Actually Assessing the Debate

[KCfromNC]

Trump gets things done that help us. Biden has done nothing to help us in his 47 years in government that record speaks for its self.

Donald disagrees - note his excuse about his tax fraud investigation is that he was just following Biden's tax law.

Come on, let's at least stick to what the candidates actually said in the debate.

 

[KCfromNC]

Other than health care, fixing the economy from the Bush Recession, taking out Bin Laden, and creating jobs, what has Biden done for us?

There was also the fact that SARS didn't kill hundreds of thousands of Americans and shut down the economy. Donald's response to covid looks particularly bad by comparison. Which makes it weird Donald invited the comparison during the debate.

 

[KCfromNC]

They said Hilary would win a landslide, so what's your point? We should trust the data or the polls?

Yes, but first we should understand what they actually said rather than make misleading claims about them based on far-right memes.

 

[paul1149]

Joe's stance on Trump's covid response

"This is Trump's recession, and I would lockdown the country even longer..."

The debate was disgraceful, and a missed opportunity by Trump to rise above brawling and show a spirit of excellence. Still, I think he won on points. I watched only the first half of the debate.

 

[FireDragon76]

Donald disagrees - note his excuse about his tax fraud investigation is that he was just following Biden's tax law.

Hence why I pointed out Trump's frequent tendency to resort to fallacies of relevance. He's trying to change the subject and trying to obfuscate the point at hand.

 

[cow451]

I met someone today that told me that Trump hadn't prepared for the debate. It showed. All he had was his usual rhetoric.

Trump doesn't prepare because he cannot focus and cannot be taught (due to his narcissism).

The moderator needs a mute button. This was not a debate but an argument.

 

[Skreeper]

Again, I don't want to be hypocritically preached to about rules or codes of conduct from people who support those opposing Trump. They make their own rules, and then do not even follow them themselves.

Right, so your stance is that your side can act like a-holes because the other side does it too?

Don't you think we should strive to be better than that? Shouldn't the President have the skill to at least have polite conversations with people?

A debate with two people yelling over each other with no moderation will get us nowhere.

 

[Kentonio]

But that's the point right. He wants to bring it back to it's former self as in MAGA? And why shouldn't his strong assertion that America can do this be looked upon as showing positive leadership?

Because it’s a fantasy. The United States came out of WW2 in a literally unprecedented position. The world was in ruins, the Great Powers were shattered, and only the US had the industrial base and economic strength to dominate. Meanwhile it’s control and intelligent decisions to rebuild Germany and Japan ensured that it retained its world leading role for a significantly long time. That situation allowed them to become the world’s superpower, but it was always going to be time limited.

The situation could never continue long term in a world where the other large countries were redeveloping their own economic strength and power. The challenge for America was to position itself in a place where their more than half century of advantage was leveraged to keep them in pole position in a quickly changing world. Objectively that challenge was failed. As with all previous great powers the US forgot that being at the front means you have to work harder than ever to stay there.

Those wishing for a return to a previous time of dominance are misunderstanding the dynamics in play. There is no way to turn back the clock, and there was never a way to pause time. To stay ahead the US needs to modernize and innovate and adapt to a world where having the biggest military doesn’t mean you can order everyone around and expect the best treatment ‘just because’.

Isolationism and ‘America First’ is quite simply the quickest way to slide into irrelevance.

 

[LostMarbels]

Right, so your stance is that your side can act like a-holes because the other side does it too?

Don't you think we should strive to be better than that? Shouldn't the President have the skill to at least have polite conversations with people?

A debate with two people yelling over each other with no moderation will get us nowhere.

I'm just not going to hold to a standard that is only going to be utilized to my on detriment. Sometimes you just have to fight back. I don't even like it or enjoy this point in my life. I honestly hope it gets better. It just never stop. Every single minute, and by the minute there is yet another attack. But Im supposed to show restraint or be civil? Why? To buy others time without being confronted? Nah. I'm going to give as good as I get. I want my President to fight just as hard.

 

[JohnDB]

Trump scored heavily with:
Joe not wanting to shut the borders initially
Lack of police department support
Lack of calling on mayors (Chris actually scored that one)
Joe wanting to shut down the nation
Keeping taxes low when Joe wants to raise them
Hunter Biden taking money from Russia while Joe was in office (cocaine addiction too)
Joe not remembering his college's name.

Joe scored with
Election results
Partial points for Paris Accords by claiming that we at least need to talk about this instead of just pulling out.
Trump also scored points on claims that CAFE standards make cars too expensive to purchase and increase the number of old vehicles on the road.

Neither side had anything on healthcare...Joe had an emotional plea but nothing understandable to back it up with.

 

[Fantine]

Rachel Maddow described Trump as an abuser who abused the moderator and his debate opponent.

What I saw was the character of the two candidates. Biden was advised to be authentic and not allow himself get angry, and I think he succeeded. He was the only one who spoke directly to the American people. He was candid. He was compassionate. When he wasn't outshouted and interrupted he talked about his plans. He expressed a little anger and incredulity, but given Trump's behavior he acted with almost superhuman restraint.

Trump's character was on full ugly raging psychotic display. He respects no one--not the moderator, not his opponent, not the audience. If he thinks that the Supreme Court will install him as the next president because he rants, raves, and sues, I think he will be sadly mistaken. Sotomayor, Kagin, and Breyer won't support him, and of the (potentially) six Republican-appointed judges, I think that Gorsuch, Barrett, and Roberts have sufficient character to honor the election results.

I can't imagine any voters who are uncomfortable voting for Biden not running to research third party candidates--because Trump is clearly not a viable choice. I am even more concerned about the havoc and destruction he will try to wreak over the next few months.

 

[wing2000]

If he thinks that the Supreme Court will install him as the next president because he rants, raves, and sues, I think he will be sadly mistaken. Sotomayor, Kagin, and Breyer won't support him, and of the (potentially) six Republican-appointed judges, I think that Gorsuch, Barrett, and Roberts have sufficient character to honor the election results.

....he said he was "counting" on the USSC to "look at the ballots"

CHRIS WALLACE: You're going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it's rigged [crosstalk], that it's going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that year, cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. I think I'm counting on them to look at the ballots, definitely. I hope we don't need them, in terms of the election itself. But for the ballots, I think so, because what's happening is incredible. I read today where at least 1% of the ballots for 2016 were invalidated. They take them. We don't like them. We don't like them. They throw them out-

 

[LostMarbels]

....he said he was "counting" on the USSC to "look at the ballots"

CHRIS WALLACE: You're going to be able to continue. You have been charging for months that mail-in balloting is going to be a disaster. You say it's rigged [crosstalk], that it's going to lead to fraud. But in 2018, in the last midterm election, 31 million people voted mail-in voting. That was more than a quarter of all the voters that year, cast their ballots by mail. Now that millions of mail-in ballots have gone out, what are you going to do about it? And are you counting on the Supreme Court, including a Justice Barrett, to settle any dispute?

DONALD TRUMP: Yeah. I think I'm counting on them to look at the ballots, definitely. I hope we don't need them, in terms of the election itself. But for the ballots, I think so, because what's happening is incredible. I read today where at least 1% of the ballots for 2016 were invalidated. They take them. We don't like them. We don't like them. They throw them out-

28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections | RealClearPolitics!

That's 7,075,000 an election cycle.

 

[NxNW]

What??? Biden did that? I think when you follow up with some study you'd discover Biden did no such thing.

As Vice President during the raid, he certainly gets credit for being in the administration that made it happen. You can even see him in the Situation Room photo.
Situation Room (photograph) - Wikipedia

 

[MIDutch]

I can tell who won by the fact that even the Trump supporters openly und unanimously say that their guy looked bad. I think that's a first on this forum.

Well, it's not quite unanimous. There are a few posters here who think trump was like a debating god last night.

 

[NxNW]

I thought that was THE major point that was important. Biden did little while he was in office for 47 years. That should have ramifications.

Other than health care, saving the economy from the Bush Recession, taking out Bin Laden, and saving us from SARS.

 

[Nithavela]

Well, it's not quite unanimous. There are a few posters here who think trump was like a debating god last night.

Nothing the ignore function can't fix.

 

[NxNW]

Trump scored heavily with:
Keeping taxes low when Joe wants to raise them

Raise taxes on who?

Keeping taxes lower than what?

 

[Bobber]

As Vice President during the raid, he certainly gets credit for being in the administration that made it happen. You can even see him in the Situation Room photo.
Situation Room (photograph) - Wikipedia

I know that but the truth is he still was against it. If he had his way being the Commander In Chief what needed to have happened wouldn't have. So what could that say about his future decisions making if he were President? That's not a valid question to ask?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Anyone here for Biden will say Biden did better, and vice versa.

I'm going with vice versa.