Acts 21-28 Paul is a Messianic Jew and declares his views under oath

[BobRyan]

Well according to Christianity Today last year - we are the fifth largest Christian denomination in the world - and so I would dearly love to take the credit that we are the only ones promoting God's Bible Sabbath and God's Commandments -- but in fact I can't do that in all accuracy.

It appears that the majority of those posting in favor of the Bible Sabbath and God's Commandments are non-SDA so far on this area of the board.

What is more Christ Himself "The Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28 and
Mark 2:27 "the SAbbath was MADE for mankind" -- and
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

And the NEW Covenant "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind" speaking of the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" -- Heb 8:6-10

All speak to the point that those in favor of God's Bible Sabbath and Ten Commandments are promoting truth.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Yep. Unlike the SDA, however, he did not limit himself to just a few of the commandments, did he?

He was a Christian Pharisee - according to him.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well according to Christianity Today last year - we are the fifth largest Christian denomination in the world - and so I would dearly love to take the credit that we are the only ones promoting God's Bible Sabbath and God's Commandments -- but in fact I can't do that in all accuracy.

It appears that the majority of those posting in favor of the Bible Sabbath and God's Commandments are non-SDA so far on this area of the board.

What is more Christ Himself "The Son of Man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28 and
Mark 2:27 "the SAbbath was MADE for mankind" -- and
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

And the NEW Covenant "I will write My LAWS on their heart and mind" speaking of the "House of Israel and the house of Judah" -- Heb 8:6-10

All speak to the point that those in favor of God's Bible Sabbath and Ten Commandments are promoting truth.

in Christ,

Bob

I love your selective quotations. When you find anything that favors your argument, no matter how specious the source, you run with it. Here is a link to Wikipedia showing actual statistics. As you can see, the SDA is not even in the running.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

 

[BobRyan]

I love your selective quotations.

Thank you. I am glad you enjoyed those texts of scripture.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a link to Wikipedia showing actual statistics. As you can see, the SDA is not even in the running.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Those are not limited to actual denominations - but the Christianity Today article is.

"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

Your own link points to "Historical Protestantism - 300-400 million" where they show that indeed - the SDA church is one of the largest in that group if not the largest.

A question there about Germany - 80 Million people in Germany of which

Not religious (33.5%)
Roman Catholicism (29.5%)
Evangelical Church (27.9%)
Other Christians including Orthodox Church (3.3%)
Islam (5%)
Other Religions (0.8%)

Yet your article says the Lutheran church in Germany is over 40 million???

Details matter.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Those are not limited to actual denominations - but the Christianity Today article is.

"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

Your own link points to "Historical Protestantism - 300-400 million" where they show that indeed - the SDA church is one of the largest in that group if not the largest.

A question there about Germany - 80 Million people in Germany of which

Not religious (33.5%)
Roman Catholicism (29.5%)
Evangelical Church (27.9%)
Other Christians including Orthodox Church (3.3%)
Islam (5%)
Other Religions (0.8%)

Yet your article says the Lutheran church in Germany is over 40 million???

Details matter.

Details do, indeed, matter. The Lutheran Church in Germany does have over 40 million adherents. It is the state church of many of the former German states. The listing of the remainder of adherents is statistically divided as given. There is no error.

The SDA claim of membership is open to question as are the LDS claims. It is honestly difficult to determine actual membership statistics as many denominations count anyone who has been baptized in their denomination as being a member, even though they may never darken the doorway of the church ever again in their life. OTOH you have the house churches of China, none of which are SDA, but all of which are generally ignored in the statistics as it is impossible to determine their actual membership. Thus, the Chinese government limits official membership statistics to those of its church, the Three-Self Church, which is also not SDA.

 

[Berean777]

The 24 hour Saturday has become like God to some. In fact they revere a 24 hour day in order to show their obedience to God, yet obedience is determined according to the state of the heart and the Sabbath is applicable 24 x 7. This means our Sabbath is not limited to 24 hours in order to sanctify it, rather we should be inwardly sanctifying it through our rest with and on God. How can we define a 24 hour rest day as obedience if the law is written in our hearts.

We do not worship the ways the faithful old covenant Jews did, rather we observe the Sabbath 24 x 7, because we are indwelled by the Lord of the Sabbath. Our rest is in him and our hearts harken onto him to give us his rest. We cease from the workings of wickedness that are emnity to God, we instead observe holiness daily through the Spirit of God.

 

[Cribstyl]

Those are not limited to actual denominations - but the Christianity Today article is.

"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

Your own link points to "Historical Protestantism - 300-400 million" where they show that indeed - the SDA church is one of the largest in that group if not the largest.

A question there about Germany - 80 Million people in Germany of which

Not religious (33.5%)
Roman Catholicism (29.5%)
Evangelical Church (27.9%)
Other Christians including Orthodox Church (3.3%)
Islam (5%)
Other Religions (0.8%)

Yet your article says the Lutheran church in Germany is over 40 million???

Details matter.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/03/a-closer-look-at-seventh-day-adventists-in-america/ What's your point again? According to 2014 reports SDA make up no more that 1/2 of 1% of the US population. population.

 

[Sophrosyne]

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/03/a-closer-look-at-seventh-day-adventists-in-america/ What's your point again? According to 2014 reports SDA make up no more that 1/2 of 1% of the US population. population.

I don't see why people use statistics to prove they are "right" because in doing so they ignore all the people who are "wrong" and the statistics that "prove" they are right also prove someone else wrong too. Even if the SDA had more adherents than Catholicism it doesn't make it right just as the billion Muslims in the world are wrong according to the Bible so until the SDA pass them in members and call them wrong this rant falls on deaf ears.

 

[BobRyan]

No wonder then that so many non-SDAs affirm the TEN Commandments for NT saints - for those under the "NEW Covenant"

As noted in the OP --- topic.

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.

Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself,;Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

 

[bbbbbbb]

No wonder then that so many non-SDAs affirm the TEN Commandments for NT saints - for those under the "NEW Covenant"

As noted in the OP --- topic.

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.

Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself,;Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

There you go again, jumping to the conclusion that all of your Bible verses refer only to the Ten Commandments, when, in fact, they refer to the Law, which consists of 613 commandments, not merely the first ten of them.

 

[Sophrosyne]

There you go again, jumping to the conclusion that all of your Bible verses refer only to the Ten Commandments, when, in fact, they refer to the Law, which consists of 613 commandments, not merely the first ten of them.

They get to pick which bible verses don't refer to the Ten Commandments too, to protect them from being seen in the wrong light.

 

[BobRyan]

There you go again, jumping to the conclusion that all of your Bible verses refer only to the Ten Commandments,

There you go again imagining that all the Bible texts in the NT that include the TEN Commandments can be dissmissed

 

[bugkiller]

There you go again imagining that all the Bible texts in the NT that include the TEN Commandments can be dissmissed

Which ones include the 4th?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Eph 6:2 - "THE FIRST commandment with a PROMISE" in that "still valid unit of TEN" - is the 5th commandment

Rev 14:7 "worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a direct quote of the 4th commandment

James 2 - says what is binding is based on the "HE who said" -- not on the man-made-tradition-that-deletes.

 

[bugkiller]

Eph 6:2 - "THE FIRST commandment with a PROMISE" in that "still valid unit of TEN" - is the 5th commandment

Rev 14:7 "worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a direct quote of the 4th commandment

James 2 - says what is binding is based on the "HE who said" -- not on the man-made-tradition-that-deletes.

Where's the 4th?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Where's the attention to detail -- for the one who actually reads Eph 6:2??

Where is the quote of the 4th commandment deleted from Rev 14:7??

Where is the "HE said" of James 2 - regarding God speaking the TEN Commandments -- deleting the 4th commandment?

 

[bugkiller]

Those are not limited to actual denominations - but the Christianity Today article is.

"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

Your own link points to "Historical Protestantism - 300-400 million" where they show that indeed - the SDA church is one of the largest in that group if not the largest.

A question there about Germany - 80 Million people in Germany of which

Not religious (33.5%)
Roman Catholicism (29.5%)
Evangelical Church (27.9%)
Other Christians including Orthodox Church (3.3%)
Islam (5%)
Other Religions (0.8%)

Yet your article says the Lutheran church in Germany is over 40 million???

Details matter.

How many of them don't attend any more? Anyone who is into the statistics and reality knows they're inflated and really have no value. One of my previous pastors ask what's going on? He noticed people coming in the front door and departing very quickly thru the back door. Those people are still on the roles (statistics). Why is it that your parking lots aren't full every Sabbath? What would happen if all those statistics showed up on any given Sabbath? They might have to use Wally's parking lot. Why is the SDA book store hidden in the back of the church? Yeppers I went looking for it. Why isn't your stuff on the open market like most everyone else's?

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Details do, indeed, matter. The Lutheran Church in Germany does have over 40 million adherents. It is the state church of many of the former German states. The listing of the remainder of adherents is statistically divided as given. There is no error.

The SDA claim of membership is open to question as are the LDS claims. It is honestly difficult to determine actual membership statistics as many denominations count anyone who has been baptized in their denomination as being a member, even though they may never darken the doorway of the church ever again in their life.

SDAs take names off the books when they do not show up at church any more after a certain period of time. Few other denominations do that.

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a link to Wikipedia showing actual statistics. As you can see, the SDA is not even in the running.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members

Those are not limited to actual denominations - but the Christianity Today article is.

"In 2014, for the 10th year in a row, more than 1 million people became Adventists, hitting a record 18.1 million members. Adventism is now the fifth-largest Christian communion worldwide, after Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Anglicanism, and the Assemblies of God."
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct...ts-can-ben-carson-church-stay-separatist.html

Your own link points to "Historical Protestantism - 300-400 million" where they show that indeed - the SDA church is one of the largest in that group if not the largest.

A question there about Germany - 80 Million people in Germany of which

Not religious (33.5%)
Roman Catholicism (29.5%)
Evangelical Church (27.9%)
Other Christians including Orthodox Church (3.3%)
Islam (5%)
Other Religions (0.8%)

Yet your article says the Lutheran church in Germany is over 40 million???

Details matter.

How many of them don't attend any more?

Are you offering to "count" for us???

The total membership went up by half a million since Christianity Today reported those 2014 numbers.