Acts 21-28 Paul is a Messianic Jew and declares his views under oath

[BobRyan]

Which ones include the 4th?

bugkiller

Eph 6:2 - "THE FIRST commandment with a PROMISE" in that "still valid unit of TEN" - is the 5th commandment

Rev 14:7 "worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a direct quote of the 4th commandment

James 2 - says what is binding is based on the "HE who said" -- not on the man-made-tradition-that-deletes.

Notice how dodgy-and-evasive the response will be to Eph 6:2 telling us that the Ten Commandment unit is the one where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" and the quote of the actual 4th Commandment in Rev 14:7??

 

[bugkiller]

Notice how dodgy-and-evasive the response will be to Eph 6:2 telling us that the Ten Commandment unit is the one where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise" and the quote of the actual 4th Commandment in Rev 14:7??

Yes I notice how you try to enforce the law on the unsuspecting while the very same person you quote says very clearly we are now delivered from the law.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Yes I notice how you try to enforce the law b

by quoting parts of the new testament you don't approve of???

in this case - Eph 6:2.

Eph 6:2 - "THE FIRST commandment with a PROMISE" in that "still valid unit of TEN" - is the 5th commandment

Rev 14:7 "worship HIM who MADE the heavens and the earth the seas and the springs of water" - a direct quote of the 4th commandment

James 2 - says what is binding is based on the "HE who said" -- not on the man-made-tradition-that-deletes.

Notice how dodgy-and-evasive the response will be to Eph 6:2??

Eph 6:2 is where Paul is telling us that the Ten Commandment unit is the one where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"

And we also see a quote of the actual 4th Commandment in Rev 14:7 unlike the third commandment (do not take God's name in vain) -- not quoted at all in the NT.

 

[bugkiller]

by quoting parts of the new testament you don't approve of???

in this case - Eph 6:2.




Notice how dodgy-and-evasive the response will be to Eph 6:2??

Eph 6:2 is where Paul is telling us that the Ten Commandment unit is the one where the 5th commandment is the "First commandment with a promise"

And we also see a quote of the actual 4th Commandment in Rev 14:7 unlike the third commandment (do not take God's name in vain) -- not quoted at all in the NT.

I certainly approve of Eph 6:2. The truth is its addressing children of Christians parents. Its not showing the Christians is obligated to the law as you wish us to believe. You can only make your point by throwing out Rom 7:6 and 10:4. Really you make Paul nothing more than a tormented false prophet/teacher.

Rev 14:7 says nothing about the 4th commandment.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

I certainly approve of Eph 6:2.
bugkiller

This is a rare moment - given that Eph 6:2 points specifically to the unit of TEN - the TEN Commandments in which the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise"

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 14:7 says nothing about the 4th commandment.

bugkiller

Until you actually read Revelation 14:7 and find the 4th commandment quote there.

 

[BobRyan]

What is encouraging is that the span from Acts 21-28 gives a great view of how Paul declared his own practice "under oath" and before both Jews and gentiles starting with clarification of his teaching for his fellow Messianic Jews.



Acts 21
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law

Acts 24
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.;


Acts 26
Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come; 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles;

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening

Interesting ---and a summary of it posted here

Paul continued to keep the law until the end, many years after Jesus died.
Acts 25:8 While he answered for himself, Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Ceaser, have I offended at anything at all.

 

[bugkiller]

This is a rare moment - given that Eph 6:2 points specifically to the unit of TEN - the TEN Commandments in which the 5th Commandment is the "FIRST Commandment with a promise"

So why didn't you give me a like on it?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Until you actually read Revelation 14:7 and find the 4th commandment quote there.

It doesn't say what you pretend it says.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

It doesn't say what you pretend it says.

bugkiller

Your papal act of "quoting you" and making pronouncement - "noted".

Meanwhile...

Revelation 14:12
Ephesians 6:2
James 2:11-12
Mark 2:27
1 Corinthians 7:19

Those texts remain true --

 

[bugkiller]

Your papal act of "quoting you" and making pronouncement - "noted".

Meanwhile...

Revelation 14:12
Ephesians 6:2
James 2:11-12
Mark 2:27
1 Corinthians 7:19


Remain.

The only one quoting themselves here and frequently is the accuser.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
These were saved Jews, and they still loved the law. Why didn't James rebuke them for following an obsolete law?

 

[BobRyan]

Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
These were saved Jews, and they still loved the law. Why didn't James rebuke them for following an obsolete law?

This is the elephant in the living room.

In Gal 2:11-14 "Certain men from James" show up and Peter is moved by this group "Men from James" to separate from gentile Christians. James in Acts 21... James in Acts 15 -- is not tossing the Law of God out the window. Rather he himself is a Messianic Jew in every sense of the word.

James in Acts 21 is very interested in holding the Jewish Christian converts - and more than that - to convert even more Jews to Christianity. James and Paul in Acts 21 - are themselves - both Messianic Jews.

The writing sent out to the churches in Acts 15 does not include "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 because as James points out in Acts 15 "Moses is read every Sabbath in the Synagogues" and as we see in Acts 18:4 the GENTILES along with the Jews - are hearing GOSPEL preaching "every Sabbath in the Synagogue"

 

[BobRyan]

Rev 14:7 says nothing about the 4th commandment.

bugkiller

Until you actually read Revelation 14:7 and find the 4th commandment quote there.

It doesn't say what you pretend it says.

bugkiller

Your papal act of "quoting you" and making pronouncement - "noted".

Meanwhile...

Revelation 14:12
Ephesians 6:2
James 2:11-12
Mark 2:27
1 Corinthians 7:19

Those texts remain true --

The only one quoting themselves here and frequently is the accuser.
bugkiller

Again your logic is "illusive" as you continue to quote 'you' without a single reference to scripture - each time the irrefutable scripture is presented to you.

 

[Travis93]

I didn't even think of Revelation 14:7, but that's a good one.
Revelation 14:7 “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in themis, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[BobRyan]

I didn't even think of Revelation 14:7, but that's a good one.

Revelation 14:7 “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”

Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in themis, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Yes that is a clear quote of the Sabbath Commandment -- but notice that there is not even ONE quote of the 3rd commandment not to take God's name in vain in the NT -- not even a partial quote of Ex 20:7 in all of the NT.

So where is the nonsense argument that we should delete that Commandment? nowhere! Because everyone knows such made-up-rules about deleting what is not repeated -- is nonsense.

 

[bugkiller]

Until you actually read Revelation 14:7 and find the 4th commandment quote there.

Where? Please quote Rev 14:7 for us. We need to see if our Bibles agree.

Your papal act of "quoting you" and making pronouncement - "noted".

Where did I quote me?

Again your logic is "illusive" as you continue to quote 'you' without a single reference to scripture - each time the irrefutable scripture is presented to you.

Bob your half truths and half quotes have been shown to be false. You just pretend we post nothing.

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

Where? Please quote Rev 14:7 for us. We need to see if our Bibles agree.Where did I quote me?Bob your half truths and half quotes have been shown to be false. You just pretend we post nothing.

bugkiller

Do you think that you are quoting the Bible in that post??

When you ask me to read Rev 14:7 to you - do you have a point?

When you make these Papal pronouncements - who is supposed to fall for it?

bugkiller said: ↑
It doesn't say what you pretend it says.

bugkiller

Meanwhile -

Revelation 14:12
Ephesians 6:2
James 2:11-12
Mark 2:27
1 Corinthians 7:19

Those texts remain true --

 

[BobRyan]

This is the elephant in the living room.

In Gal 2:11-14 "Certain men from James" show up and Peter is moved by this group "Men from James" to separate from gentile Christians. James in Acts 21... James in Acts 15 -- is not tossing the Law of God out the window. Rather he himself is a Messianic Jew in every sense of the word.

James in Acts 21 is very interested in holding the Jewish Christian converts - and more than that - to convert even more Jews to Christianity. James and Paul in Acts 21 - are themselves - both Messianic Jews.

The writing sent out to the churches in Acts 15 does not include "Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5 because as James points out in Acts 15 "Moses is read every Sabbath in the Synagogues" and as we see in Acts 18:4 the GENTILES along with the Jews - are hearing GOSPEL preaching "every Sabbath in the Synagogue"

I didn't even think of Revelation 14:7, but that's a good one.
Revelation 14:7 “Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.”
Exodus 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in themis, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Yes a great example of quoting the Sabbath Commandment in the NT.

Unlike the "Do not take God's name in vain" commandment - never quoted in the NT -- yet still valid as are all TEN of the TEN Commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

With all due respect, no offense to our friends in the MJ movement, but Paul fought this belief system the most. .

Paul is a great example of a Messianic Jew.