Actually Assessing the Debate

[NxNW]

I know that but the truth is he still was against it. If he had his way being the Commander In Chief what needed to have happened wouldn't have. So what could that say about his future decisions making if he were President? That's not a valid question to ask?

The question wasn't about his future decisions; it was about his past accomplishments, which I listed.

 

[Sparagmos]

28 Million Mail-In Ballots Went Missing in Last Four Elections | RealClearPolitics!

That's 7,075,000 an election cycle.

You’re falling for propaganda. Those are simply people who didn’t vote, meaning they were mailed ballots, and the ballots weren’t returned. There is nothing amiss, anymore so than when registered voters don’t show up at the polls.

 

[Sparagmos]

Sotomayor, Kagin, and Breyer won't support him, and of the (potentially) six Republican-appointed judges, I think that Gorsuch, Barrett, and Roberts have sufficient character to honor the election results.

Yes, Trump thinks that conservative judges will automatically side with him. That’s ridiculous and just a symptom of his Narcissism. Mitch McConnell et al may carry his water but the Supreme Court has no need to.

 

[Bobber]

Biden was advised to be authentic and not allow himself get angry, and I think he succeeded.

And you know others have a different opinion than that.

He was the only one who spoke directly to the American people.

I'll give you he sought at times to look into the camera and talk to the American people. His debate advisors served him well to encourage that. The real question is does his message REALLY resonate with the American people. Not convinced it does.

When he wasn't outshouted and interrupted he talked about his plans.

Not true. He expressed insults to Trump. He didn't JUST talk about his plans. At least be fair and acknowledge that he did that.

Trump's character was on full ugly raging psychotic display.

I think rather he just wasn't going to allow himself to be steamrolled. Didn't like his interrupting but then Joe did that in a measure too. Mostly it was a wash.

If he thinks that the Supreme Court will install him as the next president because he rants, raves, and sues, I think he will be sadly mistaken.

So you think the Supreme Court has a right to make a legal decision based on one individual not maybe using diplomacy in speech? What the American people have decided isn't the determining factor?

I am even more concerned about the havoc and destruction he will try to wreak over the next few months.

Isn't it funny though how nearly ALL Police Unions feel Trump is the best option to not see that happen?

 

[Bobber]

The question wasn't about his future decisions; it was about his past accomplishments, which I listed.

Agreed but your claim is Biden has a place to claim the taking down of Bin Laden was his accomplishment. By so doing you're insinuating he has a track record of being on the right side of things thus a good pick for the future. History is clear on this. Biden was opposed to it.

 

[lasthero]

I know that but the truth is he still was against it. If he had his way being the Commander In Chief what needed to have happened wouldn't have.

That’s a bit of supposition. Biden wasn’t against going after Osama, he just wanted to get some more confirmation before they made the move, to wait a week. There’s no way to know whether or not that confirmation would’ve made any difference - as I recall, Osama had been at that location for a while at that point.

 

[Fantine]

Bobber, now that Trump has called for the racist, alt-right hate group Proud Boys to "stand by" for him, he has absolutely no claim to being the law and order president.

Supporting law and order means holding the Proud Boys and other militia groups accountable for their acts, and holding Kyle Rittenhouse responsible for two murders and one assault is a good beginning.

National Firefighters and First Responders organizations are supporting Biden. I see police departments across the country as needing reform--and many of the rank and file resisting reform. I am fortunate that my local police department is looking at this as an opportunity to build bridges in the community, because a police force that is respected is more effective.

I did find it interesting when Biden said that despite Trump's garbled, incoherent rhetoric Trump had decreased financial support for the police by $400 million.

 

[KCfromNC]

As Vice President during the raid, he certainly gets credit for being in the administration that made it happen. You can even see him in the Situation Room photo.
Situation Room (photograph) - Wikipedia

I think Biden only gets "credit" for things that happened while he was VP that are bad - notice for example Donald trotting out claims about tax policy and SARS. No, it isn't even a slightly consistent. But that shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[samiam]

They said Hilary would win a landslide, so what's your point? We should trust the data or the polls?

Yes.

As of today, if we take all of the polls, adjust them to have 2016’s error (and, as I said in my previous reply to this posting, there’s really good reason to think the polls are more accurate this time around, since we have far fewer undecided voters), Biden still wins with 280 electoral votes (he picks up Pennsylvania, Michigan which was very close for Trump, and Arizona compared to 2016).

Source: The Upshot on Today’s Polls “For the first time since we started our poll tracker several weeks ago, Joe Biden leads by enough to withstand a repeat of the polling error in 2016.”

 

[Kentonio]

Isn't it funny though how nearly ALL Police Unions feel Trump is the best option to not see that happen?

Police unions have a horrible track record and their focus is not on ensuring the best practices of law enforcement, their only mission is protecting their members.

There’s one prominent police union for instance that is headed up by a long time cop who has a long record of abuse of power charges and who has used the union to try and resist any reform of the police department in his city. He’s battled against a string of police chiefs and mayors to try and prevent body cams, prevent sensitivity training and anything else that could actually improve the service police give the the public and to avoid any excesses or abuses of power.

People like that supporting Trump doesn’t make him a law and order president unless you believe law and order can be imposed by giving the police free rein to do as they please.

 

[JohnDB]

Police unions have a horrible track record and their focus is not on ensuring the best practices of law enforcement, their only mission is protecting their members.

There’s one prominent police union for instance that is headed up by a long time cop who has a long record of abuse of power charges and who has used the union to try and resist any reform of the police department in his city. He’s battled against a string of police chiefs and mayors to try and prevent body cams, prevent sensitivity training and anything else that could actually improve the service police give the the public and to avoid any excesses or abuses of power.

People like that supporting Trump doesn’t make him a law and order president unless you believe law and order can be imposed by giving the police free rein to do as they please.

Just about everyone who isn't a criminal has a positive relationship with police officers...they go to church with us...they are our neighbors. They come over for barbeque...

We see the lack of support for Biden by them as "something is wrong".

 

[MIDutch]

Just about everyone who isn't a criminal has a positive relationship with police officers...they go to church with us...they are our neighbors. They come over for barbeque...

We see the lack of support for Biden by them as "something is wrong".

Biden doesn't have the support of the neo-nazis and KKK either, so must be doubly convincing for you.

 

[Kentonio]

Just about everyone who isn't a criminal has a positive relationship with police officers...they go to church with us...they are our neighbors. They come over for barbeque...

We see the lack of support for Biden by them as "something is wrong".

Give me just one reason why a police officer would resist the introduction of body cameras.

 

[JohnDB]

Give me just one reason why a police officer would resist the introduction of body cameras.

And this is relevant because?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Biden doesn't have the support of the neo-nazis and KKK either, so must be doubly convincing for you.

Biden must be a terrible pick if the Nazi's won't support him.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

Trump gets things done that help us. Biden has done nothing to help us in his 47 years in government that record speaks for its self. Just ask a vet or someone that lost a job to China. Trump is on a mission to make America great again and the democrats are not.

I hear this 47 year career line often and I’m always left wondering just what do people think one single senator could have done to fix any of the problems this country has faced or ignored over the past 50 years. What specific power or control does any one senator have over the entire country’s problems? Or a Vice President for that matter? How many problems in our country has Mike Pence singlehandedly solved for us in his time as VP?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Just about everyone who isn't a criminal has a positive relationship with police officers...they go to church with us...they are our neighbors. They come over for barbeque...

We see the lack of support for Biden by them as "something is wrong".

I'm not a criminal and I have a pretty neutral relationship with cops. The commander of our police district is a great guy who tries very, very hard to develop relationships with the community, but even he can't counteract all of the forces at work leading to tensions between the police and the community (e.g. why does the PBA hall in his district get 24/7 police protection against a handful of protesters when there aren't enough officers to handle all the other work?) Closer to home, there are a couple of rural cops in my mom's family who used to throw big July 4 parties that included a lot of fireworks that were very illegal for NY state, but that didn't matter when you had half the sheriff's department and most of the volunteer FD in attendance. As a kid, I thought it was great; as an adult, I can appreciate some of the problems with that double standard. I briefly had a retired cop as a roommate; the very first time I met him, he told me about how he used to beat the steroid urinalysis tests given out by the PD.

I'm a professional and while I'm not in a union, there are a handful of groups that serve some of the functions of a union by advocating, in one fashion or another, for the people who do what I do, trying to make our work more respected, more appreciated, and more valued by the rest of the industry. If those advocacy groups took the antagonistic, supremacist stance that I've seen from a *ton* of police org's, I would be absolutely mortified. I would actively work to disassociate myself from those groups and their leadership because I don't want to be perceived in the way that these police groups present themselves. They act like pigs and defend the absolute worst of police behavior, abuse, and corruption. If that's the kind of leadership that you, as a "professional" choose to represent you, then there is something wrong with you and how you choose to do your job. And while you may show up to church or a barbecue and be perfectly civil, if that's the kind of representation you choose for yourself, then I will trust you less.

 

[Kentonio]

And this is relevant because?

Because numerous police unions oppose body cameras. If all police are wonderful decent people and police unions endorsements are golden, then tell me why they oppose a piece of technology that has no apparent downside to a decent good cop?

 

[Jamsie]

This thread is about assessing the actual Biden-Trump debate. I'd like it to go beyond mere surface reasoning who looked calm, who looked in control who this or that.

A Friend offered this:

"I suppose I’ve become weak: it makes no sense I, or anyone else, should have to explain what a presidential candidate means when he speaks. Perhaps I fall prey to a conceit: my own strange conviction I possess a semblance of linguistic proficiency. Neither candidate impresses. I am appalled, really, by the slovenliness of speech, thought, manner. Of course I know the serpent is eloquent. I also know that exquisite use of language, the courtesy of clarity, is requisite for loving one’s neighbor. Our shared humanity dies with each abuse of word and phrase, either by sentences meant to deceive or words chosen carelessly. Language is a gift not lightly given."

 

[JohnDB]

Because numerous police unions oppose body cameras. If all police are wonderful decent people and police unions endorsements are golden, then tell me why they oppose a piece of technology that has no apparent downside to a decent good cop?

Citations please