Actual statements by synergists

[Hammster]

Why would it "appear" they aren't saved?

Because unsaved people are useless and unfruitful.

No, but many sure do. He was not talking about getting into heaven, but receiving an entrance "richly supplied" to those who don't stumble.

Glad I could help you get it sorted out.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Because unsaved people are useless and unfruitful.

Aren't some believers also?

 

[Hammster]

Aren't some believers also?

Sure. That's why Peter says to make your calling and election sure. He wants you to avoid that.

 

[Skala]

Sure. That's why Peter says to make your calling and election sure. He wants you to avoid that.

Of course, one needs to believe in a doctrine of election to begin with, before Peter's admonition can apply to you.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Of course, one needs to believe in a doctrine of election to begin with, before Peter's admonition can apply to you.

Right. But they need to believe in the correct doctrine of election.

 

[Skala]

Right. But they need to believe in the correct doctrine of election.

Which is....?

 

[konroh]

That God chooses us, and we also choose Him. They aren't mutually exclusive nor do they contradict. God has irresistible grace on the willing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Which is....?

The correct doctrine of election is that God chooses people and groups for special privilege and service, not for salvation.

This is proven by the fact that Jesus was called The Chosen One. That angels are described as elected (we have no information as to whether or not any angels were "saved"), the entire OT nation of Israel, among whom were many many unbelievers, and good old Judas, one of the chosen (Jn 6:70).

Thanks for asking.

 

[Skala]

The correct doctrine of election is that God chooses people and groups for special privilege and service, not for salvation.

This is proven by the fact that Jesus was called The Chosen One. That angels are described as elected (we have no information as to whether or not any angels were "saved"), the entire OT nation of Israel, among whom were many many unbelievers, and good old Judas, one of the chosen (Jn 6:70).

Thanks for asking.

Unfortunately for you Ephesians 1 says that we are chosen for salvation
So does Romans 9
So does Romans 8
So does acts 13:48

And many more

Please try again.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Unfortunately for you Ephesians 1 says that we are chosen for salvation
So does Romans 9
So does Romans 8
So does acts 13:48

And many more

Please try again.

Right, how about you trying again. None of your claimed chapters or verse SAYS anything about being chosen for salvation. Maybe you found some in a foreign language. What would that be?

In the English, NONE of what you claim says anything close to anyone being elected for salvation.

In Eph 1, what specific verse says so, since you think so? And while you're at it, which specific verses in Rom 8 and 9 says so?

And throwing in Acts 13:48 is just pitiful. We've been through that verse ad nauseum. Nothing about God doing anything. That's just a huge assumption on your part. The context clearly shows that while the Jews rejected the message, the Gentiles "lined up" (what tasso actually means) for eternal life. iow, they accepted Paul's message gladly.

You want the verse that clearly indicates they lined up? 13:44.

 

[Skala]

Right, how about you trying again. None of your claimed chapters or verse SAYS anything about being chosen for salvation. Maybe you found some in a foreign language. What would that be?

In the English, NONE of what you claim says anything close to anyone being elected for salvation.

In Eph 1, what specific verse says so, since you think so? And while you're at it, which specific verses in Rom 8 and 9 says so?

And throwing in Acts 13:48 is just pitiful. We've been through that verse ad nauseum. Nothing about God doing anything. That's just a huge assumption on your part. The context clearly shows that while the Jews rejected the message, the Gentiles "lined up" (what tasso actually means) for eternal life. iow, they accepted Paul's message gladly.

You want the verse that clearly indicates they lined up? 13:44.

I don't think you understand what salvation actually is.

When a Bible author is talking about the concept of salvation, does he have to use the single word "salvation" before you'll believe he's talking about salvation?

It seems so. And that is sad.

 

[Jack Terrence]

And throwing in Acts 13:48 is just pitiful. We've been through that verse ad nauseum. Nothing about God doing anything. That's just a huge assumption on your part. The context clearly shows that while the Jews rejected the message, the Gentiles "lined up" (what tasso actually means) for eternal life. iow, they accepted Paul's message gladly.

You want the verse that clearly indicates they lined up? 13:44.

You need to learn some humility. Of the forty-six translations on Biblegateway NOT ONE says, "And as may as were lined up for eternal life believed." If tasso actually means "lined up," then there would certainly be some translations which read "lined up."

Please stop trying to pass yourself off as a Greek scholar and then belittling others who don't accept your odd ball Greek.

 

[Jack Terrence]

IWhen a Bible author is talking about the concept of salvation, does he have to use the single word "salvation" before you'll believe he's talking about salvation?

It seems so. And that is sad.

This is the exact same method the cultists employ. Just yesterday at CARM I posted to a Christadelphian that Paul said that Christ pre-existed in the form of God. Christadelphians deny both Christ's divinity and His pre-existence. The Christadelphian said, "Point to me where Paul used the word "pre-existed."

I replied saying,

Well, if you are looking for a word that is equivalent to our English word "pre-existed," then you couldn't prove that God preexisted. Don't be silly. You know that God pre-existed because the scripture says that He was (huparxwn). You know very well that Paul said that Jesus was (huparxwn) in the form of God. Therefore, Christ pre-existed in the form of God.

I have been trying to get FG2 to see the folly of his methods but he will not listen.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I don't think you understand what salvation actually is.

When a Bible author is talking about the concept of salvation, does he have to use the single word "salvation" before you'll believe he's talking about salvation?

It seems so. And that is sad.

What is quite sad is how my view has been so poorly understood.

Salvation is used in 3 tenses. Which tense should I explain?

 

[FreeGrace2]

You need to learn some humility. Of the forty-six translations on Biblegateway NOT ONE says, "And as may as were lined up for eternal life believed." If tasso actually means "lined up," then there would certainly be some translations which read "lined up."

Let's begin with a lexicon.
tassō

1) to put in order, to station
1a) to place in a certain order, to arrange, to assign a place, to appoint
1a1) to assign (appoint) a thing to one
1b) to appoint, ordain, order
1b1) to appoint on one’s own responsibility or authority
1b2) to appoint mutually, i.e. agree upon

The tense of tasso is such that both the middle and passive voice forms are the same. So one must look to the context to determine which voice was meant. And v.44 clearly indicates that the Gentiles "arranged themselves" in order to hear Paul the next Sabbath.

Please stop trying to pass yourself off as a Greek scholar and then belittling others who don't accept your odd ball Greek.

What's so odd ball by what the lexicon says?

 

[nobdysfool]

There used to be a poster here who claimed that with a bible and a Greek lexicon, he was the equal of any bible scholar who ever lived. I am not making that up, He actually claimed so, in so many words. He is no longer with us, after being caught in some less-than-honest moderating (yes he was a mod, too). He was Arminian through and through, although he denied it, BTW...and that book he was writing is STILL not published....

 

[Jack Terrence]

There used to be a poster here who claimed that with a bible and a Greek lexicon, he was the equal of any bible scholar who ever lived. I am not making that up, He actually claimed so, in so many words. he is no longer with us, after being caught in some less-than-honest moderating (yes he was a mod, too). He was Arminian through and through, BTW...asnd that book he was writing is STILL not published....

Yep! Not one of forty-six English translations on Biblegateway translates tasso as "lined up" in Acts 13:48. Yet Skala was treated as if he is intellectually inferior because he cites what the English translations actually say.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yep! Not one of forty-six English translations on Biblegateway translates tasso as "lined up" in Acts 13:48. Yet Skala was treated as if he is intellectually inferior because he cites what the English translations actually say.

So, one is impressed with the 46 English translators regarding one verse (Acts 13:48), yet not at all impressed with those SAME translators on another verse (Heb 2:9) which clearly state that Jesus died for everyone.

Interesting. Very interesting.

 

[Hammster]

So, one is impressed with the 46 English translators regarding one verse (Acts 13:48), yet not at all impressed with those SAME translators on another verse (Heb 2:9) which clearly state that Jesus died for everyone.

Interesting. Very interesting.

It's not the translation of Heb 2:9 that I have a problem with. It's your interpretation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
So, one is impressed with the 46 English translators regarding one verse (Acts 13:48), yet not at all impressed with those SAME translators on another verse (Heb 2:9) which clearly state that Jesus died for everyone.

It's not the translation of Heb 2:9 that I have a problem with. It's your interpretation.

What's to interpret? i am in full agreement with all 46 translators. Jesus died for everyone.

Here's a reminder of how the 46 translators rendered "pas":

EVERYONE - 25
Common English Bible
Contemporary English Version
Easy-To-Read Version
ESV
ESV Anglicized
Expanded Bible
God’s Word
Good News Translation
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Lexham English Bible
Mounce Reverse Interlinear NT
Names of God Bible
NASB
New Century Version
NET
NIRV
NIV
NKJV
NLT
NRSV
NRSV anglicized
NRSV anglicized Catholic
NRSV Catholic
The Voice
World English Bible

EVERY ONE - 3
RSV
RSV Catholic
Young’s Literal Translation

EVERY MAN - 6
21st Century KJV
ASV
JB Phillips NT
Jubilee Bible 2000
KJV
Authorized KJV

EVERY INDIVIDUAL PERSON - 1
Amplified Bible

ALL HUMANITY - 1
Complete Jewish Bible

EVERY THING - 2
Darby Translation
Douay-Rheims1899 American Ed

ALL MEN - 2
1599 Geneva
Wycliffe

ON BEHALF OF ALL - 2
Knox Bible
Orthodox Jewish Bible

EVERY PERSON’S PLACE - 1
The Message

ALL OF US - 1
New Life Version

EVERY PERSON - 1
Worldwide English NT

How in the world anyone would think these 46 translators would think that Jesus only died for some is really baffling.

If there ever was a verse that speaks to the scope of who Christ died for, Heb 2:9 is the one. What an opportunity to make it crystal clear.

54% of translations used "everyone", hardly a word that supports RT.

And none of the rest could remotely be used to support RT.

The Complete Jewish Bible renders "pas" as "all of humanity". How does that support RT? NOT.