According to Homeland Security if your prolife and...your a terrorist

[reverend C]

there is no point AC, just diversion.

ACougar for president in 2016! (or tulc, if you love coffee)

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

But so are tens of thousands of Klansman in Mississippi.... what's your point?

You do have some data that isn't from the 1960's to back up a statement like that, right?

 

[ACougar]

We could start with the Southern Poverty Law Center website and see how many hate groups they have listed for Mississippi. There are 22 active hate groups known to the SPLC in Mississippi, 2 are Black Separatists, 9 are KKK, the rest are either White Supremacist or Neo-Nazi. No shortage of public organizations, and I am quiet certain that most organizations are not public.

I grew up in Mississippi (9-12th grade Hattiesburg, Beaumont, Biloxi) and know how common Klan membership is... 2.8 million people in Mississippi, I think it's safe to guess that 1 in 200 are still affiliated in some way with a Klan group. Which means were looking at around 14K members... ok, so that's not exactly 10's of thousands but still... no shortage of right wingers looking to intimidate and terrorize.

You do have some data that isn't from the 1960's to back up a statement like that, right?

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

We could start with the Southern Poverty Law Center website and see how many hate groups they have listed for Mississippi. There are 22 active hate groups known to the SPLC in Mississippi, 2 are Black Separatists, 9 are KKK, the rest are either White Supremacist or Neo-Nazi.

But how many members do these groups have?

I grew up in Mississippi (9-12th grade Hattiesburg, Beaumont, Biloxi) and know how common Klan membership is... 2.8 million people in Mississippi, I think it's safe to guess that 1 in 200 are still affiliated in some way with a Klan group. Which means were looking at around 14K members... ok, so that's not exactly 10's of thousands but still... no shortage of right wingers looking to intimidate and terrorize.

Basically, you don't have anything to go on but a gut feeling and decades old experience.

According to Wikipedia 62% of people in Mississippi are white. Presumably white supremacy groups won't let blacks or other minorities in. I know it's a far fetched leap of logic, so bear with me here. There's about 1.8 million people who are eligible to join a white supremacist group. If we slash 40% off of your estimate to account for your egregious demographic error, that leaves us with a total of about 8500 people involved in Klan type groups.

 

[ACougar]

I can accept that there my only be 8500 people involved in Klan type groups... it would be nice to think that the numbers have droped that low in the past 25-30 years. The 10's of thousands impression came from the late 70's early 80's.The point however is that there are many right wing extremeists who use hate and intimidation... who to some extent practice terrorism. I remember seeing them in thier white robes along the side of the road when I was growing up in Mississippi. It seems silly to place all that focus on Ayers... who liked to blow up statues and buildings, but who's bombs never hurt anyone as long as you don't count the people in his organization who died trying to build bombs.

 

[DaisyDay]

But how many members do these groups have?

How many do you need to pose a terrorist threat? How many did it take to bring down the World Trade Towers (including planning and finance)?

I thought the genius of al Qaeda was that it was made up of small, barely related groups with little central direction.

 

[reverend C]

Panzer,
what is your motivation for trying to justify the rise of right wing hate groups and lone wolves? how does the conservative movement move forward by being the apologists for these people? wouldn't you want to acknowledge them and divorce yourselves from them, to maintain an appearance of seperation from them in order to aspire to a semblance of legitimacy yourselves? i do not equate a george will with the neo-nazis, but that does not mean the environment is not ideal for neo-nazi growth and recruitment. why not be part of the solution to these hate groups that are ruining your good name and come to grips with the stirring of the pot that some of the talking heads that represent conservatism are fomenting and instead support the more lucid and sober voices that your party has to offer, like a george will for example. why is he in the background of the conservative movement and people like michael savage and rush in the forefront? what are the values that you aspire to be known for?
stand with us against the surge of hate groups and lone wolves acting in your name as a conservative.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

How many do you need to pose a terrorist threat? How many did it take to bring down the World Trade Towers (including planning and finance)?

I thought the genius of al Qaeda was that it was made up of small, barely related groups with little central direction.

If you want to get really paranoid, it only took two guys with fertilizer and diesel fuel to blow up the Murrah building.

what is your motivation for trying to justify the rise of right wing hate groups and lone wolves?

What hate groups? The ones named in the DHS report?

how does the conservative movement move forward by being the apologists for these people?

What people? The Department of Homeland Security doesn't even know who they are.

wouldn't you want to acknowledge them and divorce yourselves from them, to maintain an appearance of seperation from them in order to aspire to a semblance of legitimacy yourselves?

Well, if I buy ammo, I'm a right wing extremist. Check.
If I oppose abortion I'm a right wing extremist. Check.
If I buy guns I'm a right wing extremist. Check.
If I oppose gun control legislation I'm a right wing extremist. Check.

i do not equate a george will with the neo-nazis, but that does not mean the environment is not ideal for neo-nazi growth and recruitment.

I never said it wasn't, but the DHS report focuses on "right wing extremists" not specific white supremacy groups. By contrast a similar report from the Bush administration listed specific groups and specific methods that those groups could use.

why not be part of the solution to these hate groups that are ruining your good name and come to grips with the stirring of the pot that some of the talking heads that represent conservatism are fomenting and instead support the more lucid and sober voices that your party has to offer, like a george will for example.

Because George Will is an idiot that thinks jeans are evil. Why do you think some guy that thinks jeans are evil is a good representative for Republicans?

why is he in the background of the conservative movement and people like michael savage and rush in the forefront?

Michael Savage is not a right wing extremist in any sense of the word. He's a bloviating populist that supports gun bans and yells at people. I can't stand him.

what are the values that you aspire to be known for?

Pro-self defense, opposition to abortion, opposition to criminals. I'm sorry, I meant undocumented immigrants, federalism, you know, the sorts of things that make me a right wing extremist.

stand with us against the surge of hate groups and lone wolves acting in your name as a conservative.

Why? Your Department of Homeland Security has labeled me a potential terrorist because I oppose abortion, oppose gun control, and support enforcing the law. And I've bought lots of ammunition.

 

[Allahuakbar]

Yes, but presently I'm having computer problems. I will be back.

Allahuakbar - The article of "Are all Christians Rightwing Extremists" explains how I have come to this conclusion also. If a person is labeled this in the U.S. many of them are considered conservative. These people are prolife, etc. and contain bible believing christians like me. Since we are against baby killing - somehow I'm a terrorist.

Yes, sometimes abortion clinics are blown up but what does this have to do with those who don't believe in violence and don't do terrorism at all- but all they do is believe in protecting infants. Homeland Security is painting a very broad brush or can. It sounds like the Obama administration is making war with true christians now and calling us terrorist.

Just a reminder, since you have posted a half dozen times since you said you had computer problems, that you have completely failed to provide any actual quote from this report to support your conclusion.

I suspect you never bothered to read the report, just read what others said about it, who likely did not read it either, and then based your comments on theirs. This is the problem with not examining evidence for yourself.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

the report acknowledges a truth that is being displayed in our newspapers, that right wing violence is on the rise and the environment is ripe for its growth. why do you not want to recognize this? how does it threaten you as a conservative? why do you identify with these threats to american security? what compells you to want to deflect attention from these hate groups?

Why do you try and justify things that have the potential to violate people's civil rights. I thought lefties were about protecting liberties.

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

Top House Dem is dumbfounded by this thing

Hope and change, baby.

 

[Steve Petersen]

The DHS/Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) has no specific​

information that domestic rightwing* terrorists are currently planning acts of violence

Threats from white supremacist and violent antigovernment groups
during 2009 have been largely rhetorical and have not indicated plans to carry​

out violent acts.

Most statements by rightwing extremists have been rhetorical,
expressing concerns about the election of the first African American president,​

but stopping short of calls for violent action

Here's the whole deal. Read it. Pretty sparse on specifics.

 

[reverend C]

panzer and steve,

since the report is so shy on pegging specific groups and people, why are you so convinced that it is talking about you? the report does not advocate stunting first amendment rights. you guys are being really silly in taking the report as an attack on your average joe conservative. it has nothing to do with that, except if you need an issue to hold on to because you have lost mainstream america and have been reduced to a remnant base that you are catering to.
then it makes sense, i guess.

 

[Steve Petersen]

panzer and steve,

since the report is so shy on pegging specific groups and people, why are you so convinced that it is talking about you? the report does not advocate stunting first amendment rights. you guys are being really silly in taking the report as an attack on your average joe conservative. it has nothing to do with that, except if you need an issue to hold on to because you have lost mainstream america and have been reduced to a remnant base that you are catering to.
then it makes sense, i guess.

Did you read it?

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

It's all Bush's fault.

And civil liberties officials flagged it.

 

[oldbetang]

'

No one is calling you a terrorist as far as I'm concernced. But blowing up abortion clinics is terrorism whether you want to believe it or not.

How many abortion clinics have been blown up in the last ten years? How many have been blown up in the last thirty years, for that matter?

 

[USincognito]

How many abortion clinics have been blown up in the last ten years? How many have been blown up in the last thirty years, for that matter?

The number of threats, attacks and acts of violence/property damage over the last 30 years is in the thousands.
Anti-abortion violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Panzerkamfwagen]

The number of threats, attacks and acts of violence/property damage over the last 30 years is in the thousands.
Anti-abortion violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to those statistics, there hasn't been anti-abortion related murder in over a decade.

There have been seven victims of anti-abortion violence. If you lump the death threats in with crimes of violence, there's been something of around five hundred. In order to come up with the "thousands" number, you have to lump the property crimes in with the violent crimes. You know what they say about lies and statistics though.

I hate people that commit violence against abortion clinics because it just gives the anti-abortion people more ammunition to use, but to lump everything from misdemeanors with a small fine where the police might not even arrest the person to someone going on a shooting spree in together in the interest of making abortion people appear as victims, I think is rather counter productive, especially when your statistics fail to outline how many of the crimes are committed with the purpose of shutting the abortion clinics down.

To be frank though, I don't have a lot of sympathy for a doctor (first do no harm) that kills babies for a living getting shot.

 

[USincognito]

There have been seven victims of anti-abortion violence. If you lump the death threats in with crimes of violence, there's been something of around five hundred. In order to come up with the "thousands" number, you have to lump the property crimes in with the violent crimes. You know what they say about lies and statistics though.

I'm sure it's something similar to to what is said about selection bias because I summed up what took you three sentences in one - "threats, attacks and violence/property damage" and then I linked to the wiki page for people to draw their own conclusion.

I see you have and thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[IzzyPop]

Well, if I buy ammo, I'm a right wing extremist. Check.
If I oppose abortion I'm a right wing extremist. Check.
If I buy guns I'm a right wing extremist. Check.
If I oppose gun control legislation I'm a right wing extremist. Check.

Can you point me to where is states that people that do or believe in these things are right wing extremists? I read that report a couple of times and I must have missed that.

I never said it wasn't, but the DHS report focuses on "right wing extremists" not specific white supremacy groups. By contrast a similar report from the Bush administration listed specific groups and specific methods that those groups could use.

This is a report commissioned by Bush and started by the Bush DHS.

Why? Your Department of Homeland Security has labeled me a potential terrorist because I oppose abortion, oppose gun control, and support enforcing the law. And I've bought lots of ammunition.

Once again, can you point me to where in the report it states this? Persecution complex, much?