will and helps them and their neighbors. My primary concern with everything is doing God's will and loving our neighbors.

I actually agree with this, but in a very different way. I don't think freedom of speech is necessarily a good thing; I don't think free access to guns is a good thing either.

You can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater but you can preach a message of hate that encourages people to kill their neighbors. I don't think that's right. Stopping that preacher by fines, shutting down his church, or jail time is persecution and I support it because I love my neighbors.
 
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samir

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It goes too far for me, because often times it dips into tyrannical policies. I think instead we should encourage people in the Muslim community to snitch out hateful imans.

What do you think should be done with those hateful imans if they aren't willing to change?
 
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samir

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That solution of persecuting Muslims does nothing, but bring misery to others.

Allowing hateful imams to spread a message of hate and violence unimpeded does nothing but bring misery to all their victims and the families of those killed by people inspired by the imams hateful message.
 
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rambot

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I'm not saying non-Christians should be persecuted solely for not being Christian.
i don't see how these two sentences can coexist

I don't have a problem with persecuting non-Christians when it is in accordance with God's will and helps them and their neighbors. My primary concern with everything is doing God's will and loving our neighbors.



You can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater but you can preach a message of hate that encourages people to kill their neighbors. I don't think that's right.
So first, you are levelling completely baseless accusations against thousands of individuals and you are using this slander as a basis for taking away legal rights. Legally, that's not right. I don't think lying about someone, even some one of a different faith is showing love


Stopping that preacher by fines, shutting down his church, or jail time is persecution and I support it because I love my neighbors.
and if you elect a president who persecuted Muslims, you would love that right? But if he persecuted Hindus or Jews, that would be bad. I mean your starting with a false premise

Allowing hateful imams to spread a message of hate and violence unimpeded does nothing but bring misery to all their victims and the families of those killed by people inspired by the imams hateful message.
if you're going to be talking about hateful imams like they actually exist, might I ask to provide data to support that they are real? Cause you may be calling for major constitutional compromise for a figment of your imagination.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Religions are not equal. God's religion should be protected. False religions are at enmity with God and don't deserve the same rights.
According to many religion. Their religions the only true religion. And Christian or any others religion cant be proven. So you either allow all or none. I prefer none.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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During the Middle Ages in Europe, most people were Christian and had morals because the government helped keep them on the straight and narrow path.
Just because people are forced to do what the government wants. Doesn't mean they believe in God. Or they do everything the bible or what government tells them. If that was the case,we would have never had gays hiding in the closet. People would just do things and keep them hidden. Or get in big trouble over stupid stuff that should be legal.
 
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timewerx

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When I was in elementary school, evil Halloween parties were renamed Harvest Festivals and the good Christmas parties, Valentines parties and Easter parties were still called by their Religious names. Of course they are renamed not to more PC alternatives, the Christmas tree and presents are still exchanged at school, valentines and candy happen in February, egg dying, jelly beans, baskets, bunny and chick cut outs are on the walls, along with “Happy Easter”, but we call it a “spring time” party.

There is nothing Christian about those things. They were pagan in origins, just relabeled....

Frankly, I don't care how they name it.
 
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Oafman

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Allowing hateful imams to spread a message of hate and violence unimpeded
American imams have a constitutional right to spread a message of hate. If they spill over into inciting violence, then I assume they have broken a law, and can be prosecuted.
 
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Moral Orel

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American imams have a constitutional right to spread a message of hate. If they spill over into inciting violence, then I assume they have broken a law, and can be prosecuted.
Kind of the same way we let "Christian" groups like the KKK spread their message of hate until they start talking about burning crosses on people's lawns.
KKK sez they Christians
But @samir wants to not persecute "Christian" groups like the KKK, only Muslim groups, so this would still be okay. Unless of course he thinks we ought to determine exactly what constitutes a Christian and what can be preached as doctrine in a court of law...
 
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dzheremi

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I can't find a link right now because I don't have time, but I remember a few years ago there was a case in the UK where a Coptic (Egyptian) Christian lady was working for an airline and was told by her employer that she was not allowed to wear a small cross on her person at work (I can't remember if it was a necklace or a pin, but either way it was unobtrusive and there was no safety reason for denying it). She brought suit against her employer for what she claimed was a violation of her right to publicly identify with her religion, and noted that the same airline allowed its female Muslim employees to wear their Islamic headcoverings on the job, so it's very unfair that they deny her the right to wear a small cross. She ended up losing her case when the court decided that wearing a cross could not be proven to be 'intrinsic' to being a Christian, so it was not interfering with her religion in the same way that telling a female Muslim employee that they could not wear their hijab at work would be.

To me, this kind of ruling is far more terrifying than some Satanist group talking about offering an after school program. The Satanist group, as in all cases when these groups have made the news lately (e.g., that statue in Detroit or wherever it was), is trying to make a point about freedom of religion and separation of church and state in America. The judges in the UK, however, are deciding what makes someone a practitioner of a particular religion. It makes me very glad that I live in America and not in the UK, and that we have a first amendment that says that congress cannot make laws concerning the practice of any faith in this country. It is none of the government's business should someone want to wear a cross, nor should it be any of their business should a parent want to enroll their kid in a Satanist after school program. Now, personally, I think the Satanist after school program is a terrible idea, as I am against the further mainstreaming of Satan, but I can still recognize the higher point of this announcement. And as an American I am kinda forced to say "Well, I don't like that you're doing that, but it's your right to do things I don't like so long as I am not compelled to do them, too, and so long as I am allowed to speak out against them for whatever reason(s) I have for thinking them to be bad." Because that's how we are to work as a society: Your neighbor may have wildly different views than you do, but so long as they are not physically harming or threatening you, and so long as you both equally have the right to argue against one another's ways of life, then there's really no reason not to let them do as they wish. Or, rather, there is a reason, but it is rooted in something other than the laws of the United States, which are purposely secular so as to avoid situations like the one I described in the UK where the government is ruling on who can be what or who can do what based on their religious beliefs.
 
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samir

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According to many religion. Their religions the only true religion. And Christian or any others religion cant be proven.

It doesn't matter how many claim to be true. If two religions contradict each other, only one can be teaching the truth. If doesn't matter whether it can be proven, it only matters if it is the truth.

So you either allow all or none. I prefer none.

So the religion that God revealed shouldn't be given special treatment and protected? I don't think God would agree with that and what he says is all that matters to me.
 
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samir

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Just because people are forced to do what the government wants. Doesn't mean they believe in God. Or they do everything the bible or what government tells them. If that was the case,we would have never had gays hiding in the closet. People would just do things and keep them hidden. Or get in big trouble over stupid stuff that should be legal.

Illogical. Strawman.
 
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samir

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American imams have a constitutional right to spread a message of hate. If they spill over into inciting violence, then I assume they have broken a law, and can be prosecuted.

What about Christians quoting the bible? If a pastor quotes Leviticus that says a man who lies with another man should be put to death and someone who hears it beats a gay person to death should the pastor be prosecuted? Legally he can't. So if a hateful imam preached that Christians and Westerners are infidels hated by God and a member kills a bunch of Christians after hearing that the imam can't be touched.
 
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samir

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Kind of the same way we let "Christian" groups like the KKK spread their message of hate until they start talking about burning crosses on people's lawns.
KKK sez they Christians
But @samir wants to not persecute "Christian" groups like the KKK, only Muslim groups, so this would still be okay. Unless of course he thinks we ought to determine exactly what constitutes a Christian and what can be preached as doctrine in a court of law...

That's NOT what I said. What I said is it's better to limit free speech that harms others than allow free speech without limits.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I don't have a problem with persecuting non-Christians when it is in accordance with God's will and helps them and their neighbors. My primary concern with everything is doing God's will and loving our neighbors.

You do know that non-Christians are neighbors too right? Or do you live in an alternate reality to the one the rest of us live in. In which case, what's it like? Did the Axis powers win the war in your timeline? And if they did, that might explain a few things about your posts.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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There is nothing Christian about those things. They were pagan in origins, just relabeled....

Frankly, I don't care how they name it.

Well, yes, Harvest Festivals are pagan in origin.

Hallowe'en, on the other hand, is a thoroughly Christian observance with thoroughly Christian origins. As it turns out no pagan religion has ever celebrated the lives and deeds of Christian saints. Shocking, I know.

Which makes the whole calling Hallowe'en a "Harvest Festival" in order to avoid "icky paganism" pretty ironic.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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